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Thread: Orietx - cash gifting is theft, folks

  1. #1
    ProfHenryHiggins is offline Elite Scambuster
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    Orietx - cash gifting is theft, folks

    Apparently this scheme is coming out of the island of Puerto Rico, targeting Spanish-speaking folks in an "atom" based cash gifting fraud scheme.

    The apparent owner is:

    Registrant:
    Alex Cruz
    Rio Piedras calle 44
    San Juan, 00924
    Puerto Rico

    Registered through: GoDaddy.com, LLC (Go Daddy Mobile - Domain Search, Go Daddy Commercials)
    Domain Name: ORIETX.COM
    Created on: 17-Jun-11
    Expires on: 17-Jun-13
    Last Updated on: 27-Aug-11

    Administrative Contact:
    Cruz, Alex alexcruz2.ac@gmail.com
    Rio Piedras calle 44
    San Juan, 00924
    Puerto Rico
    787-462-5052

    Technical Contact:
    Cruz, Alex alexcruz2.ac@gmail.com
    Rio Piedras calle 44
    San Juan, 00924
    Puerto Rico
    787-462-5052

    Domain servers in listed order:
    NS3275.HOSTGATOR.COM
    NS3276.HOSTGATOR.COM

    As it doubles as a social network, I would suspect that Mr. Cruz may have been exposed to J.J. Ulrich's "Connecting Us All": some time before starting his own scam.

  2. #2
    Finix is offline Banned
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    Re: Orietx - cash gifting is theft, folks

    Cash gifting isn't theft. People have the weirdest mindsets. If they are all onboard with each other, what's the harm, really?

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    Re: Orietx - cash gifting is theft, folks

    Quote Originally Posted by Finix View Post
    Cash gifting isn't theft. People have the weirdest mindsets. If they are all onboard with each other, what's the harm, really?
    http://pyramidschemealert.org
    It should be remembered that even the “naked” pyramids also have their own “loophole” rationalization. These schemes, often called “cash gifting,” claim that they too do not charge “fees” to join and do not pay “rewards” for recruiting, which the anti-pyramid laws specify as pyramid requirements. Therefore, they are also not pyramid schemes either, they claim. They simply facilitate gifts! They are just private clubs where people give and receive. The largest gifting program was called “Women Helping Women.” More than a million women joined. The scheme claimed everyone could receive an 800% profit on their original gift. Each person who joined made a gift of money and later, as others also made their gifts, the earlier people received gifts from eight others. Wink, wink, nod, nod.

    As a side note, experts have determined that the cash gifting schemes, which have no products, actually cause less economic harm than the MLMs do, which use products as their fig leaf. More participants in the cash gifting schemes actually can make money (nearly 10% versus less than 1% in the product-based schemes and the average losses per person are less.) Yet, product or no product, the results – massive consumer losses – are essentially the same because the essentials of the pyramid are the same. Both types of schemes also carry out the same deceptions about income and sustainability. Both tell the same lie and rely on the same “endless chain” trick.
    Cash Gifting according to the IRS and many more legitimate sources is illegal in many jursidictions. It is also a naked pyramid scheme where by design 90% must lose. That seems like tremendous harm to me as the vast majority of the participants will likely be folks that are in desperate need of the money to make ends meet. So, Finix, I think the only one with a weird mindset might be you, lassie.

    Soapboxmom

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    Re: Orietx - cash gifting is theft, folks

    Finix: Cash Gifting is ILLEGAL because: The FTC, The IRS, All 50 State Attorneys General say it is; and they are the ones who count. So do almost all of the Western Nations of Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, many countries in Latin America and Southeast Asia.

    It makes no difference what I think, you think, or anyone else thinks. Until the regulatory agencies in all the countries mentioned above change their laws, it is illegal. By the way, the women who started Women Empowering Women are sitting in prison; and in December 2010, 8 women were charged in Michigan with running a cash gifting scheme.

