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Thread: Say What???

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    Doc Bunkum's Avatar
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    Say What???

    So I'm looking to bring a vehicle from the US into Canada.

    I'm over at the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) site to see what the regulations and requirements are.

    They start with this rather interesting piece of information:

    Importing a Vehicle Into Canada

    If you plan to import a vehicle into Canada, you should be aware that it has to comply with Canadian import laws. The vehicle must meet the requirements of the CBSA, Transport Canada and the Canadian Food Inspection Agency before it can be imported.

    The Canadian Food Inspection Agency???

    A car?

    I can see this is going to be a rather interesting process!

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    littleroundman is offline Administrator
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    Re: Say What???

    I wanna meet the guy from the Food Inspection Agency who does the taste test on your vehicle.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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    Re: Say What???

    Quote Originally Posted by littleroundman View Post
    I wanna meet the guy from the Food Inspection Agency who does the taste test on your vehicle.
    I DON'T...!

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    Re: Say What???

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Bunkum View Post
    So I'm looking to bring a vehicle from the US into Canada.
    Why would you want to do that? Most of the cars in the US aren't made here anyway. I have a Ford. Most of the parts are from Mexico, the car was assembled and shipped from Canada.
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    Re: Say What???

    Quote Originally Posted by Unsaved Trash View Post
    Why would you want to do that?
    AZ or TX vehicles are rust free for one thing.

    Antiques - there's a huge market to choose from at good prices.

    But I'm looking for a specialized vehicle and the market north of the 49th is rather limited from what I can find online or at dealer lots.

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    Re: Say What???

    What are you looking for Doc? I know my way around a car or two.
    "Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes...
    Because then it doesn't matter, you’re a mile away and you have his shoes!"

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    Re: Say What???

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
    What are you looking for Doc? I know my way around a car or two.
    Appreciate that, Mike.

    Actually, what I'm looking for is a low mileage high top wheelchair van.

    No, not for me - business.

    Lot's of good buys down in Florida and Arizona.

    But getting the sucker back across the border is a bitch.

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    A Life Aloft is offline fled troglodyte invasion
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    Re: Say What???

    Try flying a plane from Canada to the US. We did a Ferry flight last year for a client who purchased a Leer in Canada and wanted it flown down here. Holy bejebus the paperwork on the Canadian side!! We used an experienced international broker and between all of us it took several weeks to complete and then we were still held up for two days in Winnipeg. Really nice city though. Rather enjoyed that part as I had never been there before.

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    Re: Say What???

    Quote Originally Posted by A Life Aloft View Post
    Holy bejebus the paperwork on the Canadian side!! We used an experienced international broker and between all of us it took several weeks to complete and then we were still held up for two days in Winnipeg.
    Did you have to get approval from the Canadian Food Inspection Agency?

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    Re: Say What???

    I think a Food Inspection was the only thing we didn't need. lmao I saved the list of documents and procedures needed. Keep in mind that this procedure started several weeks before we actually flew to Canada to get the aircraft.

