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Thread: 2014 Work Abroad China Foreign Teacher Recruiter & School Scam Blacklist Available - Free

  1. #1
    Seattle is offline Member
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    2014 Work Abroad China Foreign Teacher Recruiter & School Scam Blacklist Available - Free

    If you google "Work in China" or "Teach in China" you will see over 50,000 job listings and over 95% of them are either fake ads (trying to get your resume and passport scans for identity theft) or they are real ads with fake salaries. From outside of China it is impossible to know the difference. But there is a blacklist published every 3 months by the China Foreign Teachers Union that lists over 380 known scams in China by name, email address, telephone and Skype numbers, and even with photographs. Here is the link. http://www.ChinaForeignTeachersUnion.org. Another good place to double-check is www.ChinaScamBusters.com. Remember all those ads were placed there by third party agents and recruiters who take 25%-50% of your salary. GO DIRECT to the employer or ask the CFTU for a free job placement.

  2. #2
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    Re: 2014 Work Abroad China Foreign Teacher Recruiter & School Scam Blacklist Available - Free

    Actually, both of the websites in your post are hosted on the same server at 173.194.79.121.
    WhoIs for chinascambusters.com
    WhoIs for chinaforeignteachersunion.org
    Both also have GoDaddy as a registrar and were registered with 4 months of each other.

    Quite the coincidence given that there are another 283,319 websites also hosted on that server.
    One could almost come to the conclusion that both of those websites are owned by the same individual(s).

    Oh, and a number of the companies listed on those websites of yours aren't for jobs in China.
    The are for internships in China, basically they are in China as student-teachers.
    After doing the internship one would have to leave China, and return to their home country to work.
    Last edited by nomaxim; 02-13-2014 at 10:55 PM.
    Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. -C. Darwin

  3. #3
    NikSam is offline AntiCon Artist
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    Re: 2014 Work Abroad China Foreign Teacher Recruiter & School Scam Blacklist Available - Free

    you did not perform lookups right , the valid URLs in both cases must have www. part to be seen

    domaintools did not use www. part to resolve IP of the sites,

    Code:
    $ dig www.chinaforeignteachersunion.org
    
    ;; ANSWER SECTION:
    www.chinaforeignteachersunion.org. 3600	IN CNAME ghs.google.com.
    ghs.google.com.		432384	IN	CNAME	ghs.l.google.com.
    ghs.l.google.com.	251	IN	A	173.194.74.121
    
    $ whois 173.194.74.121
    
    ...
    OrgName:        Google Inc.
    OrgId:          GOGL
    Address:        1600 Amphitheatre Parkway
    City:           Mountain View
    StateProv:      CA
    PostalCode:     94043
    Country:        US
    RegDate:        2000-03-30
    Updated:        2013-08-07
    Ref:            http://whois.arin.net/rest/org/GOGL
    
    ...
    Clear? it is hosted on Google (www. chinaforeignteachersunion.org in this case is not the same as chinaforeignteachersunion.org (which resolves to unreachable IPs))

    Now the other

    Code:
    $ dig www.chinascambusters.com
    
    ;; ANSWER SECTION:
    www.chinascambusters.com. 3600	IN	CNAME	ghs.google.com.
    ghs.google.com.		433863	IN	CNAME	ghs.l.google.com.
    ghs.l.google.com.	26	IN	A	173.194.74.121
    !!! SAME IP as First

    but if you resolve IP without www. part
    also set of unreachable IPs
    Code:
    $ dig chinascambusters.com
    
    ;; ANSWER SECTION:
    chinascambusters.com.	600	IN	A	184.168.221.52
    chinascambusters.com.	600	IN	A	216.239.32.21
    chinascambusters.com.	600	IN	A	216.239.34.21
    chinascambusters.com.	600	IN	A	216.239.36.21
    chinascambusters.com.	600	IN	A	216.239.38.21
    So , ok both sites are on 173.194.74.121 which belongs to Google.