    Had you bothered to read my book, you would know why it is illegal, and what harm it does. Devoted a whole chapter on Cash Gifting. I know, I know, my book isn't worth your time to read and it could not teach you anything you don't already know; well according to you.
    EagleOne
    Founder/President Eagle Research Associates
    http://eagleresearchassociates.org
    http://swindles.org
    Author: "Robbing You With A Keyboard Instead Of A Gun - Cyber Crime How They Do It" available in soft cover and eBook at Amazon.com
    Lifetime Member of the National Association of Distinguished Professionals

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    baylee is offline Senior Scambuster
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    Re: Orietx - cash gifting is theft, folks

    The State of Iowa "Here’s what Steve St. Clair of the Iowa Attorney General’s Consumer Protection Division had to say about cash gifting programs in 2000:" There are other states referenced also.

    Iowa

    Here’s what Steve St. Clair of the Iowa Attorney General’s Consumer Protection Division had to say about cash gifting programs in 2000:

    … promoters may claim that this [gifting] scheme is legal because all payments are designated “gifts,” and participants may even be asked to sign a paper stating that they are making gifts. Promoters often claim that this “gift” angle makes the scheme legal, and that the pay-outs don’t have to be reported as income at tax time. These claims are false.

    Many other false representations may be made in promoting such schemes, including the claim that pay-outs are easy and quick, and that a refund will be readily available if requested. These pyramids ultimately collapse, leaving a lot of disappointed participants scrambling to get refunds from the person who got them to participate and/or the person who received their money.

    According to St. Clair, cash gifting participants can be prosecuted in Iowa under the following states:

    1. Theft by deception (Iowa Code sections 714.1(3) & 702.9). This law makes it a crime to obtain money or property through the use of deception. The written materials used to promote gifting pyramids may make deceptive claims regarding: (a) the fact that the initial payment is a gift rather than an investment; (b) the tax status of these “gifts”; (c) the speed with which a large pay-out will be generated; and (d) the legality of the scheme itself.

    2. Securities violations (Iowa Code section 502.102 (19). Securities laws control the promotion of various types of investments. Gifting pyramids have been determined by courts in other jurisdictions to constitute “investment contracts,” a form of security under Iowa law. (See the Nebraska Supreme Court ruling in State v. Irons, below). The sale of securities in Iowa is subject to a variety of registration and licensing requirements, as well as prohibitions regarding misrepresentations under Iowa’s Blue Sky Law, Iowa Code Chapter 502. See e.g., State v. Kraklio, 560 N.W.2d 16 (Iowa 1997).

    3. Lottery (Iowa Code section 725.12). Iowa’s lottery law prohibits prize schemes where a person pays to participate and the winners are determined by a process involving a substantial element of chance. With gifting pyramids, one makes a “gift” in order to participate; one participates in order to receive the pay-out (the prize element); and whether a pay-out comes about involves a great deal of chance, since it depends on matters outside the participant’s control (the activities of strangers, and whether the pyramid has already saturated the region).

    4. Tax Evasion (Iowa Code sections 422.25(8) & 703.1). Persons who do not report any pay-outs they receive through this scheme as income on their tax returns risk being prosecuted for tax evasion, and persons who inform others that pay-outs are not counted as income risk being prosecuted for aiding and abetting tax evasion.

    Finally, in Hall v. Montgomery Ward, the Iowa Supreme Court ruled that crime victims can sue the person who committed the crime. Participants in cash gifting pyramid schemes in Iowa may be able to use this legal precedent to recover money damages from promoters.

    Link:

    Cash Gifting Scams, Programs, Forums, & Articles | Cash Gifting Watchdog

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    Re: Orietx - cash gifting is theft, folks

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleOne View Post
    Finix: Cash Gifting is ILLEGAL because:
    Oh, I know that. All I'm saying if they are a group of New Age freaks who are all onboard with each other, what's the real harm in them passing around some cash to each other.

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    Re: Orietx - cash gifting is theft, folks

    Quote Originally Posted by Finix View Post
    Oh, I know that. All I'm saying if they are a group of New Age freaks who are all onboard with each other, what's the real harm in them passing around some cash to each other.
    Sorry, but I don't have any sympathy for encouraging folks to participate in clearly illegal activities. Really bad consequences can flow from good trusting people getting involved in scams like cash gifting, tax avoidance deals and many more.

