Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: Len Clements Rants and Raves!

  1. #1
    Soapboxmom's Avatar
    Soapboxmom is online now Administrator
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Mars
    Posts
    7,931
    Blog Entries
    3

    Len Clements Rants and Raves!

    Home Other Reports News Other Exposés More Reading Contact
    Barry Minkow
    Beneath the Iceberg

    By Len Clements
    Copyright © 2011
    Part Seven
    Coenen The Enabler

    It also would have been obvious to anyone who cared to look that Tracy Coenen's agenda was far removed from any authentic fraud investigation and exposure. Coenen claims that she did not short Usana's stock in any way and had no profit motive for attacking Usana. Within her blog she stated, "I get nothing from warning consumers about these sketchy companies, other than the satisfaction that the information was made available for those who take the time to research." However, we now know she was paid between $500 and $2,500 per assignment by Minkow for her assistance in slamming Usana.86 Coenen also testified in her deposition that she was paid $50,000 by Minkow for her work on the Lennar scheme (Antar testified he was paid $30,000).87 Also, when I submitted these questions to her blog…

    1) Have you owned put options on either Usana or Herbalife within the past two years?
    2) Have you shorted the stock of either Usana or Herbalife within the past two years?
    3) Have you been compensated in any way for your participation in, and ongoing support of,
    Barry Minkow's findings related to Usana and Herbalife?

    … Coenen unleashed a long diatribe against me personally and responded with a series of "Pressing Questions for MLM Supporter Len Clements". What was conspicuously absent anywhere within her verbose reply was the word "no".

    Even if Coenen has never shorted Usana's or any other MLM company's stock, this only goes to remove just one of several unethical, or at best unprofessional, motives for her support of, and contribution to, Barry Minkow. For example, when Usana's then Executive Vice President of Asia Pacific Brad Richardson started exercising his options and selling his stock Coenen repeatedly speculated that Richardson knew of Usana's supposed illegal activity in China and was preparing to take the money and run. Or, he knew he was going to be terminated as Usana's "sacrificial lamb" to appease Chinese authorities and the SEC after their supposedly inevitable legal actions. To wit, Coenen blogged (among other accusatory comments):

    "I could be way off base here, but isn’t it possible that this guy knows all about the cheating in China and knows that it will very soon catch up with Usana… and he’s selling while his stock is still worth something? Naaaaah… I’m sure that can’t be it."

    Coenen was way off base here. We know now that Brad Richardson cashed out on his Usana stock for no other reason than he accept an offer, and promotion to President of International Operations, from Shaklee. What was also eventually discovered, by Coenen's own admission, was that she knew all along that this was the reason Richardson was selling his stock. In response I submitted this comment:

    "…if you knew this was all going on, why did you continue to promote the idea that Richardson was selling his shares pending his firing over alleged 'Cheating-in-China'? Wouldn’t also presenting the far more likely, and more innocent possibility that he was simply liquidating his holdings to avoid a conflict of interest before accepting a position with a competing company had been the more integrous and responsible thing for a professional “forensic investigator” to do? This scenario would not have incriminated Richardson or Usana in any way, but certainly that wasn’t a factor in your decision making. Your intent is to report the truth, not just dig up dirt on companies you’ve shorted– right?"

    When specifically asked by a commenter on her blog why Chinese authorities had so far taken no action, as of January, 2008, Coenen responded: "China is investigating. Obviously it may take some time before action is taken." Apparently so. Three-and-a-half years later and Usana still hasn't even been contacted by Chinese authorities, nor is there any evidence that they were ever investigating them.

    In another of many of her blog posts regarding Minkow's, and now her own, assertion that Usana was "Cheating in China", her and Steve Rotolante88, another impotent but prolific Usana antagonist who assisted Minkow in his anti-Usana campaign, discuss why Chinese authorities have taken no action, and within the context of how inept and baseless my rebuttal to this issue was. I responded within the comment section of her blog:

    "It was so funny to read how you thought my rebuttal to Minkow's China allegations 'had no substance to it' (in spite of containing overwhelming evidence [the allegations] were all based on numerous errors and fallacies), but then you and [Steve] admit to being so stumped as to why Barry's Cheating-In-China case went no where. Um, maybe because... it was based on numerous errors and fallacies?"

    After that comment was submitted, Tracy Coenen, who claims to be a devout defender of the First Amendment and staunch supporter of freedom of speech, and who has railed against those who have tried to censor her online commentary and criticisms, deleted all of my comments and criticisms and blocked my ability to post within her blog (as she has done to others89). She also never addressed any of my deleted commentary and criticisms, because her conduct was indefensible. She was clearly called out as nothing more than an ultra-biased, paid propagandist for Barry Minkow, so rather than defend herself she cowardly deleted anything that would incriminate her.

    After Minkow's sentencing Coenen has made only one post to her blog related to Minkow, which was nothing more than the text of the press release by the United States Attorney's Office.90 Quite uncharacteristically, no commentary was included by Coenen. She also disabled the public commentary function. The very next blog entry is a video of Coenen describing her superior investigative techniques that are, "more efficient and more accurate" than other investigators.