    Now take a look at both, they all running on blogger.org platform, owned by google, is it clear now ?
    - they both hosted on blogger.org as thousands of others with www. domains pointed to theirs specific blogs.

    283,319 number it showed was for IPs of 216.239.3x.21, which still google's,
    but that is not the IPs you go to when you type www.chinascambusters.com
    Last edited by NikSam; 02-13-2014 at 11:35 PM.

  4. #4
    nomaxim's Avatar
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    Re: 2014 Work Abroad China Foreign Teacher Recruiter & School Scam Blacklist Available - Free

    Quote Originally Posted by NikSam View Post
    you did not perform lookups right , the valid URLs in both cases must have www. part to be seen

    domaintools did not use www. part to resolve IP of the sites,
    Generally, all internet requests insert 'www' (World Wide Web) and 'http://' (Hypertext Transfer Protocol) automatically.
    They also still sometimes put the extension '.com' at the end, which is rather annoying.

    However, 'http://www.' is generally unnecessary any longer for domain name look-ups (WhoIs info).
    But, the entree of 'www' may still be necessary for some url's


    So , ok both sites are on 173.194.74.121 which belongs to Google.
    So you agree that both are hosted at 173.194.74.121.
    Correct.

    Sorry, but you are stating that the info is wrong.
    But, then you agree that the info is correct.
    Please clarify.


    Quote Originally Posted by NikSam View Post
    Now take a look at both, they all running on blogger.org platform, owned by google, is it clear now ?
    - they both hosted on blogger.org as thousands of others with www. domains pointed to theirs specific blogs.
    Yea, that it's a blog clearly shows in my browser;
    You also agree that both are hosted at 173.194.74.121, per the above.
    Correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by NikSam View Post
    283,319 number it showed was for IPs of 216.239.3x.21, which still google's,
    but that is not the IPs you go to when you type China Foreign Teacher Wages Salary Pay & Earnings Facts - 2013
    Actually the number is 283,321;
    ChinaScamBusters.com WHOIS, DNS, & Domain Info - DomainTools
    And that info is for the server at 173.194.74.121;
    Since the two websites (blogs) mentioned it the OP are already hosted on this server I subtracted them from the total.

    283,321 -2 =283,319

    And, I have no idea where you got the IP 216.239.3x.21 from, since you never bothered to link to the source.


    Quote Originally Posted by NikSam View Post
    $ dig chinascambusters.com

    ;; ANSWER SECTION:
    chinascambusters.com. 600 IN A 184.168.221.52
    chinascambusters.com. 600 IN A 216.239.32.21
    chinascambusters.com. 600 IN A 216.239.34.21
    chinascambusters.com. 600 IN A 216.239.36.21
    chinascambusters.com. 600 IN A 216.239.38.21
    I am kinda guessing here.
    But, are you running a 'trace route" here?
    Dig (command) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    If so, then those are the routing server IP's leading to the host IP, and not the actual host IP.
    Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. -C. Darwin

  5. #5
    NikSam is offline AntiCon Artist
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    Re: 2014 Work Abroad China Foreign Teacher Recruiter & School Scam Blacklist Available - Free

    no, dig is simplified utility for dns queries, you can achieve same results with nslookup

    'A' record is what exact name resolves to which IP address
    'CNAME' record is alias, means lookup stated mentioned name for info

    if a query returns multiple IPs, it is called round robin configuration, used for load balancing, any next request will return second IP as first, 3rd as second and move previous-first to the end.

    And no, domaintools in your example used it without www., which you can confirm by clicking on the number "283,321"
    and see which IP it used to query the number.