    The Starkey Expose of Global Prosperity Group

    Perhaps you would be more comfortable posting on TG or Scam where the others promoting illegal and uneconomic schemes congregate.

    Soapboxmom

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    Re: Orietx - cash gifting is theft, folks

    Quote Originally Posted by Soapboxmom View Post
    Sorry, but I don't have any sympathy for encouraging folks to participate in clearly illegal activities.
    I'm not encouraging them, but I'm not exactly keen on ratting them out to authorities if they are all in that illegal activity out of their own free will.

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    ProfHenryHiggins is offline Elite Scambuster
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    Re: Orietx - cash gifting is theft, folks

    Finix, one of the most common things that cash gifters do is try to convince potential recruits that what they are doing isn't illegal; i.e. adding another layer of fraud on top of the theft.

    Think organized crime, not a group of marijuana advocates.

  10. #10
    Finix is offline Banned
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    Re: Orietx - cash gifting is theft, folks

    Quote Originally Posted by ProfHenryHiggins View Post
    Think organized crime, not a group of marijuana advocates.
    I'm so tired of organized crime. I don't think there is a mob in the world left who doesn't know me yet.

  11. #11
    Finix is offline Banned
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    Re: Orietx - cash gifting is theft, folks

    Quote Originally Posted by ProfHenryHiggins View Post
    Finix, one of the most common things that cash gifters do is try to convince potential recruits that what they are doing isn't illegal; i.e. adding another layer of fraud on top of the theft.
    I don't know any more. I'd like to see one actual valid victim of fraud - someone who is not drawn to easy money himself or herself in the first place. No matter how hard I try to find one, I can't find one.

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    Re: Orietx - cash gifting is theft, folks

    Quote Originally Posted by Finix View Post
    I don't know any more. I'd like to see one actual valid victim of fraud - someone who is not drawn to easy money himself or herself in the first place. No matter how hard I try to find one, I can't find one.
    So, the simple, desperate, honest and / or trusting people who could get enticed in should go down and be put at risk of facing criminal charges and / or civil lawsuits so a few dishonest and greedy can found and sit at the top of the heap in such programs??? I have met and corresponded with numerous victims and had the horrific job of burying one. So, don't tell me the victims are hard to find. The number of victims is exponentially greater than the number of money makers in these fraudulent and illegal schemes.

    Soapboxmom

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    Re: Orietx - cash gifting is theft, folks

    Quote Originally Posted by Soapboxmom View Post
    So, the simple, desperate, honest and / or trusting people who could get enticed?
    I've been observing the industry for over a decade now. I'm yet to see one honest person in it, victims included.

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    Re: Orietx - cash gifting is theft, folks

    Quote Originally Posted by Finix View Post
    I've been observing the industry for over a decade now. I'm yet to see one honest person in it, victims included.
    So, it is your position that someone that is attracted to an "opportunity" based by the lies told by it's perpetrator is not a fraud victim? Or just those that are drawn to "monetary" fraud. ( investment, cash gifting etc.) It actually always comes back to the money, whether a pill that makes gas from water, a device that supposedly doubles or triples your mileage, wonder cure water, pills, etc. Your artificially narrowing what defines a fraud victim allows you to apparently convince yourself that there are no fraud victims. This seems to show that you have an astounding lack of concern for your fellow humans.( Unless you do not consider yourself to be human...?)
    It seems like in this "industry" common sense is not all that common!

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    Re: Orietx - cash gifting is theft, folks

    Quote Originally Posted by laidback View Post
    So, it is your position that someone that is attracted to an "opportunity" based by the lies told by it's perpetrator is not a fraud victim?
    They are a victim alright. The victim status doesn't make them an honest person, though.

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    Re: Orietx - cash gifting is theft, folks

    Quote Originally Posted by laidback View Post
    Your artificially narrowing what defines a fraud victim allows you to apparently convince yourself that there are no fraud victims.
    Oh, there are victims. It's just they are not any more honest than the fraudsters themselves. At least I haven't seen a single fraud victim that deserved sympathy. Their family members do, but they themselves don't.

