Thread: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam

Originally Posted by noname999

A message for Draconic in case he is reading: The reason that they are not running is because people are still giving them money. Otherwise they would be gone. Also, try not to get so fixated on Chris. He is only a figurehead. Guilty sure, but not the only one.

You are right that he is a figurehead, though he is also the one pushing the buttons and creating Excel sheets to upload to payment processors.

There's (apparently) multiple investigations ongoing in multiple countries, hopefully the investigators have the resources needed to identify all the admins... though chances are with these ponzi programs, the creators were prepared well in advance for the inevitable collapse in 2-3 years. Offshore banking and careful selection of which country to set up shop in.

I honestly don't think he is. Nothing is as it seems. The excel sheet does not exist. It is just another lie. Chris(or whatever his name is) is involved and knows its a scam. That is why he is guilty. i think that is where it ends though. the people pulling the strings we may never know. Probably would not like to know.

Originally Posted by noname999

I honestly don't think he is. Nothing is as it seems. The excel sheet does not exist. It is just another lie. Chris(or whatever his name is) is involved and knows its a scam. That is why he is guilty. i think that is where it ends though. the people pulling the strings we may never know. Probably would not like to know.

....and this would be the whole internal BB knowledge that will probably remain secret

The focus has been on Smith, That was their agenda. Pushing "Chris Smith sole owner of banners broker". You dont hear much of, or comments about Dixit these days, or the other founders.
There is obviously a team of shady characters behind BB. And some of the same characters are behind other shady schemes. Not to mention the research on here about payment processor being set up at the same time BB launched. Smith has been pushed out front, and become the sole focus of attention.

Originally Posted by Jerrygo

The focus has been on Smith, That was their agenda. Pushing "Chris Smith sole owner of banners broker". You dont hear much of, or comments about Dixit these days, or the other founders.
There is obviously a team of shady characters behind BB. And some of the same characters are behind other shady schemes. Not to mention the research on here about payment processor being set up at the same time BB launched. Smith has been pushed out front, and become the sole focus of attention.

It was telling that Lorenzo Guarini boasted, whilst in the UK, of being one of group of (iirc) six that started BB,most, if not all, of whom appear to have ben part of the previous ICFWorld Homes scam....

Originally Posted by Theseus

It was telling that Lorenzo Guarini boasted, whilst in the UK, of being one of group of (iirc) six that started BB,most, if not all, of whom appear to have ben part of the previous ICFWorld Homes scam....

Yes. And Raj now insists that he is just "the sole Reseller for Canada ". And an employee of Chris.
I'm not buying that and I hope that the authorities who are investigating bb don't fall for that. Raj's signiture was on bb from day 1, when he tried to sell us this "passive cycler doubler". "investment", in which it "is impossible not to make money"
The authorities might not be able to ferret out any organised crime partners he might have. But surely Raj and co will have their collars felt this time.
I know the Canadian authorities have a terrible reputation for stopping scams from their jurisdiction. But surely this time they cant avoid acting.

Originally Posted by Jerrygo

Yes. And Raj now insists that he is just "the sole Reseller for Canada ". And an employee of Chris.
I'm not buying that and I hope that the authorities who are investigating bb don't fall for that. Raj's signiture was on bb from day 1, when he tried to sell us this "passive cycler doubler". "investment", in which it "is impossible not to make money"
The authorities might not be able to ferret out any organised crime partners he might have. But surely Raj and co will have their collars felt this time.
I know the Canadian authorities have a terrible reputation for stopping scams from their jurisdiction. But surely this time they cant avoid acting.

I may be wrong but seriously doubt you saw Raj's signature on any BB official documents. He's not a stupid man. I am not defending Raj, but let's get the facts straight. Raj owns Stellar Point and not BB. SP has a contract with BB to supply services and is a totally separate company from BB. That is not against the law. SP is legally registered corporation offering various services. There is no mention of BB on its website and they are offering services other than support for BB. It was set-up like this so that it would be very difficult for the Canadian authorities to shut down SP. Chris is the sole owner of BB and the company is registered in the Isle of Man, a self-governing dependency of the British Crown. If any country should be shutting down BB it is the UK. Canada cannot shut down a foreign corporation.

I don't know where you get your information from but I haven't seen anything (other than your post) that states that the Canadian authorities have a terrible reputation for stopping scams. It was the Canadian government that stopped ICF a few years ago as well as several other scams that were making the rounds in Canada. Currently BB/Stellar Point are being investigated by the Ontario Securities Commission so they are doing something. I don't know what country you are from but is your government investigating BB? If not, why not?

