lutarians very own "Cash gifting is cool" thread

[PPBlog]

Posts that argue that the investigators concentrate on the organizers and that ordinary promoters may have little or nothing to fear send precisely the wrong message. The reality of cash-gifting is that the prey quickly becomes the predator.

These schemes are destructive, often encouraging prospects to charge cash to the limits of a credit card, hand the money to the top of the pyramid and await a return of 700 percent. They also are dominated by serial disingenuousness, if not a subculture whose inhabitants are taught (or learn by rote) to play dumb when the cops come knocking. Another problem is whack-a-mole. A scheme gets shut down and one immediately pops up to replace it.

Among the core dangers is that people who turned over $5,000 to "earn" $35,000 in return may become increasingly desperate if their payout does not materialize. In response, they may ramp up efforts to encourage others -- including loved ones and friends -- to charge to the limits of their credit cards. When that happens, the promoters are every bit as culpable as the organizers -- i.e., the "ordinary promoter" who is told he/she has nothing to fear from a prosecution standpoint just did the same thing as the organizers.

Of course, the organizers often have other lines in the stream in search of a large fish. That explains how Hank Needham, for example, can shift from promoting cash-gifting to promoting the 1-percent-a-day AdSurfDaily Ponzi scheme to becoming a "manager" of ClubAsteria, which purported to be a humanitarian enterprise that paid between 3 percent and 8 percent a week.

The message in cash-gifting schemes these days is that it's all about humanitarianism, all about people helping other people to recognize the magical high tide that will lift all boats.

It's dangerous. Plain and simple.

EMG (Finanzas Forex) wasn't a cash-gifting scheme, but the outcome was the same. The returns never materialized. The ordinary promoters then were told that, if they wanted to get their money out, they had to recruit new members and pocket their cash. There was a "humanitarian" angle in that one, too.

Some of the marks were told that proceeds were being directed to help kidnapping victims in South America.

PPBlog

[scratchycat]

I was using that as an example. You guys seem to go after anyone that joins a program that is a scam no matter who they are. Join a scam and you are not a victim, just a scammer yourself. That seems to be the motto of a few of you.

Actually, that is true. If you join up with this stuff and try to get others involved are you not doing the same thing as the person who hooked you into this scheme? Now if a person finally realizes "I have been taken!" and gets out of it, then starts exposing it for the scam it is that actually makes them a scam-buster rather than a scammer. IMO

[lutarian]

Well Mr. Low Self Esteem,

I already posted my point. Learn how to read.

So than, little cybertroll,

If your intentions are so pure and honest, why have you then hijacked yet ANOTHER thread about cash gifting and cash gifters falling foul of the law and its' accompanying attorney generals' warning ??

We have generously created your very own personal thread in which you can spout your nonsense to your hearts' content.

Do we have to send you to the naughty corner with all the other bad li'l cybertrolls ??

[lutarian]

Exactly my point. This is why people should not be called out as scammers unless they they truly are. Certain people on this forum are to free with their accusations.


QuUOTE=Lil Ol' Radical Me;35516]And who is to be judge and jury of someone's intent or motivation for joining these schemes? You? The lady that runs the hairdresser across the road? LRM? Me?

The law is quite clear and doesn't distinguish between innocent and not so innocent members. The courts MAY do so, but they dont have to. The law permits their prosecution and the fact that, to date, it hasnt been general practice doesn't mean it won't ever be. Zeek Rewards and the Receiver's claw backs may well be an interesting example of how far down the food chain they are going to go. It seems to get further and further down each time.

You missed the point in an earlier post - there are cases (ebay and others) where innocent victims HAVE been prosecuted. Unfair? maybe. Permissible by law? YES

Law enforcement is wising up daily about how schemes are run, especially those promoted on the internet. What USED to happen is no indicator that it is what may happen in the future (including the near future)[/QUOTE]

[lutarian]

Once again. I never said they were legal. Most are victims, not scammers. The scammers actually bring in 98% of the people.

This is a very well written by the way.

Posts that argue that the investigators concentrate on the organizers and that ordinary promoters may have little or nothing to fear send precisely the wrong message. The reality of cash-gifting is that the prey quickly becomes the predator.

These schemes are destructive, often encouraging prospects to charge cash to the limits of a credit card, hand the money to the top of the pyramid and await a return of 700 percent. They also are dominated by serial disingenuousness, if not a subculture whose inhabitants are taught (or learn by rote) to play dumb when the cops come knocking. Another problem is whack-a-mole. A scheme gets shut down and one immediately pops up to replace it.

