Wrong? From whose perspective? Your's? Society's? This scene operates outside the social norms.
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One can look at it from the point of view of nature.
somethings are always wrong. for example abusing a child. Yes there are those who say "if society decided (child abuse/rape/gassing concentration camp inmates) was okay then it would be acceptable"
Natural Law would say clearly it would NOT be right it would always be wrong. that in the absence of laws about it what the Nazis did was wrong. In fact the Nazis made laws which in fact said what they were doing was right. They made these laws in their own democratically elected parliament.
So the idea of "social norms" while appealing are not absolutes. Yes people should respect peoples traditions but if those traditions support child abuse rape slavery or genocide then they are wrong.
So where does this lead us? Well it isn't from my perspective or yours or anyones relative subjective perspective. Nor indeed from any societies perspective. What they are doing is wrong, just as exterminating people was wrong when Nazis did it. That is called the "natural law" argument and gets around the "ther is no law against it so it cant be wrong" issue and the arguments of moral relativism and subjective norms.
that said i dont think the instigators of Banners Broker put as much thought into their ethics as the Greek Philosophers or Early Christians or fathers of democracy put into their systems.
But one does not have to become evil in order to understand evil. I dont like using words like "evil" because it may well bog us down in "really understanding" what is meant by "evil" and the subjective argument of personal interpretations of "evil" but I think I have shown the counter argument against moral relativism. In order to assert a "real understanding" you would have to begin by saying that the thing you understand is the same thing that they do and can be objectively described and /or measured. So in a sense you yourself have already rejected moral relativism.
But more to the point I would argue BB management are aware of the wrong but chose to ignore it because they dont care about the harm they do to others if it wins them money. The argument that they suspend ethics I reject. One for example could claim some Nazis who were totally sane believed in the cause and thought they were making the world better. These were few in number. Most knew they were persecuting others but didnt care because it meant they were living off the suffering of others e.g. inheriting the local Jew's big house when they "sent the family away".
Didn't they just say it was going to be 'business days' and not weekends days about a week ago?Quote:
There seems to have been a little confusion over this option, so to help alleviate that confusion we have re-worded the payout 'day limit' to read 'calendar days' as opposed to 'work days', which seemed to be the source of that confusion.
All Ponzi's are lies. Everything about them is a lie. There is nothing truthful about them. It is stealing, and it makes no difference from what perspective you want to look at it. These are not real businesses. Their whole purpose is to steal as much money they can while pretending to be a real business and the illusion they are telling the truth.
There are players and promoters/pimps who have no conscious and could care less they are stealing as long as they get theirs; no matter what the cost to others.They lie just like the admins lie, and in some cases even more than the admin lies. Whatever it takes to make sure they get theirs they will do. The promoters and players are just as guilty as the admions who run these Ponzi's. They deserve to go to prison just like the admins do, and hopefully starting with Zeek that will begin to happen. For until it does, these will never go away. They need to know if you play you will pay.
The moment the Ken Russo's, Faith Sloans, Strosdegoz, Rayda Roundy, Sara Mattoon, Barb Alford, Laura Pont, Aaron-Shara, Barb McIntrye, Arnie Strom, Chad Foss, Brad Weinman, Terralynn Hoy, Todd Disner, Dwight Schweitzer, Robert Fava, Pastor Troy Winters, Clarence Busby, Nanci Jo Frazer, Frabi, racer, Blondie, and the list goes on and on are made to pay for their involvement, the sooner these Ponzi's will disappear.
As an aside, or looking at this communication in a different light
- new option, Executive, new panel level, change of payment method for India ( not been paid since Nov???) all require major IT team to coordinate
- if 30% of affiliates looked to withdraw once a month, that would be 100,000 requests, currently being done manually, large volume support ticket team required
- catching up on payouts, that is, payza, STP, US bank deposits, never mind the mastercard! another team of data entry required
- ID's up to date, phew, the uploaders finished, what another massive undertaking in terms of resources.
- BB credit cards, can only go from 'manual to automated' having been manually imputed first, another team of busy bees.
the point I'm trying to make here, Stellarpoint claim to be the PR arm of BB, so they are not staffing the business, therefore, BB must have a business employing real people to do all they say they are doing. So, where are all these staff? Where are they working from? This is not a rhetorical question, I think I know the answer, but anyone doing due diligence, please stop and think this through!
BTW, US BANK DEPOSITS?? US? Thought they couldn't operate there?
All this Ponzi malarkey is new to me but quite fascinating. Judging by the incredible proliferation of YouTube videos – 23,000-plus, with dozens more being uploaded every day – there appears to be life in BB yet. Some have hundreds of thousands of views, a couple more than a million. That’s just the results from an English-language search “Banners Broker”. Quite a few Cyrillic alphabet results, but there must be thousands more in Arabic and various other languages and alphabets. Add to that all the blogs, Facebook pages and Twitter accounts and that’s an overwhelming amount of propaganda. It must be enough to maintain a steady stream of new income. After that it’s a question of maintaining the illusion by distributing “earnings” on a geographically optimum basis. I’m sure somebody, maybe a computer genius, could work out an algorithm for that.
Some of the pitches are hilarious: “What I want to do is give you a brief overview of how Banners Broker actually works and it is very, very simple... What I want you to do is not dig around at the roots but to pick the flowers. Because if you were to try and work out just how Banners Broker manage to do this you’ll never do it in a million years. It is very simple and I want to keep it as simple as I possibly can.” Quite.
