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01-20-2014, 10:50 AM
#14026
Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Originally Posted by
Ken Roklin
In Ontario, small claims is up to $25,000. Since BB is not a registered corporation in Canada a person could file a claim against Chris personally and any other Directors if there are any.
That is a much more "user friendly" sum than what we have and seems a no lose situation for anyone who Chris has duped. Other than time and aggravation, but at this point what does that matter? Anyone who waited a year to be paid has the Patience of Job.
This is an informative link.
Before Making a Claim in Small Claims Court - Ministry of the Attorney General
This was good link on dishonest practices toward consumers, may be worth contacting the bar for how a "business owner" fits in to this equation.
Dishonest Business Practices and Schemes
===================================
One other option is for affiliates to treat their Panels as unpaid accounts receivable and go after Banners Broker for a business debt. I don't know that this makes collection any easier, and see some problems with the amorphous structure of BB, but it is infinitely easier to prove you are owed money than explain the massive fraud that is Banners Broker. The squeaky wheel gets the grease as they say.
Collecting Bills in Small Claims Court
Small claims court is particularly cost-effective for collecting unpaid bills because it eliminates the need for bill collectors and lawyers -- who often keep, as their fee, up to half of what they collect. Indeed, small claims court works so well that in many courts over 60% of the cases are filed by businesses. Because a substantial percentage of these claims are uncontested by the defendant (they know they owe the money and don't show up), little preparation or court time is needed. And best of all, many defendants who don't want their credit rating damaged pay voluntarily -- sometime between the time they receive a final demand letter threatening a small claims suit and the date a court judgment is entered.
Small Claims Court and Business Disputes | Nolo.com
==================================================
Since BB is by all standards a sham, it is not like serving a local merchant for an outstanding debt. (I don't want to imply this is an easy lift or even possible) But in my narrow mind, researching this angle beats playing Pat-a-Cake all day on the BB Facebook page hoping some money will be coming your way Friday after next.
Businesses
When it comes to suing a business in small claims court, you may sue any business that is organized (incorporated or established as an LLC) in your state.
In addition, you may bring suit against any business–whether incorporated or not–if one of the following conditions is true:
the business was responsible for injuring you or damaging your property in your state and you can find a way to serve your court papers on the business in your state
the business breaches a contract with you that was negotiated or was to be performed in your state and you can find a way to serve your court papers on the business in your state
the business has an office, warehouse, retail establishment, restaurant, or other physical facility here, even if that business is headquartered or organized elsewhere, or
the business does regular business in your state by selling products or services, employing a sales rep who calls on you personally or by phone to solicit business, sending you a catalog to solicit your business, or placing advertising in your state's media.
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encycloped...hapter9-2.html
Last edited by ribshaw; 01-20-2014 at 11:20 AM.
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01-20-2014, 03:53 PM
#14027
Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
[QUOTE=Beacon;65180]How come the judge didnt ask the clerk in open court and announce a date there and then?
This isn't how the small claims courts work in the UK. There is no clerk of court. The small claims court comprises the judge, defendant, claimant, and anywhere from 0-2 solicitors. That's it. The court shares a number of clerks who deal with the admin, but they are not present in the court rooms.
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01-21-2014, 04:08 AM
#14028
Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Originally Posted by
Ken Roklin
In Ontario, small claims is up to $25,000. Since BB is not a registered corporation in Canada a person could file a claim against Chris personally and any other Directors if there are any.
Interesting. You could claim against Stellar Point the directors are Raj and his ma.
Then Raj would be in the position of either Stellar Point accepting the claim and admitting that they were lying all along about Stellar Point not being Banners Broker or saying ( as they have ) that Stellar Point is NOT Banners Broker and they would then be personally liable.
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01-21-2014, 04:19 AM
#14029
Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Originally Posted by
ribshaw
I don't know that this makes collection any easier, and see some problems with the amorphous structure of BB,
I don't! Since every person who joined BB had to be "introduced" by their upline then their immediate upline provides a clear indication of who directly owes them money.