Among the core dangers is that people who turned over $5,000 to "earn" $35,000 in return may become increasingly desperate if their payout does not materialize. In response, they may ramp up efforts to encourage others -- including loved ones and friends -- to charge to the limits of their credit cards. When that happens, the promoters are every bit as culpable as the organizers -- i.e., the "ordinary promoter" who is told he/she has nothing to fear from a prosecution standpoint just did the same thing as the organizers.

Of course, the organizers often have other lines in the stream in search of a large fish. That explains how Hank Needham, for example, can shift from promoting cash-gifting to promoting the 1-percent-a-day AdSurfDaily Ponzi scheme to becoming a "manager" of ClubAsteria, which purported to be a humanitarian enterprise that paid between 3 percent and 8 percent a week.

The message in cash-gifting schemes these days is that it's all about humanitarianism, all about people helping other people to recognize the magical high tide that will lift all boats.

It's dangerous. Plain and simple.

EMG (Finanzas Forex) wasn't a cash-gifting scheme, but the outcome was the same. The returns never materialized. The ordinary promoters then were told that, if they wanted to get their money out, they had to recruit new members and pocket their cash. There was a "humanitarian" angle in that one, too.

Some of the marks were told that proceeds were being directed to help kidnapping victims in South America.

PPBlog

[lutarian]

This is for littleroundman and everyone else on this thread.

You started this thread littleroundman and than YOU just had to mention my name within your post. I saw this and posted. Here is my post.

"Actually this is an obvious scam. The true scammers were the ones that ran it and I am sure said whatever they had to say to bring in the rest. However, just because someone joined their little scam does not make them an actual scammer. It makes them ignorant of the fact they were involved in a scam.

Now, once again. I don't defend scam programs. I defend people that have NO CLUE they are involved in a scam program and yet they are called out as a scammer."

So no, I did not hijack there thread. You mentioned me so I posted and AGREED with you just in case you did not read....again.

[lutarian]

A scammer is someone that intentionally scams people. Just because someone is in a scam program does not make them a scammer.

I know this has nothing to do with cash gifting but here is an analogy. Everyone that shops at Walmart is a crook. Why? Walmart is involved in illegal and unethical practices so if you shop there you are part of it. You don't know they are? How is that possible? Their have been documentaries about it, tons of law suites, etc. Now...does that make sense to you?

Actually, that is true. If you join up with this stuff and try to get others involved are you not doing the same thing as the person who hooked you into this scheme? Now if a person finally realizes "I have been taken!" and gets out of it, then starts exposing it for the scam it is that actually makes them a scam-buster rather than a scammer. IMO

[lutarian]

I also know nothing about a Sergeant Schultz.

If you read the link she showed "lutarian" was asking for information about certain people on this forum. There was no conversation from "lutarian" about anything but that.

By the way. The powers that be now have you in their sites.

Then try THIS false accusation on for size, although there could possibly be some truth to it. "Who resurrected the immortal Sergeant Schultz and how in Sam Hill did he steal lutarians cybertroll handle?" (I KNOW...NOTHING) Boy, a nail couldn't have been harder than it was by whomever weilded the keystroke that hit Post Quick Reply. I'm going to hereby apologize and retract my previous statement of dechiphering lutarians posts as Blah Blah. BlahBlah-BlahBlahBlah, as his last post was worthy of only one Blah. From now on, those posts will be dechiphered as Duh Duh. DuhDuh-DuhDuhDUUUHHH. pantherdad>>> <<<lutarians last 7 posts

[littleroundman]

"luterian" = master of the false analogy.

"Walmart" is not illegal.

"Cash Gifting" IS illegal.

A person can interact with "Walmart" and not be involved in anything illegal.

A person CANNOT interact with "cash gifting" and not be involved in something illegal.

Got any names of people whose "lives we've ruined" yet, "lutarian" ??

[lutarian]

I am a former WalMart supervisor. Yes, Walmart is involved in highly illegal and unethical practices. I am not saying that people that shop there are crooks. I was using that as an example. READ.

I also see you ignored the fact that YOU mentioned my name in this thread BEFORE I ever posted and than when I did post I actually AGREED with you about the program in mention being a scam.

You sure like to re-direct don't you?

You really think I am going to give you any information on victims of programs that got even more screwed over by you posting them on here? Tell you what. You give me your real name and address along with PHH information and I will do just that.