    Section 50 of the Canada Transportation Act, the Carriers Information Regulations
    Paragraph 86(1) (i) of the Canada Transportation Act, 'Regulations Amending the Air Transportation Regulations
    File Statement 2 (I,II,III,IV,V,F) with the Aviation Statistics Centre.
    Plus: a certification to conformity to the type design specified in the Canadian Type Certificate or Transport Canada accepted Type Certificate.
    a list of any major modifications and major repairs approved by the country of export and embodied on the aircraft.
    a list of all applicable airworthiness directives or equivalent notices, issued by the country of export, indicating which have been complied with.
    It is imperative that all major repairs and modifications embodied on the aircraft be reviewed early in the importation process. This will ensure that there is adequate time to bring all repairs and modifications up to Transport Canada standards. The issue of Limited Supplemental Type Certificates, Repair Design Approvals etc. may be required.
    Copy of the Application form 24-0043 Note: Fill out as per Appendix A of Standard 507.
    Copy of the weight and balance, equipment list and electrical load analysis Note: This shall include a copy of the last actual aircraft weighing report and subsequent amendments and addendums.
    Importation worksheet Maintenance and Manufacturing Staff Instructions (MSI) 26
    Copies of the appropriate portions of the maintenance Records Note: This shall include copies of newly opened Canadian Airframe, Engine and Propeller Logbooks and copies of foreign logbooks as required.
    List of Modifications Note: This shall include a copy of all Major Modification And Repair Reports, FAA 337 Forms, Supplemental Type Certificate’s Limited Supplemental Type Certificate’s etc. All repairs and modifications must be approved as per CAR 571.
    List of applicable Airworthiness Directives Note: This shall include all Canadian Airworthiness Directives and all AWD’s applicable from country of manufacture.
    Current aircraft times and cycles
    Verification of all life limited and TBO parts and components
    Engine data respecting last overhaul, HSI Inspection etc.
    Details of any special Canadian requirements Note: These “Special Requirements” will be listed in the aircraft Type Certificate.
    Copy of the aircraft maintenance schedule Note: This will include a Transport Canada approved Maintenance Schedule Approval if the aircraft is Private Operator Passenger Transportation or Commercially operated. Private aircraft will comply with Appendix B of Standard 625. All aircraft shall comply with Standard 625 Appendix C requirements.
    Details of deficiencies noted during the inspection
    Copy of the work report required to bring the aircraft into compliance
    Details of aging aircraft/ supplemental structural inspection programs etc.
    Additional Information Note: This shall include a copy of the current Certificate of Registration, coversheet of current Flight Manual etc.
    Copy of Type Certificate that was utilized Note: This shall include Aircraft, Engine and Propeller type Certificates.
    Current EAC certfificate and inspection performed in the last 30 days.
    Parts C of A, C of R and insurance paperwork must be in order and current.
    Aircraft must be de-registered in Canada and re-registered with the FAA.(C of A ... MSI-26 & a delegate)
    Copy of approved CDN ferry permit.

    Notes from Broker: Flying from Canada to US you will need to give between 2hrs and 48hr prior notice of the intention to cross the border to the arrival airport AND you must to arrive within 15min of your ETA. COPA's advice is to get the badge number of everyone you speak to. Make sure everyone onboard has a passport, current FAA licences including ATP, file a flight plan and get your x-ponder code. Bring the Customs Inspection Certificate and sign-off with you and present the Bill of Sale. (note - we had to pass both customs and immigration inspections)

    What is even more horrendous, is that this Broker along with other Ferry companies/Brokers have now all suspended all Ferries from Canada in November of last year due to Canada's Minister of Citizenship & Immigration Interpretations' on immigration/work laws all Ferry Flights Origination and/or Ending in Canada until they obtain the required residency permits for US pilots, which they STILL have not been able to obtain. We did our flight in September of 2010.

    Then we had to undergo a full customs inspection upon landing at LAX and present the piles of paperwork to them. I also spent several days reading the FARS (FAA regulations) regarding bringing an aircraft to the US from Canada and making a checklist. Good grief, that was fun.

    We even had to file an airport of deplanement form with Canada that included Airport code
    Arrival date (month / day). And, an End of Flight form since we took a layover of one night on the way back in Kansas. lol

    Then there was (still have a copy of that also) the United States of America and Canada Agreement of Air Transport Agreement that was only 18 pages long that we had to go over and check off.

    That was most likely my first and last Ferry trip from Canada to the US, needless to say. I am just glad I decided not to bring my dog along as he would probably still be in Canada. lol
    Last edited by A Life Aloft; 02-13-2011 at 01:53 PM.

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    Re: Say What???

    I still remember this one weekend I spent in Minneapolis many years ago when I was much younger and not as smart as I am now.

    I ended up at this Kruse Auto Auction. They were the big name in autos back then before Barrett-Jackson.

    Anyways, I had been drinking and somehow thought it would be fun to bid on this older Cadillac that was crossing the block.