    In this configuration domains with and without www. part resolves to different IPs, which is very common, think of smtp., ftp., etc

    Opening browser to a domain with www. or without it will only bring you to the same place and IP if both versions was set that way.

    see this:
    Code:
    $ dig chinascambusters.com
    
    ;; ANSWER SECTION:
    chinascambusters.com.	53	IN	A	216.239.32.21
    chinascambusters.com.	53	IN	A	216.239.34.21
    chinascambusters.com.	53	IN	A	216.239.36.21
    chinascambusters.com.	53	IN	A	216.239.38.21
    chinascambusters.com.	53	IN	A	184.168.221.52
    
    
    $ dig www.chinascambusters.com
    
    ;; ANSWER SECTION:
    www.chinascambusters.com. 3600	IN	CNAME	ghs.google.com.
    ghs.google.com.		362746	IN	CNAME	ghs.l.google.com.
    ghs.l.google.com.	232	IN	A	173.194.74.121
    (can do that with nslookup too)

    I assume you are on Windows, you can also easily verify it with a simple ping commands:
    ping www.chinascambusters.com
    and
    ping chinascambusters.com
    and verify which IP it is trying to ping in each case

    Now you see it is not the same IP ?


    Anyway, this talk seems geeky for most who reads.
    I just thought you would appreciate some tech info which might help you in future (and you have 'Archæologist' in your title :) ).

    All of it could be just figured out without any lookups, but opening both blogs, scrolling down and verify it is on blogger.org network :)

    PS: i do not use web–based tools, they are not always do what i exactly want, they cache results, making some stupid assumptions on what i need, or their closest DNS level 1 server is misconfigured or also caching. I work directly in command line with exact DNS servers and registrars i need, exact requests what i need. I only use web based tools if i need to find some historical (past) record.
    And you have more tools than you need on your computer without going to 3rd party website.
    Last edited by NikSam; 02-14-2014 at 06:56 PM.

  6. #6
    NikSam is offline AntiCon Artist
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    Re: 2014 Work Abroad China Foreign Teacher Recruiter & School Scam Blacklist Available - Free

    Let me Quote what seems to be general opinion about so called CFTU in other forums, where they seem to appear:
    Quote Originally Posted by D-M
    The CFTU is a joke operation in these parts, with members (often the same person under a new identity) spamming these forums with ridiculous claims, spurious links and frankly misleading information. With this being your first post ... I sincerely hope you arent one of the CFTU people starting up another spam thread.

    Assuming you arent, and this is genuine .. let me assure you, using information from the CFTU to find a job is likely to be as useful as Hello Kitty phone cases are to solving the conflict in Afghanistan.

    When considering China, its probably wise to consider a region first ... then look closer and closer from there. Lots of helpful posts and people on this forum can give you more specific advice if you have a region, and a teaching sector, in mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by vikeologist
    The CFTU has been discussed a lot on this site, and the trouble is that there are lots of allegations about them.

    -It's alleged that the entire company was started by a known fraudster.
    -It's alleged that the company that owns the website is dodgy, and not upfront about its other activities. The idea that the CFTU is a group of foreign teachers doesn't seem borne out by the other activities of the parent company.
    -It's fairly clear that many of the comments on the internet in support of the company were made by fake identities, and it seems logical that the CFTU are the ones behind the fake identities.

    If you have time to kill, you can find details and links regarding all this on previous threads.

    Now, I really don't know what the truth is, but I am fairly certain that they are not entirely what they make themselves out to be. Hey, that's not unusual in China. This country does seem to be the place to come if you want to tell a story about yourself.

    Most of the links on the CFTU website regarding bad employers and recruiters are probably legit, or as legit as anything you're going to find on the web.

    Also, there seems to be absolutely no actual evidence of the CFTU ever trying to extort money from anyone or cheat anyone.

    I honestly don't know what the truth is. My guess is that there is one person behind it all, and he's a fantasist with too much time on his hands, who's actually provided a lot of very helpful information.

    However, the phalanx of fake identities on this site were quite troll-like and (the thing that wound me up) spread (either knowingly or through ignorance) a lot of false information, so just the mention of the CFTU is likely to make us greasy spooners start frothing at the mouth.

    URL: Job Discussion Forums :: View topic - The CFTU whitelist, has anyone actually seen it?