"luterian" = master of the false analogy.

"Walmart" is not illegal.

"Cash Gifting" IS illegal.

A person can interact with "Walmart" and not be involved in anything illegal.

A person CANNOT interact with "cash gifting" and not be involved in something illegal.

Got any names of people whose "lives we've ruined" yet, "lutarian" ??

[littleroundman]

And 'round and 'round we go.

"lutarian" making assertions then failing to back them up with any evidence.

So far, all we have is the word of some random internet cybertroll that any of the things he's said have actually occurred and a whole pile of false analogies.

Carry on, "lutarian" you're doing a much better job of making yourself look silly than I could ever do.

Oh, and, BTW, cash gifting is still illegal and people who participate in it are committing a criminal activity AND as the topic of this thread points out, another cash gifting fraud has been busted.

[lutarian]

Let's see here. You brought me up on this forum and than I posted stating I agree that the program was a scam.

Evidence? You want people's information than you give me information.

My analogies are not false.

I never said cash gifting was legal did I? I actually agreed with you about the one you mentioned being illegal. I am curious as to why you never read fully what I post and you try to twist things to your will.

You are a sad individual and very silly in your own right as you never listen.

And 'round and 'round we go.

"lutarian" making assertions then failing to back them up with any evidence.

So far, all we have is the word of some random internet cybertroll that any of the things he's said have actually occurred and a whole pile of false analogies.

Carry on, "lutarian" you're doing a much better job of making yourself look silly than I could ever do.

Oh, and, BTW, cash gifting is still illegal and people who participate in it are committing a criminal activity AND as the topic of this thread points out, another cash gifting fraud has been busted.

[littleroundman]

O.K. then,

I guess we're left with only 2 choices.

Either we believe the word of some fly-by-night blow in, or we decide his/her accusations are nothing but more hot air.

Personally, I'd be inclined to go with the hot air theory, based solely on "lutarians" past performances.

[lutarian]

Interesting how you keep ignoring the FACT that you mentioned ME in the start of this thread and all I did was agree with the scam your talked about.

So what accusations do you believe are nothing but hot air?

As far as my past performances. You simply don't read or are so arrogant that you can't see anything except what you wish to believe.

O.K. then,

I guess we're left with only 2 choices.

Either we believe the word of some fly-by-night blow in, or we decide his/her accusations are nothing but more hot air.

Personally, I'd be inclined to go with the hot air theory, based solely on "lutarians" past performances.

[pantherdadX2]

With at least 10 "I have no idea"(s), "I have no clue"(s), "I don't know"(s), and "I know nothing"(s) in his last 10 posts, it seems as though General Burkhalter and Colonel Klink have finally given Sergeant Shultz his walking (or trolling) papers. Unfortunately for us, he's managed to bumble and stumble his way onto this thread.

[littleroundman]

Err, taken a look around lately, "lutarian" ???

You're not in your house, you know.

You're here by the good graces of those behind the forum, you have no "rights" other than those the administration gives you.

There are no social workers here, no counsellors to protect your fragile ego.

YOU choose to come here, YOU choose to act as you do, YOU choose to make accusations and YOU choose to make threats.

You want to tug the tigers' tail ???

Fine by us.

Just don't expect the tiger to sit back and do nothing.

Don't like it here ???

Feel free to take the necessary steps to solve YOUR problem.

[lutarian]

I have a fragile ego now? Oh really? LOL!! You are a very sad littleround man thinking you know me.

Once again. YOU mentioned me on this thread with your FIRST post. I replied AGREEING with the scam program you mentioned and you then did what you do best. Ignore facts and re-direct.
No admin gives me any rights so don't try and act like you are all that.

You are the tiger? I must be the lion.

You have the issues. You choose to ignore that on this thread all I did was agree with you and than you fired back in your typical ignorant way.

Sad littleroundman.

Err, taken a look around lately, "lutarian" ???

You're not in your house, you know.

You're here by the good graces of those behind the forum, you have no "rights" other than those the administration gives you.

There are no social workers here, no counsellors to protect your fragile ego.

YOU choose to come here, YOU choose to act as you do, YOU choose to make accusations and YOU choose to make threats.

You want to tug the tigers' tail ???

Fine by us.

Just don't expect the tiger to sit back and do nothing.

Don't like it here ???

Feel free to take the necessary steps to solve YOUR problem.

[lutarian]

You must specialize in false accusations.