Ken. BB existed before Stellar point. And before the isle of man office. No I have not seen Raj's signature on BB documents. Untill recently Raj was described as chief operating officer of Banners Broker International , on bb's own propaganda.
In July last year he stated "Bannersbroker Limited is the Canadian Reseller for Banners Broker International. Rajiv Dixit is the sole Reseller for Canada" .
Now he is "C.E.O. at STELLAR POINT INC" Just because he has been distancing himself does not absolve him.
As regards the Canadian authorities reputation for stopping scams. I have been told that the action in US against scammers and pyramid schemes is much more agressive than in Canada. I take that advice at face value, but I am open to your contradiction on that, if you know better. But I believe that is the reason BB does not have an office in US, and does not include it on their world tours.

Originally Posted by Jerrygo

Ken. BB existed before Stellar point. And before the isle of man office. No I have not seen Raj's signature on BB documents. Untill recently Raj was described as chief operating officer of Banners Broker International , on bb's own propaganda.
In July last year he stated "Bannersbroker Limited is the Canadian Reseller for Banners Broker International. Rajiv Dixit is the sole Reseller for Canada" .
Now he is "C.E.O. at STELLAR POINT INC" Just because he has been distancing himself does not absolve him.
As regards the Canadian authorities reputation for stopping scams. I have been told that the action in US against scammers and pyramid schemes is much more agressive than in Canada. I take that advice at face value, but I am open to your contradiction on that, if you know better. But I believe that is the reason BB does not have an office in US, and does not include it on their world tours.

Banners Broker Limited was a Canadian corporation with Raj as the owner. It was a different corporation than Banners Broker International which is owned by Chris Smith. Banners Broker Limited changed its name to Stellar Point and is the exclusive reseller in Canada and world-wide support for BB International. I didn't say it absolved him but he cannot be held legally responsible for BB International, an offshore corporation. I agree SP is guilty of promoting BB scams but so is every affiliate that recruits members into the scam.

As far as scams there are a lot more scams originating in the USA than in Canada. Whoever told you Canada doesn't take scams seriously and doesn't investigate them obviously knows very little about Canada. BB doesn't have an office in the US but neither does it have an office in Canada - same reasons.

I think I have entered the twilight zone here. So you equate Raj's responsibility to that of an affiliate? Ken, are you saying that Raj is REALLY not responsible, and not a part of BB. Or are you saying that the OSC will not be able to find him responsible because of the smoke and mirrors of him disguising his role with BB?
I really dont believe that OSC will be fooled by all the changing of names and titles.
As regards Canadian authorities look at post 10380. I value littleroundman's knowlege on this, as a veteran scambuster.

I would like to chime in here as someone from the US. As a currency trader, I can state that the US has very LONG arms when it comes to law. When new legislation was passed in the US regarding currency brokers worldwide in 2010, the CFTC arm of the US government quickly swooped in and disallowed US citizens from having ANY foreign trading accounts.

When I investigated by contacting the CFTC directly, I was politely told that the US has "agreements" with many governments to clamp down on individuals and companies when large amounts of money are moving around.

Further, based on my experience and understanding, the US does not care where a company is allegedly domiciled. If it does business with US citizens and too many complaints are received, they can then ask for another country's "co-operation" in shutting the firm down.

What amazes me with BB is that it is taking ANY authority this long to shut it down. By the time there is any action, there will most likely be no money left.

I also understand from reading various forums and seeing the apparent evidence that BB and SP are a series of shell companies. I would hope any authorities could see through this sleight of hand.

Mark

Originally Posted by marsh56

What amazes me with BB is that it is taking ANY authority this long to shut it down. By the time there is any action, there will most likely be no money left.

I sort of understand it within a few versions of why.

Of course there is the limited resource thing and I would also say a limited skill set, for instance why would Made-off run so long when a decent audit would have uncovered his fraud? Obviously the SEC has limitations, but it also has a revolving door of talent. Not may of us would take a $60,000 a year government job when we could be paid several times that in the private sector. So there is a huge talent drain. And I don't mean this to be negative, just a sort of broad brush observation.

Second, why is Raj or any of the other actors even walking the streets after ICF or any number of other scams. If he had been selling a little pot to pay the bills he may well still be in jail. But steal millions, stash it away, rinse and repeat. Priorities are all messed up when it comes to white collar crime, it really does pay.

This has been the biggest eye opener for me, sans a few true victims, many of the folks in BB were in Zeek, PS, Ads blah blah blah, etc. Why bother? I care about warning people but only up to a point. At the end of the day, if a guy says "hold my beer and watch this" he deserves whatever might happen.