    To make a long story short, I ended up being the winning bidder to the tune of around $10K or so which was a fair amount back then. I spent the weekend toodling around Minni with the car, and when Monday rolled around and I sobered up, I realized I had a problem.

    So I had to fly back home, get a one way trip permit, insurance, deal with customs, then fly back to Minni, get the car then drive back home.

    Needless to say, that was an expensive weekend.

    But I learned a valuable lesson - don't go to auctions if you've been drinking.

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    Re: Say What???

    Quote Originally Posted by A Life Aloft View Post
    Try flying a plane from Canada to the US. We did a Ferry flight last year for a client who purchased a Leer in Canada and wanted it flown down here. Holy bejebus the paperwork on the Canadian side!! We used an experienced international broker and between all of us it took several weeks to complete and then we were still held up for two days in Winnipeg. Really nice city though. Rather enjoyed that part as I had never been there before.
    LOL, when I was flying the Mooney for the cable company in Washington state, the owner wanted to fly up to a convention in Kamloops. (This was before all the terror stuff, so passports not required). Anyway, I dropped him off at the airport and took off for home. Guess what...? It was dark out and I was cruising along enjoying it because I love flying at night. Luckily I had my radio tuned to ATC because I get an "unidentified Aircraft please respond" transmission. OOPS, Canada requires flight plan clearance to fly at night...! Luckily the controller let me file from in the air rather than other less convenient solutions...
    Last edited by laidback; 02-13-2011 at 02:34 PM. Reason: forgot a word

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    Re: Say What???

    Quote Originally Posted by laidback View Post
    LOL, when I was flying the Mooney for the cable company in Washington state, the owner wanted to fly up to a convention in Kamloops. (This was before all the terror stuff, so passports not required). Anyway, I dropped him off at the airport and took off for home. Guess what...? It was dark out and I was cruising along enjoying it because I love flying at night. Luckily I had my radio tuned to ATC because I get an "unidentified Aircraft please respond" transmission. OOPS, Canada requires flight plan clearance to fly at night...! Luckily the controller let me file from in the air rather than other less convenient solutions...
    Too funny. Now it's required 24/7. Everything is tracked coming and going over the border. These days you'd find a couple of F-18's on your wings. Not a pretty scenario, I imagine. I heard of one guy who had that happen a few years back and his response was to raise his arms and hands up over his head while at the controls. lmao Must have given the AF pilots a real laugh. I don't think the FAA was laughing though and he most likely got his ass in a real wringer over that. From what I read, he was a fairly new Corporate pilot flying a Citation. I also enjoy night flying very much. Peaceful isn't it? Gives one time to think and reflect. I used to love being over the Pacific at night.
    Last edited by A Life Aloft; 02-13-2011 at 03:21 PM.

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    Re: Say What???

    Quote Originally Posted by littleroundman View Post
    I wanna meet the guy from the Food Inspection Agency who does the taste test on your vehicle.

    NO crumbs in the car please

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    Re: Say What???

    Quote Originally Posted by Unsaved Trash View Post
    Why would you want to do that? Most of the cars in the US aren't made here anyway. I have a Ford. Most of the parts are from Mexico, the car was assembled and shipped from Canada.
    You can thank the UAW for that. The Fusion and Fiesta are built in Mexico and have very high quality ratings. Ford tried to make a deal with the UAW and basically told them here is where we need to be to be competitive in the segment. The UAW I guess thought they were bluffing. Ford wanted to keep the jobs in Detroit but the UAW shot themselves in the foot. Hence, this is why you see more and more cars and trucks being built in Mexico.

    Ford is not the only one that does this. Several Gm and Dodge trucks are built down south from those of us in the states. The labor unions are killing this country. Im sorry again to hijack this thread. Seems like Im on a roll tonight.
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    Re: Say What???