  7. #7
    nomaxim's Avatar
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    Re: 2014 Work Abroad China Foreign Teacher Recruiter & School Scam Blacklist Available - Free

    Quote Originally Posted by NikSam View Post
    Let me Quote what seems to be general opinion about so called CFTU in other forums, where they seem to appear:





    URL: Job Discussion Forums :: View topic - The CFTU whitelist, has anyone actually seen it?
    Yes, young padawan.
    In fact, if you had done a bit of research into previous posts by 'Seattle' you would have found that I reached that same conclusion about 8 months ago.

    PS
    And may I suggest a bit more research.
    View Profile: nomaxim - RealScam.com - Is it, or isn't it? You Decide.
    Quote Originally Posted by NikSam View Post
    Anyway, this talk seems geeky for most who reads.
    I just thought you would appreciate some tech info which might help you in future (and you have 'Archæologist' in your title :) ).
    Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. -C. Darwin

  8. #8
    Seattle is offline Member
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    Re: 2014 Work Abroad China Foreign Teacher Recruiter & School Scam Blacklist Available - Free

    Just curious why "No Maxim" was banned at Scam.com? Also, I believe it is the same group of 4 or 5 people who keep bashing the CFTU, yet none of them claim to be members - now nor in the past. I also don't see anyone post the praise and compliments people have made about the CFTU online. Whatever the case may be, I have examined every inch of their website and cannot see where they sell or promote as single product or service. Everything they offer is for free. There are dozens of ESL/TEFL forums that purport to "help" teachers yet all they do is spam them to death with offers to buy:

    * TEFL Courses
    * Chinese Lessons
    * Books
    * Travel Insurance
    * Visa Services
    * Job Placements
    * Escorts
    * Apartments
    * Satellite TV
    * Electronics
    * VPN Service
    * Calling Cards

    And THEN they sell their contact info to someone else and we end up getting a shitload of spam in our inbox! I personally did six months of volunteer work for the CFTU in 2012 and attended about a dozen meetings - all the staff are volunteer expats (they do not allow Chinese unless it is ABC, CBC, etc.) Since my wife got pregnant I was not able to spend any more time with the bunch. I enjoyed their company, support their goals and their methods, which at first I thought were aggressive, but not any more after I read the posts and horror stories all over the internet. (Read the Katherine Cox story involving China ESL and Rebecca Tang and you will see what I mean). Best wishes for the new year to you all.

  9. #9
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    Re: 2014 Work Abroad China Foreign Teacher Recruiter & School Scam Blacklist Available - Free

    nomaxim got banned be cause they could think for themself.

  10. #10
    littleroundman is offline Administrator
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    Re: 2014 Work Abroad China Foreign Teacher Recruiter & School Scam Blacklist Available - Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Seattle View Post
    Just curious why "No Maxim" was banned at Scam.com?
    HeHe, I think you may be misreading the situation.

    Being banned from there is more like a badge of honour than an embarrassment or penalty.

    Some of the nicest and most dedicated to exposing fraud posters on the 'net have suffered the same fate.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  11. #11
    nomaxim's Avatar
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    Re: 2014 Work Abroad China Foreign Teacher Recruiter & School Scam Blacklist Available - Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Seattle View Post
    Just curious why "No Maxim" was banned at Scam.com?
    You sure about that.
    Looks like I was just logged in there to me.
    scam.com/member.php?u=48107
    Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. -C. Darwin

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    Re: 2014 Work Abroad China Foreign Teacher Recruiter & School Scam Blacklist Available - Free

    Rather interesting news article at chinadailymail.com/2013/07/14/china-targets-foreigners-through-expat-websites/
    China targets foreigners through expat websites
    Posted by Craig Hill ⋅ July 14, 2013


    For many years, China have used paid contributors on internet forums to shape commentary in favour of China, and to belittle the west (China’s government hires people to distort web conversations).

    These contributors are known in Chinese as wumao, and often create elaborate fraudulent identities. Now they have taken it a step further, by creating fictitious expat websites, and taking over established ones.

    .............