Finally, when the government does move it and shut something down there is a trail of tears about big gubmit shutting a good thing. It was paying (not so much with BB), no one was complaining. They rant an rave for a few months and then jump to Rippln, so what to do?

Originally Posted by Jerrygo

I think I have entered the twilight zone here. So you equate Raj's responsibility to that of an affiliate? Ken, are you saying that Raj is REALLY not responsible, and not a part of BB. Or are you saying that the OSC will not be able to find him responsible because of the smoke and mirrors of him disguising his role with BB?
I really dont believe that OSC will be fooled by all the changing of names and titles.
As regards Canadian authorities look at post 10380. I value littleroundman's knowlege on this, as a veteran scambuster.

Did I say Raj was not responsible for promoting BB? I believe I said exactly the opposite. Is Raj a part of BB? Sure as a reseller in Canada and world-wide support. I do not know what the OSC will find and neither do you. We will find out when the investigation is complete. As for affiliates, by law, if they knowingly promote and recruit affiliates into a Ponzi they are as guilty as the owners themselves. Without recruitment there would be no BB.

Since in your opinion the Canadian authorities don't do anything to stop schemes such as BB (even though they are investigating them) what USA authorities are investigating BB? Canada, like the USA, work with foreign countries and do have agreements with many countries to track and stop money laundering and other fraudulent schemes. There is very little difference. I think when making statements, such as Canada having a bad reputation when it comes to fighting fraudulent schemes, should be backed up by facts. If it's your opinion say so.

Here are some of the world's largest Ponzi schemes that took many years before being shut down:
1.In 2003, the SEC shut down a $1 billion scheme by Mutual Benefits Company in Florida
2.In 2004, the SEC fined Raymond James $6.9 million for failure to supervise former broker Dennis Herula, who was accused of participating with others in a Ponzi scheme that raised about $44.5 million from investors in 1999-2000.
3.In May 2006, James Paul Lewis, Jr. was sentenced to 30 years in federal prison for running a $311 million Ponzi scheme over a 20 year period.
4. On August 1, 2008, the WexTrust Investment firm was shut down by the SEC, charging that WexTrust and two of its owners (Joseph Shereshevsky of Norfolk, Virginia and Steven Byers of Oak Brook, Illinois) operated a Ponzi-type scheme by promising unusually high returns to earlier investors and paying them with money raised from later investors.
5. On December 10, 2008, Bernard Madoff made an admission to his sons that his investments were "all one big lie". The following day he was arrested and charged with a single count of securities fraud.[46] As of December 2008 the losses were estimated to be $65 billion, making it the largest investor fraud in history.

I just mentioned the above to show that contrary to your statement that fraudsters don't have offices in the US because they fear of being shut down. The majority of the world's largest Ponzi's originated in the USA, and that is a fact (List of Ponzi schemes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Not a single one on the list is from Canada.

There, I've said my 2centsworth. I'm done with this topic.

Originally Posted by ribshaw

I sort of understand it within a few versions of why.

Of course there is the limited resource thing and I would also say a limited skill set, for instance why would Made-off run so long when a decent audit would have uncovered his fraud? Obviously the SEC has limitations, but it also has a revolving door of talent. Not may of us would take a $60,000 a year government job when we could be paid several times that in the private sector. So there is a huge talent drain. And I don't mean this to be negative, just a sort of broad brush observation.

Second, why is Raj or any of the other actors even walking the streets after ICF or any number of other scams. If he had been selling a little pot to pay the bills he may well still be in jail. But steal millions, stash it away, rinse and repeat. Priorities are all messed up when it comes to white collar crime, it really does pay.

This has been the biggest eye opener for me, sans a few true victims, many of the folks in BB were in Zeek, PS, Ads blah blah blah, etc. Why bother? I care about warning people but only up to a point. At the end of the day, if a guy says "hold my beer and watch this" he deserves whatever might happen.

Finally, when the government does move it and shut something down there is a trail of tears about big gubmit shutting a good thing. It was paying (not so much with BB), no one was complaining. They rant an rave for a few months and then jump to Rippln, so what to do?

I agree about the lack of resources being a problem for authorities. The amount of scams running is now enormous. Anyone can buy an mlm script now for $40, and set up a scam website. Or a ready to go website for a few hundred$.
On All You Need To Know About MLM (Is MLM a Scam?) there is a list of mlm and related "opportunities" Looks to be a thousand or more on there.
The author did a detailed analysis on just the first section, and found that 70% of them were either "a/closed or b/ were prosecuted by US regulatory authorities and state Attorneys General for running pyramid schemes or related crimes."
The sheer number of scams is a problem for any authority to get to grips with. At least BB is getting checked out at last. Just a pity it took so long.