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Haskell View Post

    The labor unions are killing this country.
    Actually, you are incorrect. The Walmart types of businesses are what is killing this country. They don't pay a living wage and with unemployment as it is, we have to supplement the workers with food stamps, we pay for their healthcare because these businesses are too cheap to do so, they have no retirement program, and that is what is killing the country. People are forced to work for these low paying jobs because there isn't anything else left. It's pathetic. And add to the fact that this country doesn't put a limit on imports from China and other countries that don't pay shit, don't care about their own people, and put out a bunch of pure crap, THAT is another problem. What it all boils down to isn't the unions, it's the United States government. They aren't doing their job.

    I can remember my oldest son once asked me while in grade school exactly what the government was. I said it was of the people and by the people. What a load that is now. It's all about greed. I for one have taken a stand and refuse to shop at Walmart and stores that are not union represented when there is an alternative. Fortunately here in So.Cal., there are a lot of union stores. That is where you will find me and the people that really care. I'm supporting the companies that choose to pay their employees a living wage. And for the record, I have never purchased a foreign owned automobile company's car and likely never will.

    Furthermore, a few years back the major supermarket chains here would not negotiate a fair contract with the union. The strike lasted for months on end. It took nearly 2 years for the supermarkets to regain the business they lost from the consumer. These consumers went to Costco, independent grocers, etc. And the end result? Our groceries are no more expensive here than in most parts of the country that are not union represented. Kroger pays checkers over $20 per hour here with full benefits. In non-represented states, the pay is slightly over minimum wage, no benefits and the food prices are nearly identical if not more. Sorry, but your argument is shot.
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    Re: Say What???

    I would take your first point one step further UT.

    I'm a great believer in the observation "that's what happens"

    It's that time when all philosophizing and all "woulda, shoulda, couldas" count for nothing and bare facts are all that count.

    Retailers such as Walmart couldn't do what they do WRT cheap imports if a greater majority of "ordinary" citizens didn't buy the products.

    It could be argued that the retailers are only responding to what the consumer "wants" or "demands" but the bottom line is, they're only selling what people are buying.

    In my "that's what happens" observation what will happen is with the passage of time, there won't be enough paying jobs left in Western countries to allow consumers to even purchase imported products, no matter how cheap they are.

    Not in the next 5 years, perhaps, but IM(very)HO that scenario is inevitable without a MASSIVE change in Western consumer attitudes.

    If people cannot adjust their thinking to spend a few more minutes or a few more dollars supporting their country, then "that's what happens"
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    Re: Say What???

    LRM, it isn't a matter of "that's what happens" any longer. It's "that's what has happened."
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    Re: Say What???

    Quote Originally Posted by Unsaved Trash View Post
    LRM, it isn't a matter of "that's what happens" any longer. It's "that's what has happened."
    That may be entirely true,

    You have to remember, however, that I'm in Australia, and, as any primary school child knows, we're at least 10 years behind the rest of the civilized world
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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    Re: Say What???

    Quote Originally Posted by Unsaved Trash View Post
    Actually, you are incorrect. The Walmart types of businesses are what is killing this country. They don't pay a living wage and with unemployment as it is, we have to supplement the workers with food stamps, we pay for their healthcare because these businesses are too cheap to do so, they have no retirement program, and that is what is killing the country. People are forced to work for these low paying jobs because there isn't anything else left. It's pathetic. And add to the fact that this country doesn't put a limit on imports from China and other countries that don't pay shit, don't care about their own people, and put out a bunch of pure crap, THAT is another problem. What it all boils down to isn't the unions, it's the United States government. They aren't doing their job.

    I can remember my oldest son once asked me while in grade school exactly what the government was. I said it was of the people and by the people. What a load that is now. It's all about greed. I for one have taken a stand and refuse to shop at Walmart and stores that are not union represented when there is an alternative. Fortunately here in So.Cal., there are a lot of union stores. That is where you will find me and the people that really care. I'm supporting the companies that choose to pay their employees a living wage. And for the record, I have never purchased a foreign owned automobile company's car and likely never will.