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    Re: Orietx - cash gifting is theft, folks

    Quote Originally Posted by Finix View Post
    Oh, there are victims. It's just they are not any more honest than the fraudsters themselves. At least I haven't seen a single fraud victim that deserved sympathy. Their family members do, but they themselves don't.
    Apparently, your definition of "honesty" is more narrow than your definition of "victim", and most probably excludes the entire human species....!
    It seems like in this "industry" common sense is not all that common!

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    Re: Orietx - cash gifting is theft, folks

    Quote Originally Posted by Finix View Post
    They are a victim alright. The victim status doesn't make them an honest person, though.
    The very reason many became victims is that they are honest and trusting people and they believe those they deal with share those noble qualities. You can't imagine the terrible pain and self doubt many victims go through when they have that horrible realization they have been lied to and conned and have taken friends and family in as well.

    Soapboxmom

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    Re: Orietx - cash gifting is theft, folks

    Quote Originally Posted by laidback View Post
    Apparently, your definition of "honesty" is more narrow than your definition of "victim", and most probably excludes the entire human species....!
    No, I've seen honest people before. They were human. None of them were anywhere near fraud or fraudsters though.

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    Re: Orietx - cash gifting is theft, folks

    Quote Originally Posted by Soapboxmom View Post
    You can't imagine the terrible pain and self doubt many victims go through when they have that horrible realization they have been lied to and conned and have taken friends and family in as well.
    I know exactly what they feel. I've done an experiment and walked in their shoes just to prove a point. Their pain and self-doubt, however admirable, doesn't make them honest people.

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    Re: Orietx - cash gifting is theft, folks

    Quote Originally Posted by Finix View Post
    I know exactly what they feel. I've done an experiment and walked in their shoes just to prove a point. Their pain and self-doubt, however admirable, doesn't make them honest people.
    Sorry but I don't think that is possible without transporting yourself to another person's body. Of course maybe you have those abilities, what do I know? You should be at 'home' on the Mountain in Scamlandpro.

    There are honest people whether they allow themselves to be scammed or not. I do feel sorry for those who have been taken. I just read of an acquaintance that fell for a scam and lost quite a bit of money. Honest or not, I have no idea but one thing for sure this person is a victim of crime.

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    Re: Orietx - cash gifting is theft, folks

    Quote Originally Posted by scratchycat View Post
    There are honest people whether they allow themselves to be scammed or not.
    You'd have to be more specific than that. Give examples, etc. Like I said, in over a decade of observing the industry, I've not seen a single honest person in it, including victims. I'm not claiming that there aren't any, I'm simply asking for proof that there are because it contradicts my vast experience with the industry.

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    Re: Orietx - cash gifting is theft, folks

    http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories...83.shtmlSystem for deaf is used in new scamBy Amy Allyn Swann|Staff WriterSaturday, June 10, 2006Jewelry store owner Joel Franco thought he was taking an order for a $2,300 gold rope chain from a woman in Ogden, Utah.He didn't know he was about to be a victim of the latest Nigerian scam, Richmond County Sheriff's Investigator Anita Hopson said."The Nigerians have now figured out a scam using TTY," the investigator said Friday.**More at link. It's a good article, and I emailed the author and offered my knowledge of the scams as an operator.It would be really great if anyone else would email her and do the same. Her contact info is:Reach Amy Allyn Swann at (706) 823-3338 oramy.swann@augustachronicle.com.

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    Re: Orietx - cash gifting is theft, folks

    There is a fast and efficient way to validate checks. Cutting corners when seeing $$$ doesn't strike me as being particularly honest, sorry.

  25. #25
    baylee is offline Senior Scambuster
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    Re: Orietx - cash gifting is theft, folks

    This has happen to several people in Augusta.

    Ga. agency warns of sweepstakes scam
    Staff
    Thursday, Feb. 24, 2011 4:33 PM

    Link:


    Ga. agency warns of sweepstakes scam | The Augusta Chronicle

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