    "Isn't it ironic?"
    – Alanis Morissette


    Part 8: The Past Leaves Clues

    Part 9: The Beginning of the End – Again

    Part 10: Not All Were Fooled

    Endnotes


    Copyright © 2011 MarketWave, Inc. ALL WORLDWIDE RIGHTS RESERVED.
    __________________________________________________
    Lenny, Lenny, Lenny, we all know Minkow is a convicted felon and liar. He shorts stocks every chance he gets. That being said his many investigations have always been litigated to be factually correct as far as I am aware. The problem is he uses the facts his investigations yields to make money illegally off of the company's stock. Completely sleazy to be sure, but it does not in any way involve any of the other fraud investigators who have worked for him and been paid the fair going rate for doing so.

    Tracy Coenen has never shorted any stock and only did the specific forensic accounting investigation she was paid to do. She has no control over Minkow. That is like blaming me because someone cons an MLM scammer and rakes in a fortune by telling the scammer that they can get my posts about them removed. The one falsely promising to remove my posts can run off with the $$$$ and laugh all the way to the bank as they were simply using my research to blackmail the MLM scammer. That in no way makes me guilty of anything, except what I am always guilty of -- sharing the facts and truth.

    Tracy Coenen's work is impeccable. You, Lenny, are just in a snit because her work has led to a number of sleazy MLMs having their very troubling numbers exposed and analyzed and you were not able to foil it. You can't effectively refute any of her work so you are resorting to slime attacks in your usual long winded speculation filled diatribes. Coenen and I post the facts, truth and our opinions. We cannot be held responsible for those being misused behind our backs.

    And, Lenny, Coenen owns her page. She has the right to entertain comments as she so desires. Here I and my fine co-admins here have full editorial control. Unlike Scam we do not accept bribes or threats to remove content either.

    I am surprised you, Lenny, haven't been sued. Just where do you have any proof that Coenen was ever unprofessional, unethical, supporting Minkow and contributing to Minkow. She was compensated for preparing financial reports and did so. Those reports as I said were impeccable and I am sure you have nothing with which to challenge anything in them.

    Soapboxmom




  2. #2
    Soapboxmom's Avatar
    Soapboxmom is online now Administrator
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Mars
    Posts
    7,931
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: Len Clements Rants and Raves!

    Here are the court decisions and facts:

    Quatloos! • View topic - Fraud Discovery Institute's Analysis of USANA

    Now, let's see what Lenny says:
    The Dark Side Beckons

    In March of 2007 Sam Antar paid Barry Minkow at least $150,0007 to publicly attack Usana Health Science (USNA), along with hedge fund managers Whitney Tilson who paid Minkow $40,000 and Anthony Bruan who paid him $10,000. Both Minkow and Antar (and presumably the two hedge fund managers) purchased put options on Usana before Minkow's first hit piece was published. Usana's stock dropped 15% that day, and Minkow eventually profited $61,000 from his puts. Minkow's attacks on Usana were perpetrated by way of press releases, professionally produced YouTube videos, and a website called "CheatinginChina.com". Minkow would go on to create attack sites such as MediFraud.net to attack MediFast (MED) and PrePaidIllegal.com to attack PrePaid Legal (PPD). He also hired MLM critic Robert FitzPatrick and Tracy Coenen to provide the ordnance for his Usana attacks, who again gratuitously, fully and unconditionally supported and promoted Minkow and his anti-Usana blitzkrieg. The Wall Street Journal followed suit. This resulted in an investigation of Usana by the SEC and NASDAQ as well as three separate class action lawsuits – derivative, shareholder, and distributor – all of which found no merit to even a single Minkow charge. In fact, in the shareholder suit, which was dismissed on summary, the court ruled the plaintiff's case was not even "plausible". Usana did sue Minkow. Although their libel charge was thrown out8, the stock fraud charge was allowed to go forward. Usana privately settled their case with Minkow agreeing to a court order requiring him to cease & desist his attacks. Financial terms, if any, were undisclosed. However, it would be very unusual for both parties to not disclose something if there were nothing to disclose.
    Lenny has left out quite a bit of pertinent information and twisted the facts in his usual Mensa boy fashion. The judge dismissed the libel claim as Lenny acknowledged, but what that means in English is that Minkow's asssertion that the USANA products were overhyped and overpriced were correct. USANA coudn't refute anything in Minkow's report, so therefore Coenen's and Fitzpatrick's reports that were submitted to Minkow were dead on.

    USANA was ordered to pay Minkow's cost of court to the tune of 143 grand. As Minkow knew he was in trouble on the stock manipulation charge he setlled out to end the case. USANA agreed to drop it if he removed his materials. The fact he agreed to remove the materials was related to the fact he didn't want to spend hundreds of thousands more fighting the stock manipulation allegations which he knew he would go down for. The judge had heard all the evidence on those materials he had posted and ruled in his favor and awarded him attorney fees on that issue. So, Minkow, Coenen and FitzPatrick produced completely factual and truthful reports. Minkow just couldn't resist manipulating the stock and shorting it to make a pretty penny, Lenny!

    Soapboxmom

  3. #3
    Soapboxmom's Avatar
    Soapboxmom is online now Administrator
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Mars
    Posts
    7,931
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: Len Clements Rants and Raves!