    Furthermore, a few years back the major supermarket chains here would not negotiate a fair contract with the union. The strike lasted for months on end. It took nearly 2 years for the supermarkets to regain the business they lost from the consumer. These consumers went to Costco, independent grocers, etc. And the end result? Our groceries are no more expensive here than in most parts of the country that are not union represented. Kroger pays checkers over $20 per hour here with full benefits. In non-represented states, the pay is slightly over minimum wage, no benefits and the food prices are nearly identical if not more. Sorry, but your argument is shot.
    We will agree to dis agree. The auto undustry is proof. the UAW is on its way out. They have out lived their usefullness. Hence, Meicanan buitl Fords and Gms and Dodges are the norm these days. Get used to it. lI love Detroit as much as the next guy but business is busness.

    Its about making money and Ford is doing it in a big way these days. Gm and Chrysler are makeing combacks. I love American companies that make combacks. The unions are killing everybody and Ford is taking operations overseas for a reason. They are just being smart. Like it or not the quality is there and the price is right. Ford went to the UAW and they delcined. Idiots. Ford did the same with the Fiesta. Again Idiots. So take the UWA and shove it. I have no use for them.

    They are killing this country and I stand by this.
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    Re: Say What???

    Quote Originally Posted by A Life Aloft View Post
    Too funny. Now it's required 24/7. Everything is tracked coming and going over the border. These days you'd find a couple of F-18's on your wings. Not a pretty scenario, I imagine.
    Happened up here last year.

    Some guy in the Aviation program at the local college got pissed at his girl friend, so he stole a Cessna from the local flying club and flew it across the border into American airspace.

    Two F-16 fighter jets were dispatched to track the plane - and the state capitol building in Madison, Wis. was evacuated as a precaution.

    The guy finally touched down on some back road in Missouri and tried to run away.

    Needless to say, the Americans weren't impressed.

    I believe he's still in the slammer some place in the States.

    If he'd have shot his girlfriend he likely would have been in less trouble.

    Plane Stolen From College Lands In Missouri

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    Re: Say What???

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Bunkum View Post
    Happened up here last year.

    Some guy in the Aviation program at the local college got pissed at his girl friend, so he stole a Cessna from the local flying club and flew it across the border into American airspace.

    Two F-16 fighter jets were dispatched to track the plane - and the state capitol building in Madison, Wis. was evacuated as a precaution.

    The guy finally touched down on some back road in Missouri and tried to run away.

    Needless to say, the Americans weren't impressed.

    I believe he's still in the slammer some place in the States.

    If he'd have shot his girlfriend he likely would have been in less trouble.

    Plane Stolen From College Lands In Missouri
    Some things defy logic, ya know? I'm trying to understand the thinking,( if any),(Leon to self,"I'm mad at my girlfriend, I think I'll steal a plane.")
    Yep, that qualifies for the "Say, What?' thread.

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    Re: Say What???

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Bunkum View Post
    But I learned a valuable lesson - don't go to auctions if you've been drinking.
    That should always be a rule of thumb I'd say.


    I'll add more more thing to keep in mind if you're bringing a U.S. spec vehicle into Canada, be sure it has, or can be upgraded to Canadian specs first. Things like DRL's and whatnot.
    "Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes...
    Because then it doesn't matter, you’re a mile away and you have his shoes!"

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    Re: Say What???

    Quote Originally Posted by laidback View Post
    Some things defy logic, ya know?
    Something a about that story always had me wondering too - maybe the pilots here can answer it.

    How the heck do a couple of F-16 fighter jets fly along side a Cessna?

    Me thinks they would drop out of the sky at that speed and altitude.

    I'm probably wrong, but it just seems like that's what would happen.

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    Re: Say What???

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Bunkum View Post
    Something a about that story always had me wondering too - maybe the pilots here can answer it.

    How the heck do a couple of F-16 fighter jets fly along side a Cessna?

    Me thinks they would drop out of the sky at that speed and altitude.

    I'm probably wrong, but it just seems like that's what would happen.
    They would have to put down their gear, bring out full flaps and then slog along in "slow flight" with nose high and they could about match the cruise speed of a C172. It would be a bit nerve racking because the F-16 would be sitting on the ragged edge of a stall at all times.

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