    Editor’s Note: The China Foreign Teacher’s Union (CFTU) is another organisation that employs such tactics to entrap foreign teachers – China Foreign Teachers Union is just another scam
    Expat Warnings | China Daily Mail
    Expat Warnings

    China does not have “rule of law” like most western countries, and the Chinese government has a strong suspicion of anybody or anything foreign. This is based on the perceived “century of humiliation” – the hundred years that China was colonised by western powers, until “liberated” by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP).

    In modern times, it sometimes appears to anyone non-Chinese that the Chinese are out to make “foreigners” atone for the “crimes” of their ancestors. This may or may not actually be the case, but there are things in China that expats need to be aware of.

    Some of these things are listed below. Expats should be aware that Chinese courts rarely find in favour of a foreign person, business or organisation. Therefore, it is best to avoid trouble, rather than expecting legal remedy as in the west:

    New Visa Laws – An analysis of the new visa laws, July 1, 2013

    Dangers of Expat Websites – CCP uses expat websites to trap unsuspecting expats

    Wumaos – The Chinese government employs posters on expat forums to distort or detract from opinions

    China Foreign Teachers Union (CFTU) – Fake union that uses expat websites to trap unsuspecting expats

    Fraudulent Schools – “Foreign partnership” education programs that are often international employment or immigration scams
    Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. -C. Darwin

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    Re: 2014 Work Abroad China Foreign Teacher Recruiter & School Scam Blacklist Available - Free

    I just found another great blacklist for China at Wolf Watch | Keeping The Sheep Safe 24/7

  14. #14
    Seattle is offline Member
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    Re: 2014 Work Abroad China Foreign Teacher Recruiter & School Scam Blacklist Available - Free

    Concerning the CFTU bashers, I think people at the ESL & TEFL forums have already proven that most of them are China job agents & recruiters who have already been outed as shysters and are blacklisted not only by the CFTU but others. One of the guys at eslcafe even admitted he has been a recruiter for years. The below is cut and pasted from esl.base.com. So if I was some slick recruiter exposed by the CFTU or anyone else, I certainly would do my best to discredit them.

    "This seems to be a growing trend guys. First they were spotted at Echinacities, then ESLteachercafe, and now at eslcafe.com as well. Unlicensed recruiters are posing as "fellow teachers" and giving advice to use blacklisted recruiters and even sending PMs offering to "help" you. The sneaky recruiters were identified by China Scam Report as the following user names (probably not their real names):

    The_Kong

    Bud Powell

    Banner41

    Kong actually slipped and admitted it after years of denial on page 27 of this thread: http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic ... &start=390

    Bud Powell threatens any user they will be banned if your bring up subjects of recruiter fraud, Z visa requirements, or paid advertisers on the eslcafe website who have been blacklisted for years. If you look at the comments of all these users below who tried to expose this threesome of lurking recruiters, Bud threatened them all, and sure enough, all were banned within a few days!

    Biz Liz

    Mellow Fellow

    RWA1981

    Buckeye Bob

    Hmmmmm

    True Blue

    Wo Dong

    Juice

    You will also notice that the moderator of the China section will "lock" any thread if people get specific about who cheated them and try to post links with the proof to copies of contracts. At Echinacities, they just delete the entire thread! Anyway, ELS/TEFL China job applicants should not trust any expat forum that deliberately censors and bans users just to protect unethical advertisers who have a long history of cheating teachers who are recruited through fake users who are really China job recruiters. You can read more about these masquerades at Home and http://chinascampatrol.wordpress.com

    The best part is they even have a "sticky" from admin that says anyone who asks WHY a thread was locked or WHY their comment was deleted or WHY a user was banned - will be banned themselves! Can you smell this coffee?"


    There is also a lot about this subject at http://chinascamwatch.org

    Last edited by Seattle; 12-17-2014 at 12:19 AM.

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    Re: 2014 Work Abroad China Foreign Teacher Recruiter & School Scam Blacklist Available - Free


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