    More of Lenny's rant:
    I want to make clear here that this is not meant to be just another beat down of Barry Minkow. It is more an exposé of the ignorance and/or incompetence of those who were in a position to expose, and ultimately end, the several stock fraud and extortion schemes that Minkow was perpetrating long before Lennar, and perhaps save his church and members of his congregation from harm as well. Had Tracy Coenen, Robert FitzPatrick, Jon Taylor, Steve Rotolante, Sam Antar, Gary Weiss, Bill Lobdell, Zac Bissonnette, Michael Webster, Wesley Serra, or any of the other enabling fraud "investigators" bothered to stop gratuitously and selfishly aggrandizing this man long enough to take a look beneath Minkow's iceberg they could have easily found what I found. Nor is this meant as some sort of self-aggrandizing exposé of my great fraud investigative prowess. The methods I employed in discovering Minkow's ongoing fraud involved little more than asking a few questions, getting both sides of the story, and applying some common sense. Anyone could have easily uncovered Minkow's true agenda – if they only wanted to. Instead they chose to forgo any semblance of journalistic integrity and fully supported Minkow's scheme. They not only directly contributed to his propaganda, they repeatedly praised and promoted Minkow's attacks within their own blogs and websites. Some surely salivated over the media-bestowed credibility Minkow possessed that they so desperately craved. This symbiotic relationship with Minkow would provide FitzPatrick, Coenen, Taylor and Rotolante their Trojan Horse to, finally, get their anti-MLM baloney into the halls of the SEC and any other legal authority that had previously ignored them, but who was now paying attention to Minkow. Or, like Antar, they personally profited from Minkow's scheme, innocent shareholders be damned.

    "It is becoming clear that there were two Barry Minkows…
    The bad Barry is in fact a sociopath who apparently thinks nothing of making up a story to reduce his sentence, misappropriating church funds, misusing agency relationships, and the like."
    – Lennar co-defendant Nicolas Marsch
    That is a bunch of poppycock, Lenny.

    Remember your scamming friend Jack Weinzierl. He and Tim Darnell had around 700 reps in their adjudicated pyramid scheme that sued the Dallas Better Business Bureau and lost. The lawyer who was a rep, Duane Kidman, and got in a losing argument with me should have been able to get the court records and properly assess what happened in the case Where Tim Darnell's Advantage Conferences lost in Summary Judgment. That brainless idiot continued to defend Tim Darnell and totally distort the outcome of the case when he could have obtained the source documents and learned the truth.
    Texas_attorney2000 said:
    The details concerning the case: Advantage Conferences LLC vs. Better Business Bureau of Metropolitan Dallas, Inc., et al., Case No.05-11461 in the Judicial District Court of Dallas County, Texas is not clearly stated by 71.164.236.55's commentary.
    There was a Motion for Summary Judgment, filed by Advantage Conferences, but was denied. The case was ultimately dismissed before trial.
    There was not any decisive winner, nor was there any ruling that Advantage Conferences is a scam or that Tim Darnell is a scammer. These appear to be conclusions not found by a court of law, rather a conclusion of an angry individual; pity.
    Although unconfirmed: the claims, accusations, and inaccurate statements of the preceding commentary mirror those made by Heather Dobrott of Garland, Texas (aka Soapboxmom), a known Advantage Conference antagonist. Ms. Dobrott is known to have rallied a small number of followers to proliferate her personal conquest against Advantage Conferences.
    If materials of wikiHow are to be edited for accuracy, this should include commentaries and personal attacks.
    I answered:
    Texas Attorney, I have the court papers in my hand. Why don't you actually read the source documents and quit listening to Timmy boy. Judge Mary Murphy granted the Motion for Summary Judgement and I have confirmed that Tim was forced to pay by a Writ of Garnishment. The BBB's attorneys at Jackson Walker will be able to confirm that for you. You should also be aware that former reps are pursuing all legal avenues available to them and I will do everything I can to help them.
    I am simply out to protect the public and I would hardly call sharing the truth attacks. Folks need to know the facts before they lose thousands to this venture. Tell Timmy lying about BBB membership, trademarks, copyrights, service marks, refunds and earnings etc. is not how honest folks do business.
    Tim is claiming I have stalked him day and night at his home and recreational events and that I am sending him death threats. Yet, he says he has no idea what I look like. I went to the Allen, TX police and asked them to investigate me. Why is it Tim hasn't reported any of this to the authorities? They can't confirm delusions!
    It is truly sad to see that an attorney in Texas would push this kind of venture. Duane Kidman, may I suggest you get the facts.
    CAUSE NO. 05-11461 ADVANTAGE CONFERENCES, LLC, PLAINTIFF, IN THE DISTRICT COURT vs. § § § § § § § § § § § 14TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU OF METROPOLITAN DALLAS, INC. AND JON TAYLOR, DEFENDANTS. DALLAS COUN1Y, TEXAS ORDER GRANTING SUMMARY JUDGMENT On this 25th day of September, 2006, came on for hearing Defendant Better Business Bureau of Metropolitan Dallas, Inc.'s Motion for Summary Judgment ("Motion") filed on August 21, 2006. The Court, having reviewed the Motion, Plaintiffs Response to the Motion, Defendant's Reply, and all timely filed pleadings, and all competent, timely filed summary judgment evidence, and having heard the arguments of counsel, is of the opinion that the Motion should be GRANTED in all respects.
    IT IS THEREFORE ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED that Defendant Better Business Bureau of Metropolitan Dallas, Inc.'s Motion for Summary Judgment filed on August 21, 2006 is hereby GRANTED in all respects. IT IS FURTHER ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED that Plaintiff Advantage Conferences, LLC take nothing from Defendant Better Business Bureau of Metropolitan Dallas, Inc. by reason of its action and that Defendant Better Business Bureau of Metropolitan Dallas, Inc. recover from Plaintiff its costs of court, for which let execution issue.