Since BB is by all standards a sham, it is not like serving a local merchant for an outstanding debt. (I don't want to imply this is an easy lift or even possible) But in my narrow mind, researching this angle beats playing Pat-a-Cake all day on the BB Facebook page hoping some money will be coming your way Friday after next.
If it does not get your money back because BB is a criminal sham "business" at the very least that would prove it is a fake and probably result in criminal prosecutions which the authorities will take for themselves rather than individuals having to devote time to.
When it comes to suing a business in small claims court, you may sue any business that is organized (incorporated or established as an LLC) in your state.
Which brings me back to either
1. Banners Broker is lying about it being a legitimate registered business in which case it is liable under the criminal law
or
2. Banners Broker is a registered business which means it is liable for a claim under civil law.
In addition, you may bring suit against any business–whether incorporated or not–if one of the following conditions is true:
the business was responsible for injuring you or damaging your property in your state and you can find a way to serve your court papers on the business in your state
the business breaches a contract with you that was negotiated or was to be performed in your state and you can find a way to serve your court papers on the business in your state
the business has an office, warehouse, retail establishment, restaurant, or other physical facility here, even if that business is headquartered or organized elsewhere, or
the business does regular business in your state by selling products or services, employing a sales rep who calls on you personally or by phone to solicit business, sending you a catalog to solicit your business, or
placing advertising in your state's media.
Suing Out-of-State Defendants in Small Claims Court | Nolo.com
If this is UK then the person with the "fifteen year lease " on the Manchester office is in trouble.
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01-21-2014, 06:33 AM
#14030
Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Havent been looking at the india situation for a while.
It seems ana's "husband" got the slammer at her behest.
Portuguese Flummoxed After Getting Jailed in Dowry Case - The New Indian Express
De Soure Bento was released on bail last week. In 52 days, he has lost 14 kg and is now wondering what the case was all about.
Well at least he lost some weight. How about all the people who lost all their money?
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01-21-2014, 09:57 AM
#14031
Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Originally Posted by
Beacon
Interesting. You could claim against Stellar Point the directors are Raj and his ma.
Then Raj would be in the position of either Stellar Point accepting the claim and admitting that they were lying all along about Stellar Point not being Banners Broker or saying ( as they have ) that Stellar Point is NOT Banners Broker and they would then be personally liable.
I think going after Stellar Point for money owed would be futile as the contract between affiliates is BB and not Stellar Point. In small claims you have to prove that the person you are suing owes you the money, not a third party. Raj had a contract with BB to provide a service and in court he would produce that document. Small Claims doesn't rule on whether or not Raj is BB but only on the amounts owed by the party and since affiliates don't have an agreement with SP Raj would win easily.
Why complicate things and waste time and money by going after Raj when you can go after Chris with whom affiliates have the contract? If the intent is to get your money owed then go after the person who owes it to you. If the intent is to prove SP is BB and ran a scam then you need to file a suit other than in small claims and you better have a lot more money than Raj does. He will use the money you and other affiliates contributed to BB to fight you and he probably has more than you do.
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01-21-2014, 10:18 AM
#14032
Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Originally Posted by
Beacon
I don't! Since every person who joined BB had to be "introduced" by their upline then their immediate upline provides a clear indication of who directly owes them money.
BB affiliates going after their upline is the most direct strategy.
In the US may be the only option. Unless there is a US address where Banners Broker can be served, I don't know if a US small claims court would have jurisdiction over a Canadian Shell registered in the Tropic of Shamiztain. (Or since Banners Broker as far as I can tell are operating illegally in the US, it may not matter much if the court did have authority)
=========================
In Canada where BB has physical offices that can be served, an affiliate may have two options. One being going after Chris Smith or other upliners directly. Or treating the debt as a business debt and going after Banners Broker the business. Even if they are operating illegally, it is harder for them to argue they don't do business in Canada. And the same would be true for any locale where BB has a physical office. But an affiliate may have an agreement that says all disputes must be mediated in the Isle of Scam.
All options are certainly worth exploring for an affiliate who is owed money, I just don't want to give the impression that it is a matter of filling out a form, smiling for Judge Judy, and getting reimbursed.