Banners Broker Scam - Ignorance is Bliss?
The most slick pitch is the Leadership Call hosted by David Hooker on January 21 which has been re-posted numerous times and, it appears, dubbed into other languages. It aims to anticipate objections, for example: “97 per cent of revenue from Google comes from advertising, about 37.3 billion dollars. Yet they don’t really have a product.” It all seems almost plausible, if you can stand Hooker’s unctuous delivery, up until about fifteen minutes in when the legerdemain happens. By then most people will have been bamboozled enough to make their excuses and leave. Just kidding! Quite the opposite unfortunately.
2013-01-21 Leadership Call - Hosted by David Hooker
However, you won’t find the most relevant YouTube video under a “Banners Broker” search. It’s actually the video that any prospective “affiliate” must watch!
DePonzification 101 – Lesson #1
If you can’t figure out how that might apply to you, then by all means sign up at once. Because you’re worth it. No, really. :RpS_smile:
You'd think that Chad Foss and the others would have learned a lesson after the CEP clawbacks.....
SEC v. Colon End Parenthesis Trust LLC
That's the rub. Chad did learn, and learned well. You see, Foss was a net winner of just shy of $46,000 but only had to pay back $20,000 on an initial investment of less than $500. So while the investors who were net losers got back I think about 3-5% of what they put in, Shad got to keep all of his investment and $26,000 profit. He didn't get slapped down, he just had to give up less than half his profit. Had he been a net loser, he would have gotten back $15-$25, but instead he got $26,000.
I like Bill Perkins, and at the time it was revolutionary for someone to go after the net winners for clawbacks, but letting them keep a single penny turned out to be a bad idea. All that it did was establish that if they fought the receiver, they end up keeping most of their stolen money.
I started a new post, but still on the same rant.
As I said, CEP was the first time I recall that the winners faced clawbacks. But look at the various settlements made. Dustin Fennel (who was the admin of another ponzi that collapsed and he folded his downlines into CEP) "made" $104,000 and only had to pay back $30,000. Dustin put NO MONEY of his own into the scheme, he just delivered the sheep from his own failed ponzi and in the end kept $74,000!
Marvin Bailey (who had accounts also for his wife and son) was in profit to $77,000 and paid back only $4,400 (no there is not a typo with a digit missing there) keeping 82% of his ill gotten profits.
Greg Ducket and wife Mary made $98,000 and got to keep $97,000 of it. That's just an outrage.
Go read the documents section of the CEP site, look for the 3 "proposed settlements" but I warn you, it might very well make you sick.
I couldn't agree with you more, Gregg.
From the outside, it "seems" there has been a hardening of attitudes, both from the authorities and receivers in the past few prosecutions.
One can only hope someone, somewhere has realized the enormity of the problems being created for world economies by the HYIP ponzi "industry" and decided enough is enough.
IM(very)HO, the involvement of the Presidents' Task Force on organized crime and money laundering in the last few HYIP prosecutions is an encouraging sign the times are indeed a changin'
Still trying to find out what the max a member could take out in a month if he used more than one method? (if that is allowed)
Also, do people remember when they decided that you had to give 3 months notice of a withdrawal of over 10k, was that per month or per payment?
It's not a big deal.Believe me, it's quite easy.Anything you do or say to others just ask yourself - would you like the same done or said to you by others?If I would be faced with challenge to create a program like BB ,the first thing I would take in consideration is - would I like (would I feel good) to be recruited by who knows whom with my money invested by knowing all possible consequences?
Mate tells me that every time he signs in, the bit about synchronisation takes place regardless. There is an option to skip that... but you don't get to hit it as by that time it's finished synchronising.......
So now they're putting through the activation fee? Wonder how many affiliates that little move will put into a "negative balance"Quote:
Activation Fee
January 30, 2013, 9:41 amPreviously, the $35 BannersBroker Prepaid Master Card Activation Fee had not been being charged. On January 29th, all affiliates that have an active card were charged this fee.
There is a good British saying about organising a drinking session in a place that makes beer (this is the polite version) and it strikes me that BB are totally incapable to doing anything. I know you'll all say this is part and parcel of the ponzi scheme, but surely some of the affiliates must be waking up and smelling the coffee???
*Sigh*
I think you're missing the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by AshKen1
At this stage, Banners Broker WANTS to shake off members.
The real money has been made, any money coming in now is cream to those behind Banners Broker.
The more members who drop out of their "own" accord, the better it will be for Banners Broker when the inevitable collapse finally happens.
Anyone want information on the Advertising Co-ordinator option?
Hit the nail on the head, Ashken1, what a bunch of thievin' bastards, I thought I'd be slugged the anticipated $35 fee about the time I received my BB card, on or around the time I received and activated the card, but SIX months down the track???? WTF???? That's it, shut them down. They're obviously a scam! How dare they give interest-free credit to their affiliates for 6 months on the $35 card fee???? I been a "premium member" since december but haven't been slugged the appropriate $100 per month premium member charge, just the once last month, but not retrospective for the previous five months. How dare they extend interest-free credit to their affiliates on fees and charges disclosed to them at the point of sale. I can only hope the authorities act swiftly on this unauthorized act of generosity.