You obviously did not read a thing that lutarian posted if you think he knew any of these people. You are truly showing your ignorance. Go back and read everything and you will see that all lutarian was looking for was additional information on littleroundmand and PHH.

With at least 10 "I have no idea"(s), "I have no clue"(s), "I don't know"(s), and "I know nothing"(s) in his last 10 posts, it seems as though General Burkhalter and Colonel Klink have finally given Sergeant Shultz his walking (or trolling) papers. Unfortunately for us, he's managed to bumble and stumble his way onto this thread.

[scratchycat]

I am a former WalMart supervisor. Yes, Walmart is involved in highly illegal and unethical practices. I am not saying that people that shop there are crooks. I was using that as an example. READ.

I also see you ignored the fact that YOU mentioned my name in this thread BEFORE I ever posted and than when I did post I actually AGREED with you about the program in mention being a scam.

You sure like to re-direct don't you?

You really think I am going to give you any information on victims of programs that got even more screwed over by you posting them on here? Tell you what. You give me your real name and address along with PHH information and I will do just that.

Now we discuss Walmart's. Well, I am not crazy about their corporation and their ethics either but they sell "merchandise". Cash-gifting, fraudulent investments, scams, pyramids - they sell promises and steal money from people. So maybe there are some members here that you really think are unethical in their approaches but you know what? If that is a way to expose cyber crime and make the public aware BEFORE they lose their money to these crooks, to me that is a good thing. I had rather be on this side trying to expose it and be a whistleblower than be a defender of crime in any form. I am not saying that you are but I still fail to see why you continue to attack members here rather than support what seems to be obvious scam. Do you have a website? Why don't you just start a crusade there and as has been suggested here and free yourself from the abuse if you continue here.

[lutarian]

I attack members uh? Read the first post on this thread and see who mentioned me. See who agreed with the person and than I get jumped. I really don't care though. It shows the ignorance of littleroundman.

So not it is ok to do unethical things to expose victims that join scam programs? Wow. Great morals. How about illegal activity to expose victims in scam programs? That is going on also as I mentioned quite some time ago.

OH. A site will go up and certain members (only a very few) will be exposed big time. However, they are not that worried because they think it will be taken down like the one some other guy did. Hate to say it. This site will not be able to be taken down. Only legit information and of course overseas hosting in the correct Country.

Now we discuss Walmart's. Well, I am not crazy about their corporation and their ethics either but they sell "merchandise". Cash-gifting, fraudulent investments, scams, pyramids - they sell promises and steal money from people. So maybe there are some members here that you really think are unethical in their approaches but you know what? If that is a way to expose cyber crime and make the public aware BEFORE they lose their money to these crooks, to me that is a good thing. I had rather be on this side trying to expose it and be a whistleblower than be a defender of crime in any form. I am not saying that you are but I still fail to see why you continue to attack members here rather than support what seems to be obvious scam. Do you have a website? Why don't you just start a crusade there and as has been suggested here and free yourself from the abuse if you continue here.

[littleroundman]

Oh goody,

a whole pile of cash gifters draw attention to themselves.

Who could ask for anything more ??

[lutarian]

LOL!!! The site will have nothing to do with cash gifting, ponzi schemes, hyip's or any other program. Good grief. You sure assume a whole lot of stuff don't you?

Oh goody,

a whole pile of cash gifters draw attention to themselves.

Who could ask for anything more ??

[lutarian]

LOL!!! Wow. Moving this over here when I never said cash gifting was cool. I actually agreed with littleroundman about the cash gifting program he mentioned being a scam. Of course he reads into things that don't exist though as happens with people with mental issues.

[lutarian]

Really? Moving my comment over to another thread and yet still leaving this and YOU bringing me into this? Here is my original post.

"Actually this is an obvious scam. The true scammers were the ones that ran it and I am sure said whatever they had to say to bring in the rest. However, just because someone joined their little scam does not make them an actual scammer. It makes them ignorant of the fact they were involved in a scam.

Now, once again. I don't defend scam programs. I defend people that have NO CLUE they are involved in a scam program and yet they are called out as a scammer."

If you don't want me to post than maybe you should quit mentioning me?

[littleroundman]

If you don't want me to post than maybe you should quit mentioning me?

Who wants you to quit ???

Certainly not me.

I WANT you to keep posting.

All I have to do is poke you in the ego just a little, and, here you are, right on cue.

Lutarian = hours and hours of endless fun.