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  1. #26
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    Re: Vemma News Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by soapboxmom View Post
    holy yoli! The ftc is no doubt shaking in their boots knowing windbag extraordinaire / the savior of mlm clem lemons is on the job. I mean just look at his prior history of stunning victories in court and sparring with attorneys online:

    http://www.quatloos.com/q-forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6729&hilit=len+clements#p11012 4

    http://quatloos.com/q-forum/viewtopi...p=34237#p34237
    \

    just when we thought this couldn't get any better!!! :rps_w00t:
    150 iq!!!!
    Haven't lost any money to online scams.......results are typical.

  2. #27
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    Re: Vemma News Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by Soapboxmom View Post
    This just gets better and better.

    Vemma mount affidavit defense against FTC lawsuit

    I didn't quote as the entire read is so worth it. MLM attorney Kevin Thompson goes off on one of his wandering diatribes begging Vemma's clueless and faithful to author Affidavits.
    The less than probative value of the affidavits is well covered over at Oz's but I have a hunch there's a second motive. Vemma's affiliate base is being vultured big time by other companies and giving the reps something to do that makes them feel like they're helping the company might keep moral up at least until the hearing.

    That and I do recall an obscure legal precedent for this sort of thing swaying a court case:

    So your prophets of finance have fallen on their collective proverbial face, and you hear muffled voices calling: Welcome to the human race.
    You made a killing dealing real estate at NASA selling cemetery plots in outer space til some falling coffins crashed upon your doorstep: Welcome to the human race.

    Open up your heart...

    Welcome to RealScam.com.

  3. #28
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    Re: Vemma News Stories

    Here we go. The vultures are already picking at the corpse:

    From: Fred Dudley [mailto:frederickdudley@gmail.com]
    Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 9:03 AM
    To: soapboxmom@hotmail.com
    Subject: I have a spot for you direct to the company, Heather…

    DearHeather,

    First, I deeply apologize for everything that has happened at Vemma. I pray that you and your family are in a good place.
    Please take a moment to review this exclusive, life-changing opportunity we've reserved for you. We have a position for you which is direct to the company and wanted to know if you are interested?
    My associate is a scientist who works with NASA just created a life-changing product that medical centers & cancer doctors are ordering. This breakthrough Life Science product was developed on the Space Station.

    By the way, there is no cost to join our affiliate marketing company, and we are currently doing business in a few countries as well...

    My warmest regards,

    Fred Dudley
    CEO
    Keystone Advantage Partners
    155 N. Harbor Dr.
    Chicago, IL 60601
    773-486-2500 Office
    314-619-8645 Call or Text me at any time



    Feel free to connect with me and my 10,000+ colleagues on LinkedIn


    Never buy another business card.
    CLICK here to create your own FREE Virtual Business Card
    He is out in space alright. Herbalife is just another Vemma.

  4. #29
    Luzer is offline Senior Member
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    Re: Vemma News Stories

    I hope Vemma and Herbalife get shut down by the FTC. Time to stop the scammers.

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  6. #31
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    Re: Vemma News Stories

    so......in a 228 page transcript of a preliminary injunction hearing, self proclaimed 'court certified expert' and (his own)world renowned mlm brainiac with the 150IQ (LMAO always funny) isn't mentioned once. How can that be?

    clements scammer1.JPG
    Haven't lost any money to online scams.......results are typical.

  7. #32
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    Re: Vemma News Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by Whip View Post
    so......in a 228 page transcript of a preliminary injunction hearing, self proclaimed 'court certified expert' and (his own)world renowned mlm brainiac with the 150IQ (LMAO always funny) isn't mentioned once. How can that be?

    clements scammer1.JPG
    Even Vemma isn't THAT stupid
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  8. #33
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    Re: Vemma News Stories

    Herbalife/MLM - Ethical Factor In The Market Equation - Herbalife Ltd. (NYSE:HLF) | Seeking Alpha

    This incredible article landed in my box and it is so worth the read. Here are a few of the awesome tidbits:

    It doesn't seem to matter how distasteful an action or condition may be. "What matters is share price; don't you get it?" Yeah, I get it. I get that in the long run this thinking, be it in the mortgage banking industry or Herbalife/MLM, will ultimately kill the goose, leaving only a few who got in early with a golden egg. The point? Greed is rarely bridled; rarely sees or cares about the consequences of its impulse. Greed cheats the customer, shorting him in the exchange. And greed, always, always, always lies. And this is precisely what brought down Vemma-and yes, the company is no more, you watch. In the end, greed will bring down Herbalife and the MLM industry.
    Why? Because in spite in Gordon Gekko's dictum, greed is not good for business. And as the script so brilliantly demonstrated, it has a way of turning on you. And that's important to remember right now. Because as this article will show, millions upon millions of people have been, and are being, lied to and shorted in the exchange. By whom, MLM CEOs and heavy-hitter MLM recruiter/promoters? Yes, but only because they are in the service of a business model that is itself a lie, and one that shorts the customer in the exchange 99% of the time. To understand this, one must identify the real product of MLM. Is it vitamins, beauty products, gasoline additives? No, it's the "business opportunity." And if you don't understand that, or chose to deny it, stop reading the article because you're lying to yourself and its content will be of no value....

    the FTC could save a lot of time by just zeroing in on the Achilles Heel of MLM; its inability to comply with the "Ten Customer Rule." If your reps are receiving override commissions and do not have at least ten retail customers unassociated with the company as selling representatives, you're outta business! Slam of gavel....

    Vemma is an example. Benson Boreyko-I have the say it-was a complete idiot. He got nabbed because he became so intoxicated with his success that he thought himself invincible, beyond being caught. This behavior, of course, is indicative of the criminal mind. It's one thing to turn a blind eye to field reps making outrageous income and health claims, quite another for the CEO to do so. And then Vemma goes targeting college students with: "Never mind a college education, we'll show you how to get rich with MLM." Is there any wonder why the company drew fire from parents and college deans?.....

    Moving further, MLM doesn't get products into the marketplace at all, not the real marketplace, anyway. It creates a synthetic market of internal consumption, a market that would not otherwise exist if it weren't for the lure of making money by participating....

    15. As evidenced by their sales and marketing activities and compensation plan, Defendants' business model depends upon recruiting individuals to participate in Vemma as Affiliates and encouraging them to purchase Vemma Products in connection with such participation, rather than selling products to ultimate-user consumers. Defendants' sales and marketing activities and their compensation plan place little emphasis on sales to consumers outside of the Vemma organization.
    21. Defendants emphasize recruitment over product sales and stress the importance of recruiting new participants into the Vemma program.
    Clearly, in clauses 15 and 21, the FTC is making a distinction between "participants" and what they are calling an "ultimate user." They are not the same. This entirely shoots down the argument advanced by MLM/Herbalife apologists on this blog to the contrary-hang it up, guys. The FTC wants real "retail sales," and they want a preponderance of them. Which points to the intent of the Amway '79 "Ten Customer Rule," the "safeguard" that kept the FTC from shutting the company down as a recruitment-driven pyramid scheme.
    There isn't and never has been an MLM company that had at least ten customers (retail buyers that do not participate in the pay plan) per salesperson. Even the idea of ten customers per salesperson is beyond laughable. What salesperson in the real world selling small ticket items could make a living with only ten customers? The FTC is finally headed in the right direction and these egregious MLMs may finally see the legal action that is richly deserved!

  9. #34
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    Re: Vemma News Stories

    Vemma executives fight FTC to reopen their Tempe energy-drink company

    Government witnesses, in turn, pointed out that Vemma's revenue appeared to depend on the continual recruitment of so-called "affiliates" rather than the direct sale of nutritional products to consumers.

    "Seventy-eight percent of sales were to affiliates, 22 percent to customers," said Kenton Johnson, executive vice president of Robb Evans and Associates, the court-appointed receiver.







    Johnson said he did not believe he could "lawfully and profitably" allow sales to continue because of the ratio of affiliates to consumers. He said selling products to affiliates likely would further the pyramid scheme and there weren't enough non-affiliated consumers to make a profitable dent in the inventory.

    Testimony on Tuesday revealed Vemma has about 100 employees and up to 400,000 active affiliates worldwide....