    All relief as between Advantage Conferences, LLC and Better Business Bureau of Metropolitan Dallas, Inc. not expressly granted herein is denied. Signed this 2; day of October, 2006. Judge~ Mary Murphy

    ORDER GRANTING SUMMARY JUDGMENT - PAGE 1
    According to Lenny the Advantage Conferences reps should have detected the fraud going on and stopped it. But, even an experienced, licensed attorney took Darnell at his word.

    Advantage Conferences also had an experienced accountant, Lane Schollenbarger, was involved in many of Tim Darnell's schemes and spending a great deal of time with him and the office people. He never uncovered the financial fraud going on.

    So, Lenny, if my fellow scambusters didn't have access to Minkow's personal and business financial records, just how were they to detect and stop his flagrant stock shenanigans? There is not one shred of work done by the many you name (excluding Minkow, of course) that you have shown to have any inaccuracies in it. You are gunning for all the legitimate investigators and scambusters out there because they are doing a first rate job of exposing MLM for the farce it truly is. The vast majority of participants are losing money and the health MLMs out there are deceiving the public with phony science, overhyped claims and blatant attempts to disguise the horrific financial losses suffered by participants.

    You are brave to again be spouting off about them (and I take it you are including me as well though I wasn't named in your ridiculous diatribe) supporting Minkow's scheme (the stock manipulations?) I demand to see your evidence of that. Your running at the mouth is just making you look incredibly foolish.

    By the way, have you finally paid your overdue Mensa membership fees? You still list that on your site and no doubt are still bragging about it across the net as you are quite the blowhard.

    Soapboxmom

  4. #4
    littleroundman is offline Administrator
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    16,699

    Re: Len Clements Rants and Raves!

    Len Clements Rants and Raves!


    Why, yes........yes he does


    ad nauseum, ad infinitum
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  5. #5
    Doc Bunkum's Avatar
    Doc Bunkum is offline Senior Scambuster
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    723

    Re: Len Clements Rants and Raves!

    Barry Minkow
    Beneath the Iceberg
    By Len Clements
    Copyright © 2011

    Part Seven
    Coenen The Enabler


    Too bad Tracy has disabled comments on her blog regarding the Barry Minkow story.

    I was going to give her a heads up on Lenny's Part Seven - Coenen The Enabler in case she wasn't aware of it.

    I wanted a chuckle as I'm sure she'd rip Lenny a new one - again.

    Maybe I'll send her an e-mail with a link just in case she missed Lenny's latest installment of War & Peace.

  6. #6
    Soapboxmom's Avatar
    Soapboxmom is online now Administrator
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Mars
    Posts
    7,931
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: Len Clements Rants and Raves!

    I love Coenen's response to Len's shenanigans. I coudn't resist sharing the whole thing:

    Pressing questions for MLM supporter Len Clements : Sequence Inc. Fraud Files Blog
    Pressing questions for MLM supporter Len Clements

    Posted on June 23rd, 2008
    Today I got an email from Len Clements, the multi-level marketing evangelist and career college graduate who has been a vocal supporter of Usana Health Sciences (NASDAQ:USNA).
    He published five disjointed “rebuttals” to the various reports, videos, and press releases put out by Barry Minkow and Fraud Discovery Institute about Usana. These rebuttals appeared to be a great source of pride to Len, but were almost completely ignored by the media. Even better, they were totally ignored by Usana, the entity he was so fervently defending.
    Not one to be deterred, Len is writing yet another rebuttal to Barry and FDI, this one on both Usana and Herbalife Ltd (NYSE:HLF). And he has been busy researching!
    In the last eleven days, Len Clements has made 92 visits to my website. He’s spent hours combing through blog posts and articles on this site.
    The purpose of Len’s rebuttal is twofold: To attack the allegations of cheating in China (Didn’t that story come out over eight months ago? What’s taking so long?) and to prove a profit motive on the part of the many independent investigators, laboratories, attorneys, and professors involved in analyzing and reporting facts about Usana and Herbalife.
    Len’s even got a folder on his computer desktop entitled “Coenen,” in which he saves copies of certain pages of this website. He’s been perusing my biographies, credentials, the fraud training services I provide, and the articles I’ve written. He’s been searching my site for: usana puts, usana short, usana, SEC is not that stupid, Bradford Richardson, and usana china.
    Len’s email today asks if I’ve been paid to do any work on Usana or Herbalife, or if I’ve shorted either stock or bought puts for either stock.
    It seems to me there are more pressing questions. I hope Len is prepared to answer some hard questions about Usana and Herbalife. Until Len can answer these questions, his “rebuttal” to all the information produced by Barry and FDI is worthless.
    Here are my top five questions for Len:

    • How is it that three unrelated investigators in China, who didn’t know each other and never spoke to one another, independently came to the same conclusion: That Usana is actively engaged in violating China’s laws against multi-level marketing?
    • Can you refute the affidavit of Ricardo Hollander, the former Director of Venezuela and Columbia for Herbalife, which reports blatant violations of Venezuelan laws and the Herbalife ethics policy?
    • How does one explain the fact that Gregory Probert, the former president of Herbalife, was able to sell over $8.6 million of stock in 2008 alone, at an average price of over $44 a share… While the stock is now only in the high $30′s since the revelation that he lied about his credentials. Who has a profit motive, when $8.6 million is on the line and apparently dependent on the market believing management is honest?
    • How many lab tests must prove high lead levels before the companies admit the results are true? A highly regarded laboratory (Bodycote) has tested product after product from Herbalife (and now Usana), and the results consistently show a high level of lead in violation of California’s Proposition 65. (Where are those mystery test results from Herbalife that claim to prove there aren’t dangerous levels of lead?)
    • Extensive research results recently published by Robert FitzPatrick show again that the vast majority of MLM participants never make enough in commissions to even cover their minimum required purchases from the companies. His study showed that in 10 MLMS, the bottom 99% of participants received less than $10 per week in commissions. How is that explained when recruits are lured in with promises of financial freedom if they just work hard enough?

    There are plenty of additional questions that I could pose to Len about
    ….executives lying about their credentials,
    …representations that “Barry lied” with no actual support for those accusations produced by Usana,
    Usana insiders unloading stock for several millions of dollars of profits shortly before the release of Barry’s first report,
    …tens of millions of dollars of profits made by officers and directors of both Usana and Herbalife through the sale of stock in the last couple of years alone,
    …the bogus offer by Myron Wentz to take Usana private (which resulted in a nice little bump up in the stock price),
    …and Bradford Richardson methodically exercising his options and immediately selling for a tidy little profit of $2.4 million before quitting (as predicted).
    I could go on, but you get the picture. I hope this “rebuttal” is going to rebut all of the independently verified information above (good luck), and I hope it’s going to explain all these instances of lying and inconsistencies and insider profits from sales of stock.
    Ready? Go!
    __________________________________________________ ____________________
    Lenny are you just a little obsessed with Coenen? All this time has passed and he is still desperately trying to paint a picture of all his scambusting rivals having a profit motive when it is so painfully obvious we have none. Some are doing paid expert reports and some blog as volunteer consumer advocates. We all are doing a superb job of refuting the long-winded diatribes of MLM die hard supporter Clements.


    Keep blathering Lenny and we will keep laughing as you desperately try to be the savior of all things MLM! Having Kerry Hein and Chris Doyle cheering you on well, Lenny (or should I say Dark Helmet):


    Soapboxmom

  7. #7
    littleroundman is offline Administrator
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    16,699

    Re: Len Clements Rants and Raves!

    Quote Originally Posted by DaMom
    Lenny are you just a little obsessed with Coenen? All this time has passed and he is still desperately trying to paint a picture of all his scambusting rivals having a profit motive when it is so painfully obvious we have none. Some are doing paid expert reports and some blog as volunteer consumer advocates. We all are doing a superb job of refuting the long-winded diatribes of MLM die hard supporter Clements.


    Keep blathering Lenny and we will keep laughing as you desperately try to be the savior of all things MLM! Having Kerry Hein and Chris Doyle cheering you on well, Lenny (or should I say Dark Helmet):
    Be nice, now.

    Think about it,

    what else is the li'l fella gonna talk about ??

    He HAS to talk about everyone else and everything else.

    Should he talk about his highly successful career ?

    His million dollar mansion ?

    The thousands of happy victi.....err....clients ?

    The success stories of whatever water/pills/potions/miracle cures/magic wand/fountain of youth MLM product du jour he's currently flogging ?

    See what I mean ?

    His only other option is to shut up, and we all know THAT ain't gonna happen any time soon.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  8. #8
    Doc Bunkum's Avatar
    Doc Bunkum is offline Senior Scambuster
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    723

    Re: Len Clements Rants and Raves!

    I'll admit I'm not up to date on this whole USANA thing.

    But I found a hilarious piece by Lenny.

    Apparently in his rather lengthy Rebuttal to FDI "Cheating in China" Report he refers to Barry Minkow an "ex-felon".

    bahbahblack on Yahoo Finance found that funny:

    Is barry minkow an "ex-felon"?

    Lol
    What's even funnier is Lenny's response:

    Okay blahblah, I'll bite...

    Why is that funny to you?

    Len
    Tracy, on her blog, comments on that boner by Lenny:

    I did get a kick out of Len referring to Barry as a “former felon,” and then having no idea why that was funny. Do you think he’s figured it out yet?
    Good question!

    I wonder if Mr. Mensa has figured out yet why we're laughing at him!