Originally Posted by Ken Roklin

Banners Broker Limited was a Canadian corporation with Raj as the owner. It was a different corporation than Banners Broker International which is owned by Chris Smith.

Actually there's no mention anywhere, as far as I can ascertain, of Chris Smith owning BBI,. He may well do, but I seriously doubt it. My money says it's either Dixit who is behind the whole scam (his past record and the BB Limited/Stellar Point set-up being the main pointers), or that there is an unseen "Mr Big" further up the foodchain.

If we were talking about "ponzis" then Ken is completely correct.

But, we're not.

We're talking about HYIPs which are a combination of ponzi and pyramid AND in comparison to Madoff et al are minute in comparison.

Law enforcement IS overworked, understaffed and underpaid, especially since 9/11 when a large number of resources were reallocated to "the war on terror"

By necessity LE agencies have to "ration" their scarce resources and most of them do so based on monetary value.

IOW, when compared to Zeek Rewards or Bernard Madoff type "ponzi" frauds or those mentioned by Ken above, most HYIPs could be considered penny ante.

When it comes to HYIP fraud, Canada IS notoriously slow to act.

The relatively recent Nick Smirnow / Pathway to Prosperity example springs immediately to mind as an example of how inactivity by Canadian authorities lead to massive public losses.

It should also be remembered that the HYIP ponzi pushers' favourite payment processor, SolidTrustPay continues to operate with apparent impunity from Canada.

Take out the payment processors .. tell utube and F/B that they will be fined for allowing scams on their sites..

Originally Posted by Arthur Foxache

Take out the payment processors .. tell utube and F/B that they will be fined for allowing scams on their sites..

Not an easy task,I guess - they will say - tell (the law) us what is scam and we shall act...and then you are again on the begining

Originally Posted by littleroundman

If we were talking about "ponzis" then Ken is completely correct.

But, we're not.

We're talking about HYIPs which are a combination of ponzi and pyramid AND in comparison to Madoff et al are minute in comparison.

Law enforcement IS overworked, understaffed and underpaid, especially since 9/11 when a large number of resources were reallocated to "the war on terror"

By necessity LE agencies have to "ration" their scarce resources and most of them do so based on monetary value.

IOW, when compared to Zeek Rewards or Bernard Madoff type "ponzi" frauds or those mentioned by Ken above, most HYIPs could be considered penny ante.

When it comes to HYIP fraud, Canada IS notoriously slow to act.

The relatively recent Nick Smirnow / Pathway to Prosperity example springs immediately to mind as an example of how inactivity by Canadian authorities lead to massive public losses.

It should also be remembered that the HYIP ponzi pushers' favourite payment processor, SolidTrustPay continues to operate with apparent impunity from Canada.

HYIP, illegal pyramids, Ponzi - they are all the same except for the amounts involved. Fraud is fraud.

Since you mentioned Smirnow and Pathway to Prosperity - it was a Phillipine who lived briefly in Ontario and the Canadians assisted the US in the investigation: " This case was investigated by the US Postal Inspection Service - Chicago Division, with substantial assistance ....from the Ontario Provincial Police in Canada....... Assistance was also provided by .....the Ontario Securities Commission Canada."

Why does Payza still have an office in New York? Shouldn't the US have shut them down by now?

Originally Posted by Theseus

Actually there's no mention anywhere, as far as I can ascertain, of Chris Smith owning BBI,. He may well do, but I seriously doubt it. My money says it's either Dixit who is behind the whole scam (his past record and the BB Limited/Stellar Point set-up being the main pointers), or that there is an unseen "Mr Big" further up the foodchain.

I have documented evidence of Chris Smith being the official signatory for Banners Broker International. The problem is I cannot publish it online as I have signed a document stating I have to keep it secret. I received a full refund from Banners Broker when I threatened to take them to the Ontario Small Claims Court. They do not want to go to court it seems, so I would suggest any affiliate wanting their money back does the same thing.

Hmmmso what happens if you don't keep it a secret .. "Chris takes you to court

Originally Posted by justme

I have documented evidence of Chris Smith being the official signatory for Banners Broker International. The problem is I cannot publish it online as I have signed a document stating I have to keep it secret. I received a full refund from Banners Broker when I threatened to take them to the Ontario Small Claims Court. They do not want to go to court it seems, so I would suggest any affiliate wanting their money back does the same thing.

Hmmm so what happens if you don't keep it a secret .. "Chris takes you to court" .. that's sooo funnies..

Originally Posted by Ken Roklin

....

Why does Payza still have an office in New York? Shouldn't the US have shut them down by now?