    Despite Vemma's line of nutrition drinks, the FTC alleges the company's primary source of revenue comes from the buy-in of new affiliates.







    The FTC accused Vemma of targeting students to serve as affiliates with marketing materials showing "prosperous young people with luxury cars, jets, and yachts" and false claims that they could earn as much as $50,000 per week. The FTC said company officials suggested students could earn enough to bypass college by joining the company.....


    The Italian government declared Vemma a pyramid scheme in April 2014. Switzerland’s State Secretariat for Economic Affairs said prosecutors are investigating the company. Consumer protection agencies in Germany and Austria also have issued warnings about the company and advised young adults to steer clear.....

    (Boreyko)He criticized the FTC investigation, saying an undercover agent used selective information to build his case. In one point he said the agent highlighted sound bites from Vemma representatives to make the company look bad.
    Those poor schleps need to throw in the towel. No MLM has any significant number of customers and they never will!

  10. #35
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    Re: Vemma News Stories

    Vemma executives fight FTC to reopen their Tempe energy-drink company

    Government witnesses, in turn, pointed out that Vemma's revenue appeared to depend on the continual recruitment of so-called "affiliates" rather than the direct sale of nutritional products to consumers.

    "Seventy-eight percent of sales were to affiliates, 22 percent to customers," said Kenton Johnson, executive vice president of Robb Evans and Associates, the court-appointed receiver.







    Johnson said he did not believe he could "lawfully and profitably" allow sales to continue because of the ratio of affiliates to consumers. He said selling products to affiliates likely would further the pyramid scheme and there weren't enough non-affiliated consumers to make a profitable dent in the inventory.

    Testimony on Tuesday revealed Vemma has about 100 employees and up to 400,000 active affiliates worldwide....

    Despite Vemma's line of nutrition drinks, the FTC alleges the company's primary source of revenue comes from the buy-in of new affiliates.







    The FTC accused Vemma of targeting students to serve as affiliates with marketing materials showing "prosperous young people with luxury cars, jets, and yachts" and false claims that they could earn as much as $50,000 per week. The FTC said company officials suggested students could earn enough to bypass college by joining the company.....


    The Italian government declared Vemma a pyramid scheme in April 2014. Switzerland’s State Secretariat for Economic Affairs said prosecutors are investigating the company. Consumer protection agencies in Germany and Austria also have issued warnings about the company and advised young adults to steer clear.....

    (Boreyko)He criticized the FTC investigation, saying an undercover agent used selective information to build his case. In one point he said the agent highlighted sound bites from Vemma representatives to make the company look bad.
    Those poor schleps need to throw in the towel. No MLM has any significant number of customers and they never will!

  11. #36
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    Re: Vemma News Stories

    Today's ruling [Link thanks to Don Ryan]

    I'm seeing a lot of chatter on the MLM side that this is a "victory" for Vemma and I suppose technically it is in so far as the court did not grant all of the FTC's requested injuntive relief, but the way that Vemma is still allowed to operate might be worse than closed. Just to clear a few things up that I've seen posted elswhere:

    Vemma has in no way been "cleared" of being a pyramid scheme. The court found that there are perhaps non pyramid aspects with "some significant amount of Defendants" product is sold to persons not pursuing the business opportunity." But to be clear, from page 6:



    Vemma was also hit hard on false and misleading claims. There's a very interesting line of reasoning running through this decision, it strikes me almost like common sense. (My interpretations) Vemma, while having some level of product value is functioning as a pyramid scheme because the marketing encourages people to purchase an affiliate pack, go on autoship and then recruit more people to do the same. Because Vemma is functioning as a pyramid scheme the overwhelming majority of participants will lose money. Because the disclaimers on the marketing material fail to disclose that almost everyone loses money they are in fact deceptive. Yet Vemma still has ~some~ real customers.