  9. #9
    Whip's Avatar
    Whip is offline Anonymous. As are you all
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    5,734

    Re: Len Clements Rants and Raves!

    Quote Originally Posted by littleroundman View Post
    Len Clements Rants and Raves!


    Why, yes........yes he does


    ad nauseum, ad infinitum
    He really is a jilted lover since Minkow rejected his advances.

    And when is he ever going to get around to debunking that wand if he keeps wasting his time with this trolling?

  10. #10
    wserra is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    143

    Re: Len Clements Rants and Raves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Soapboxmom View Post
    More of Lenny's rant:
    ... It is more an exposé of the ignorance and/or incompetence of those who were in a position to expose, and ultimately end, the several stock fraud and extortion schemes that Minkow was perpetrating long before Lennar, and perhaps save his church and members of his congregation from harm as well. Had Tracy Coenen, Robert FitzPatrick, Jon Taylor, Steve Rotolante, Sam Antar, Gary Weiss, Bill Lobdell, Zac Bissonnette, Michael Webster, Wesley Serra, or any of the other enabling fraud "investigators" bothered to stop gratuitously and selfishly aggrandizing this man long enough to take a look beneath Minkow's iceberg they could have easily found what I found. Nor is this meant as some sort of self-aggrandizing exposé of my great fraud investigative prowess
    Of course not.

    This is pretty damn funny, in a couple of ways.

    First of all, to the extent they care, Coenen, FitzPatrick, Taylor, Rotolante (whoever that is), Antar, Weiss (WTI), and Lobdell (WTI) are probably scratching their heads and saying, "Who is this guy Serra?" The only person on that list with whom I have had any contact at all is Michael Webster, a Toronto lawyer who has posted several times on Quatloos. I guess Lenny just gathered up names of people with whom he has crossed swords and threw them together.

    Second, I all but predicted what eventually happened to Minkow, years before it happened. From Quatloos:
    Quote Originally Posted by wserra 7-22-07
    Well, it appears that USANA agrees with what I posted four months ago that "the merits of the alleged defamation would have been a hard sell had Minkow not shorted USANA stock".

    USANA just filed an amended complaint which, IMHO, is much better written and much more focused than the original. Instead of just ranting about how unfairly Minkow was treating poor old USANA, it attributes the entire action to the oldest and most jury-friendly motive there is - money. It concentrates on the details of Minkow shorting USANA stock, and mentions certain others (identified for the moment only as John Does) doing the same. It drops many of the silly things Michael Webster and I commented on.

    I think Minkow may have a problem here.
    Quote Originally Posted by wserra 3-8-08
    I cannot resist pointing out that, when the suit was first brought a year ago, I wrote above that Minkow's hubristic stock machinations were going to cause him problems.
    Please note the dates. Does anyone here remember Clements being that specific? I suppose he may have been, and the points just got lost in his verbose rodomontades. Effective writer, Lenny.

    Finally, our last exchange on Quatloos - his post, my response - are worth a quick read. He hasn't posted there since then. I don't think Lenny likes me.
    "A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
    - David Hume

  11. #11
    Doc Bunkum's Avatar
    Doc Bunkum is offline Senior Scambuster
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    723

    Re: Len Clements Rants and Raves!

    I see Stephanie has done the right thing as mod on scam:

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask View Post
    Well, Len will be able to answer the questions himself. I'm allowing him to return, at least for the time being.

    Personally, I think if he was as smart as he thinks he is, he would have just ignored this site and any discussions about him or his product.

    But, apparently he is a glutton for punishment and wants to return.

    You all play nice. He can't ban you, BUT I can. So, let's keep things on topic.

    Lady Mod

    .
    All right!

  12. #12
    littleroundman is offline Administrator
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    16,699

    Re: Len Clements Rants and Raves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Bunkum View Post
    I see Stephanie has done the right thing as mod on scam:

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    Well, Len will be able to answer the questions himself. I'm allowing him to return, at least for the time being.

    Personally, I think if he was as smart as he thinks he is, he would have just ignored this site and any discussions about him or his product.

    But, apparently he is a glutton for punishment and wants to return.

    You all play nice. He can't ban you, BUT I can. So, let's keep things on topic.

    Lady Mod
    All right!
    The funny thing is, he probably WILL return and, worse, he probably WILL continue his role as self appointed spokesman for Multi Level Marketing.

    What's even funnier is, he'll actually believe he's doing his and the Multi Level Marketing industry some good by doing so.

    Encourage him, I say.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  13. #13
    Len Clements is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    10

    Re: Len Clements Rants and Raves!

    Quote Originally Posted by wserra View Post
    Of course not.

    This is pretty damn funny, in a couple of ways.

    First of all, to the extent they care, Coenen, FitzPatrick, Taylor, Rotolante (whoever that is), Antar, Weiss (WTI), and Lobdell (WTI) are probably scratching their heads and saying, "Who is this guy Serra?" The only person on that list with whom I have had any contact at all is Michael Webster, a Toronto lawyer who has posted several times on Quatloos. I guess Lenny just gathered up names of people with whom he has crossed swords and threw them together.

    Second, I all but predicted what eventually happened to Minkow, years before it happened. From Quatloos:

    Please note the dates. Does anyone here remember Clements being that specific? I suppose he may have been, and the points just got lost in his verbose rodomontades. Effective writer, Lenny.