I do not believe Payza has a NY office, where did they claim that ?

About shutting them down in US, what for ?
Payza is registered with FinCEN as MSB,

http://www.fincen.gov/financial_inst...tml?ID=3968930

so as long as they not caught violating terms, they are safe.

I believe they do not have a stand alone NYS license, but it is not big deal if they are federally FinCen registered, the state can only politely ask to register or cease serving it's residents.

Current list of NYS licensed Money Transmitters:
NYSDFS: Money Transmitters


STP is also registered with Fincen :
http://www.fincen.gov/financial_inst...tml?ID=3948263

And licensed in several Stand alone states

5 states, as i remember, requested STP to stop serving it's residents to which STP complied.


both Payza and STP licensed with canadian FinTRAC as well,

so they are not something like anarchist Perfect Money or Liberty Reserve.

Originally Posted by NikSam

I do not believe Payza has a NY office, where did they claim that ?

About shutting them down in US, what for ?
Payza is registered with FinCEN as MSB,

STP is also registered with Fincen :
http://www.fincen.gov/financial_inst...tml?ID=3948263

both Payza and STP licensed with canadian FinTRAC as well,

so they are not something like anarchist Perfect Money or Liberty Reserve.

The shutting down comment was in response to a post questioning why Canada hadn't shut down STP. I agree, there is no reason to shut down either of them unless they break the rules under which they operate.

Payza website:
Regional Offices
New York, USA
Mumbai, India
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Solna, Sweden

Originally Posted by Ken Roklin

I may be wrong but seriously doubt you saw Raj's signature on any BB official documents. He's not a stupid man. I am not defending Raj, but let's get the facts straight. Raj owns Stellar Point and not BB.

You are aware that up to this year Stellar Point was BB until it renamed itself. As such Raj ( and his wife Gloria) was a director of BB and partook in the setup of everything BB from its inception.

SP has a contract with BB to supply services and is a totally separate company from BB.

See above it isn't totally separate. No contract for services has ever been produced which indicates the contracting parties by the way. Claims have been made about contracts from BB International (Belize) to SP ( formerly BB) Canada . and who do you think are the directors and shareholders of BB Belize?

That is not against the law. SP is legally registered corporation offering various services. There is no mention of BB on its website and they are offering services other than support for BB. It was set-up like this so that it would be very difficult for the Canadian authorities to shut down SP.

Absolute nonsense. Do you really contend that not mentioning the company one is contracting to on a website is sufficient evidence to indemnify them from
liability?
And all the Canadian authorities need do is look at the 2012 accounts of SP and the prior 2011 and 2010 accounts when SP were BB.

Chris is the sole owner of BB and the company is registered in the Isle of Man,

As I understand it under UK law one man corporations do not exist. Althought it may have one shareholder It requires at least two directors,
Isle of Man Private Limited Company Information - OCRA Worldwide
Directors
Minimum number Two

a self-governing dependency of the British Crown. If any country should be shutting down BB it is the UK. Canada cannot shut down a foreign corporation.

and the effect of shutting down a non trading empty accounts nameplate company would be??? Let me guess about the same as telling the victims that Mastercard are not supporting BB?

I don't know where you get your information from but I haven't seen anything (other than your post) that states that the Canadian authorities have a terrible reputation for stopping scams. It was the Canadian government that stopped ICF a few years ago as well as several other scams that were making the rounds in Canada.

The information is quite obvious. BB are operating a scam since 2010 and they haven't been shut down. THe Canadian Ontario SC website lists the companies it investigated . They are limited as to the amount of cases decided upon.
OSC | Securities Law & Instruments - Orders, Rulings & Decisions

Currently BB/Stellar Point are being investigated by the Ontario Securities Commission so they are doing something. I don't know what country you are from but is your government investigating BB? If not, why not?

governments dont do that. Judicial elements of the state do it e.g. courts, tax inspectors, SEC etc. Most legal authorities require locus standi i.e. that the victim has to be directly affected. Most victims of a scam dont complain about it. the judicial process is painfully slow.

Originally Posted by justme

I have documented evidence of Chris Smith being the official signatory for Banners Broker International. The problem is I cannot publish it online as I have signed a document stating I have to keep it secret. I received a full refund from Banners Broker when I threatened to take them to the Ontario Small Claims Court. They do not want to go to court it seems, so I would suggest any affiliate wanting their money back does the same thing.

As far i know you cant be prosecuted for pubishing a legally publically available doccument. even if you were i doubt BB International would take you to court. And if they did
1 they would lose
2 they would have to declare who they are in court which they wont do as it would in any case confirm the thing they are trying to hide