    So, what happens from here? Well everything that has happened in court has been a preliminary, pre trial action, there's a whole court case yet to be tried. And Vemma will reopen for business with a target drawn squarely on their heads under the constant supervision of a court appointed monitor under a set of conditions I don't think they can live with. One example, Vemma is restrained and enjoined from:

    4. Pays any compensation related to the purchase or sale of goods or
    services unless the majority of such compensation is derived from sales to or
    purchases by persons who are not members of the Marketing Program;
    How the hell can Vemma survive only paying commissions when most of the money is coming from (gasp) ACTUAL CUSTOMERS !!! I think this provision gets the whole ruling appealed. There is no way anyone who can swing a downline will stay with Vemma trying to sell energy drink when they can jump to any other the other MLMs out there who can pay far more handsomely with affiliate money. At least for the time being. Vemma's marketing material will need to be screened by the FTC as well. Good Bye tiny little disclaimers and Hello WARNING: ALMOST NO ONE MAKES MONEY IN THIS COMPANY !!!

    This story isn't anywhere near over yet, but it is turning into an interesting read.


    Edit to add, a link to Kevin Thompson and Kevin Grimes offering they're opinions.
    So your prophets of finance have fallen on their collective proverbial face, and you hear muffled voices calling: Welcome to the human race.
    You made a killing dealing real estate at NASA selling cemetery plots in outer space til some falling coffins crashed upon your doorstep: Welcome to the human race.

    Open up your heart...

    Welcome to RealScam.com.

  12. #37
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    Re: Vemma News Stories

    Vemma prohibited from resuming normal operations

    A federal judge barred Vemma Nutrition Company from resuming normal operations Friday and appointed a monitor to oversee its business practices, saying there was little doubt it is operating a pyramid scheme.

    U.S. District Court Judge John Tuchi prohibited the Tempe-based energy drink maker from paying commissions, recruiting new members, offering rewards for purchases and tying sales to multi-level marketing.

    The ruling guts the core of Vemma's multilevel marketing operation and supports a Federal Trade Commission lawsuit filed last month seeking to shut down the company for operating an illegal pyramid scheme.

    "The evidence before the Court leaves little doubt that the FTC will ultimately succeed on the merits in demonstrating that Vemma is operating a pyramid scheme," Tuchi wrote in his 27-page ruling filed just after 1 p.m., which characterized Veema's marketing material as deceptive and misleading. "Some Vemma material also contains representations the Court would characterize as ridiculous—bordering on absurd—such that a listener could not reasonably be expected to believe them."
    Tuchi's order allows the company to continue selling products directly to consumers, so long as the sales are for personal use and the majority of purchases are not made by members of the company's marketing program, so-called affiliates.
    Depending on whom one chooses to believe 70-78% of the sales are inside the pyramid pay plan as of today, so Vemma is screwed. The ruling is pure comedic gold.

  13. #38
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    Re: Vemma News Stories

    Some highlights from Judge Tuchis' order in the matter of the Vemma preliminary injunction
































    http://imageshack.com/a/img661/617/aLIxaa.jpg
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  14. #39
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    Re: Vemma News Stories

    Vemma is dead. The Vemma distributors were just self consuming product making it basically a pay to play scam.

    Hopefully Herbalife goes down next.

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    Re: Vemma News Stories

    Clem Lemons genius I.Q. at work again!

    Shame on AZCentral, and you, Mr. Anglen, for your egregiously inaccurate portrayal of events related to this case.

    First, the video accompanying this article is obviously outdated, and refers to events previous to the Sept. 18th hearing, several of which are no longer applicable.

    Furthermore, the Judge's Sept. 18th ruling absolutely, in now way, "prohibited the Tempe-based company from paying commissions, recruiting new members, offering rewards for purchases and tying sales to multi-level marketing." This is utterly and demonstrably wrong. Not only is Vemma still allowed to do all of the above, it is still allowed to pay up to 50% of commissions on the products *personally purchased* by downline Affiliates.

    In addition, you claim the judge's order, "allows the company to continue selling products directly to consumers, so long as the sales are for personal use and the majority of purchases are not made by members of the company's marketing program, so-called affiliates." Again, this is completely inaccurate. The order also allows for sales to Affiliates, which can be for sampling or resale, and it clearly defined that the majority of "commissions", not purchases, must not come from Affiliate purchases.
    Where do I start? If the majority of commissions must come from retail sales to real consumers outside of the pyramid pay plan, then logic dictates that the majority of the sales must also come from retail customers / consumers that are outside of the pyramid pay plan.....