    Finally, our last exchange on Quatloos - his post, my response - are worth a quick read. He hasn't posted there since then. I don't think Lenny likes me.
    I know that dropping this little scrap of troll food will make the board go apeshit for a few days, but since hardly anyone reads this board, well, I really don't care. Bon appétit.

    Wes, I will give practically anything, anything, to get you on a recorded conference call, before a live audience. I'd love to see how cocky you are when all the little hiding places and safety nets afforded you on a message board are removed. I know you've already declined this offer once before - in spite of my having only a two year Associates Degree and you having an advanced degree in law. As a litigator you are basically a professional debater, yet you still ran from the opportunity to confront me in a live debate. So what will it take? Under what conditions will you face me?

    Len Clements

    And BTW Heather, before you use my second screen name as an excuse to ban me, your lost password function doesn't work.

  14. #14
    littleroundman is offline Administrator
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    16,699

    Re: Len Clements Rants and Raves!

    Lenny, Lenny, Lenny,

    Can't you get it through your tiny mind that nobody here WANTS to ban you.

    We WANT you to come here and post.

    That's why people are continuing to push your buttons.

    They KNOW, with absolute certainty you won't be able to resist coming here and posting more of your drivel.

    It makes the job of those who find Multi Level Marketing in general and self appointed spokesmen specifically, repugnant Sooooooooooo much easier.

    All one has to do is point any potential MLMer to one or all of your diatribes and, B-I-N-G-O, mission accomplished.

    Rest assured, Lenny, other than reviewing any self promoting URLs in your posts (just as the forum software does for any new poster with <5 posts) you won't be censored.

    In fact, if you fail to keep up a steady flow of cra.....err.......new postings, we'll keep prodding your ego until you return.

    The hundreds of thousands of hardworking MLMers out there must be ecstatic having the great Lenny Clements as the poster child for their industry.

    As for the members of MLM.com,

    WOOHOO,

    they must be positively orgasmic every time their industry is on the receiving end of a free Len Clements forum rant.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  15. #15
    Doc Bunkum's Avatar
    Doc Bunkum is offline Senior Scambuster
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    723

    Re: Len Clements Rants and Raves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Len Clements View Post
    Wes, I will give practically anything, anything, to get you on a recorded conference call, before a live audience. I'd love to see how cocky you are when all the little hiding places and safety nets afforded you on a message board are removed. I know you've already declined this offer once before - in spite of my having only a two year Associates Degree and you having an advanced degree in law. As a litigator you are basically a professional debater, yet you still ran from the opportunity to confront me in a live debate. So what will it take? Under what conditions will you face me?

    Len Clements
    Lenny, tell the truth for once and let people know exactly why Wes declined your offer to debate in your living room.

    It had nothing to do with you having "only a two year Associates Degree" and he having an advanced degree in law.

    Here's exactly why Wes didn't want to get involved in your nonsense:

    Quote Originally Posted by wserra
    Horsepucky. I refused to engage in a debate hosted in your living room, where you control the inputs, the recording and just about everything else. I similarly would not agree to an open-ended debate with you in any live forum concerning the MLM industry. You make your living as an MLM distributor and writer. I am a lawyer whose practice has nothing to do with any commercial matters, let alone specifically with MLMs. I have no doubt that you could pull all sorts of supposed statistics out of your hat, which I would need time to investigate before commenting. I'm perfectly comfortable discussing the law of pyramid schemes, or specific ones such as USANA - but, as to the specific ones, only after I have the time to investigate. That actually is why a forum such as this one is less histrionic and more analytical than anything live - because both sides have the time to investigate the respective claims.
    Maybe you should inquire of him if he'd like to debate the law of pyramid schemes, or specific ones such as USANA, instead?

    I'm sure with your two year Associates Degree from Heald College and 155 Mensa tested IQ you'd be more than up to the challenge.

  16. #16
    Soapboxmom's Avatar
    Soapboxmom is online now Administrator
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Mars
    Posts
    7,931
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: Len Clements Rants and Raves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Len Clements View Post
    I know that dropping this little scrap of troll food will make the board go apeshit for a few days, but since hardly anyone reads this board, well, I really don't care. Bon appétit.

    Wes, I will give practically anything, anything, to get you on a recorded conference call, before a live audience. I'd love to see how cocky you are when all the little hiding places and safety nets afforded you on a message board are removed. I know you've already declined this offer once before - in spite of my having only a two year Associates Degree and you having an advanced degree in law. As a litigator you are basically a professional debater, yet you still ran from the opportunity to confront me in a live debate. So what will it take? Under what conditions will you face me?

    Len Clements

    And BTW Heather, before you use my second screen name as an excuse to ban me, your lost password function doesn't work.
    Welcome back, lad. I apologize for not responding sooner. I was in court on a little matter with a pal of yours. As The savior of the entire MLM industry your voice is vital here. Tim Darnell and Jack Weinzierl are simply not capable of taking us on. And thanks to those lying clowns the industry is taking quite a beating as all the facts they tried to sweep under the rug are being archived here. Quite a voluminous records, I might add.

    If you were such a brilliant debater, Lenny you would not want a live debate. You would want your winning words to be well researched and posted here so MLMers for years to come would be inspired by your greatness! I for one love to research and dig up facts. A live debate takes away that opportunity to explore all the angles. And, we have so many lovely things to discuss at length, Lenny!

    Soapboxmom

  17. #17
    littleroundman is offline Administrator
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    16,699

    Re: Len Clements Rants and Raves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Len Clements View Post
    I know that dropping this little scrap of troll food will make the board go apeshit for a few days, but since hardly anyone reads this board, well, I really don't care. Bon appétit.
    Oh, I dunno:

    I wouldn't mind betting you'd give up one of your spherical reproductive organs for that many "hardly anyones" reading your Marketwave MLM apologist site.

    Gee,

    who'd a thunk it.

    A self proclaimed MLM guru inserting his foot into his mouth.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  18. #18
    littleroundman is offline Administrator
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    16,699

    Re: Len Clements Rants and Raves!

    Hot off the wire from MLM Advocate Len Clements Market Wave Report #204, Bethany College is now offering an accredited college course in Multi-Level Marketing.



    BUT WAIT !!

    WHAT'S THIS ??


    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  19. #19
    JustTooMuchTime is offline Senior Scambuster
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,456
    Blog Entries
    128

    Re: Len Clements Rants and Raves!

    Re: Bethany - If they get extra credit for recruiting other students into the class, they're going to reach market saturation pretty darn fast.

  20. #20
    littleroundman is offline Administrator
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    16,699

    Re: Len Clements Rants and Raves!

    Quote Originally Posted by JustTooMuchTime View Post
    Re: Bethany - If they get extra credit for recruiting other students into the class, they're going to reach market saturation pretty darn fast.
    Are there such things as "residual credits" ??

    Do students get their course for free if they enroll 2 who enroll 2 etc, etc ???
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  21. #21
    kschang is offline Senior Scambuster
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    866

    Re: Len Clements Rants and Raves!

    Mr. Clements is a very good seller, but he's also very good at avoiding questions he doesn't want to answer.

    I engaged him on a comment discussion on Sisel over at behindmlm.com. He basically came in and posted a bunch of stuff about people don't really read comp plans, they just want to know which is 'better', easy bullet point comparisons, like "this shared 6 levels instead of 5!", "that one has a car bonus and this one doesn't!" When I tried to press him on "why have a complicated comp plan when people don't even understand it?" He never came back.

    I think his heart is in the right place, but it's out to PROTECT MLM from scams, not out to bust scams in general.

  22. #22
    kschang is offline Senior Scambuster
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    866

    Re: Len Clements Rants and Raves!

    Len Clements just posted his "podcast"... It's a whole HOUR long.

    http://www.marketwaveinc.com/AudioLi...86-6-12%29.mp3

    On the other hand, I'd say this podcast is actually pretty good. He mainly talks about the "posers" in the industry, the FAKE LEADERS that basically bullsh__ed their way to the "top". Of course, he had to bash Minkow and Fitzpatrick and Taylor and so on at the beginning. He's wordy, he always have plenty of anecdotes ("I remember the time when we were...."... "That was in the '90's...." ) but actually this episode is not cheerleading at all. :)

  23. #23
    Whip's Avatar
    Whip is offline Anonymous. As are you all
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    5,734

    Re: Len Clements Rants and Raves!

    Quote Originally Posted by kschang View Post
    Len Clements just posted his "podcast"... It's a whole HOUR long.

    http://www.marketwaveinc.com/AudioLi...86-6-12%29.mp3

    On the other hand, I'd say this podcast is actually pretty good. He mainly talks about the "posers" in the industry, the FAKE LEADERS that basically bullsh__ed their way to the "top". Of course, he had to bash Minkow and Fitzpatrick and Taylor and so on at the beginning. He's wordy, he always have plenty of anecdotes ("I remember the time when we were...."... "That was in the '90's...." ) but actually this episode is not cheerleading at all. :)
    So he was talking about himself once again. lol.
    He is a colossal ass. Did you know he actually had to test the 'amega wand' to determine (convince) himself it was a scam?

  24. #24
    littleroundman is offline Administrator
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    16,699

    Re: Len Clements Rants and Raves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Whip View Post
    Did you know he actually had to test the 'amega wand' to determine (convince) himself it was a scam?
    Hey, be nice.

    It's not easy to earn the "Clem Lemons Seal of Approval" you know.

    Well, actually, it is.

    All you have to do is add "only available through MLM" and, BINGO, you've got your seal.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  25. #25
    kschang is offline Senior Scambuster
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    866

    Re: Len Clements Rants and Raves!

    Uh, no. He wasn't talking about himself. :D He didn't name any names either.

    The problem is he claims to be a skeptic (be skeptical of the leaders you choose to follow, many are posers!), but he doesn't use any of the skeptic's methods in nailing fallacies. So he's a "fake skeptic", so to speak.

    That "test the wand" thing is a prime example. A skeptic would never fall for that. It's dramatic, but sample size of one is scientifically worthless. It's something a promoter would try.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Disclaimer: Opinions expressed on this website are solely those of their respective authors.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42