  16. #41
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    Re: Vemma News Stories

    he soooooooo wants thompson to spoon him.
    Haven't lost any money to online scams.......results are typical.

  17. #42
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    Re: Vemma News Stories

    Another incredible read on Seeking Alpha:

    With FTC Pulling Out Of A Skid In The Vemma Case, MLM Industry Put On Notice - Herbalife Ltd. (NYSE:HLF) | Seeking Alpha

    Conclusion

    This is the time for investors everywhere to come to grips with the fact that MLM is not a business with regulatory exposure, but a criminal fraud masquerading as a (direct sales) business.....

    DOJ action and a possible RICO case may be next

    The rapidity of the defections in Vemma, makes it clear once again that MLM is not about product but about pyramids, and technically MLM is a direct sales front that is designed to cover up a covert illegal pyramid that is present by implication in the terms of he compensation plan.....

    It's all about economics, stupid

    At its core, MLM-onomics is about substituting the recruitment of sellers for sales.....

    In short the synthetic demand for MLM product is created by the lure of the business opportunity, and in turn the business opportunity is viable only base on the fraudulent misrepresentation that everyone has the same opportunity, but it is invariably only a very small band of top leaders who reap the rewards, for the systems is designed to not pay most people for what they do, and yet have them assume all the expenses, based entirely on a fraudulent misrepresentation of their prospects......

    The reality is that in MLM the product is nearly never offered without the business opportunity, which allegedly even Herbalife CEO Michael O. Johnson likened to a lottery ticket, as reported in the New York Post recently, here....

    Judge John J. Tuchi was not bamboozled by defense reality-twisting.


    Vemma can sell product, but not with a lottery ticket attached.


    Herbalife has undertaken a euphemistic relabeling of failed distributors to customers similar to Vemma.


    The days of confounding law enforcement with cosmetic changes may be over.
    MLM is really getting the attention it deserves!

  18. #43
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    Re: Vemma News Stories

    If you look past all the spin doctoring and MLM / DSA rhetoric, Judge Tuchi has placed Vemma in a perfect position to prove both he, the FTC and the former receiver wrong.

    With all the suspicious segments of the Vemma business now exposed and removed "all" Vemma has to do is concentrate on the retail aspect of its' business and let the results speak for themselves.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  19. #44
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    Re: Vemma News Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by littleroundman View Post
    If you look past all the spin doctoring and MLM / DSA rhetoric, Judge Tuchi has placed Vemma in a perfect position to prove both he, the FTC and the former receiver wrong.

    With all the suspicious segments of the Vemma business now exposed and removed "all" Vemma has to do is concentrate on the retail aspect of its' business and let the results speak for themselves.
    I know. One would think that shouldn't be too hard right? lol
    Haven't lost any money to online scams.......results are typical.

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    Re: Vemma News Stories

    And you guys thought you had it all figured out, didn't you ???

    Well you didn't.


    Not according to Vemma Ambassador, Lanny Morton
    @lannymorton on Twitter, anyway.

    Here's Lanny Morton with his insights into what occurred:

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  21. #46
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    Re: Vemma News Stories

    Len Clements:
    <snip Gone with The Wind length ridiculous diatribe>............

    Having said that, it’s glaringly self-evident that the removal of the receiver in lieu of a “monitor” and unfreezing of all assets, which essentially took Vemma from death row to probation, is a major “victory”.
    Clem has a very curious definition of victory!

  22. #47
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    Re: Vemma News Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by Soapboxmom View Post
    Len Clements:
    Clem has a very curious definition of victory!
    c'mon.......he waved his amega wand and the judge cowered!
    Haven't lost any money to online scams.......results are typical.

  23. #48
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    Re: Vemma News Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by Whip View Post
    c'mon.......he waved his amega wand and the judge cowered!
    Oh, you said AMEGA wand.

    Phew,

    for a moment there I thought he'd waved.......................nevermind
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  24. #49
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    Re: Vemma News Stories



    It's notable the Vemma website is now showing only the IP number in the address bar,

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  25. #50
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    Re: Vemma News Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by littleroundman View Post


    It's notable the Vemma website is now showing only the IP number in the address bar,

    and 'victory' it is. lol
    Haven't lost any money to online scams.......results are typical.

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