Originally Posted by
Beacon
Which brings me back to either
1. Banners Broker is lying about it being a legitimate registered business in which case it is liable under the criminal law
or
2. Banners Broker is a registered business which means it is liable for a claim under civil law.
Exactly right, and affiliates who wait for the answer will likely never see their panels turned back in to cash.
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01-21-2014, 10:46 AM
#14033
Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Originally Posted by
Ken Roklin
If the intent is to get your money owed then go after the person who owes it to you.
This makes the most sense IMO from a pure collection standpoint. Keeping it as clean and professional as possible (as much as that pains me), and with any luck obtaining a judgement. Then enforcing the judgement, or turning it over to an attorney who will. I suspect a lot of these upline leaders are deadbeats, so it may take some doing. As a business debt, BB affiliates with their eyes open should understand at this point they have almost certainly lost 100% of their money, anything they get back at this point is gravy.
My hope would be if affiliates start taking these things to court, word will spread in the legal community and the bigger questions answered and the necessary actions taken.
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01-21-2014, 02:57 PM
#14034
Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Not sure if this could be of much help but it seems to be one more place to report scams. -Action Fraud on 0300 123 2040. Action Fraud provides a central point of contact for information about fraud and financially motivated internet crime.
Instead of loving people and using money, people often love money and use people
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01-21-2014, 04:11 PM
#14035
Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Meanwhile, over on the BB Blog, Rockin'Ronnie is attempting to calm the restless mob with a piece entitled "Needing to know vs Being disappointed:
"There are many affiliates that are asking for a date for the release of BBv3. There are also many affiliates that are complaining that BBv3 wasn’t released when it was supposed to be.
People want a release date but are upset when that date is missed.
Creating a new platform and a method of transferring over hundreds of thousands of accounts is an incredibly complex process. The system in BBv2.9 and BBv3 are very different, that is the reason that makes the transition so important and necessary.
We are striving to release BBv3 to you but it needs to done properly. The Leaders have been instrumental in helping to make sure that the new system in BBv3 is fair and a way that both BB and its affiliates can succeed now and into the future.
For this reason, we hesitate to give a date because we would rather make sure that things are done right than done in a hurry. We are all working diligently to ensure that what is released is the best for everyone.
We thank you for your patience and your continued faith in Banners Broker."
I'm sure that will do the trick!
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01-21-2014, 04:19 PM
#14036
Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
But over on the BB Fb page, some people are getting restless.....
BBFB 21 Jan 14.jpg
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01-21-2014, 05:27 PM
#14037
Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Even the zealots are starting to get a clue.
I would be shocked if BBv3 was imaginary and just a mock up was done.
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01-21-2014, 05:56 PM
#14038
Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Originally Posted by
Ken Roklin
I think going after Stellar Point for money owed would be futile as the contract between affiliates is BB and not Stellar Point. In small claims you have to prove that the person you are suing owes you the money, not a third party. Raj had a contract with BB to provide a service and in court he would produce that document. Small Claims doesn't rule on whether or not Raj is BB but only on the amounts owed by the party and since affiliates don't have an agreement with SP Raj would win easily.
Why complicate things and waste time and money by going after Raj when you can go after Chris with whom affiliates have the contract? If the intent is to get your money owed then go after the person who owes it to you. If the intent is to prove SP is BB and ran a scam then you need to file a suit other than in small claims and you better have a lot more money than Raj does. He will use the money you and other affiliates contributed to BB to fight you and he probably has more than you do.
I believe there is a paper trail where banners broker changed their name to stellar point.
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01-21-2014, 06:55 PM
#14039
Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Originally Posted by
Whip
I believe there is a paper trail where banners broker changed their name to stellar point.
Of course there is:
BB_to_STP.jpg
URL: https://www.ic.gc.ca/app/scr/cc/Corp...pNmbr=&bsNmbr=
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01-22-2014, 01:25 AM
#14040
Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
At various conventions e.g. Ireland and Manchester Raj was proudly announced as COO of BB and then subsequently CEO of StellarPoint.
Has anyone got evidence of that because using that evidence alongside name change of BB to StellarPoint, one could go after Raj and Chris.
I won't want Raj to think he got away with it. Hello Dickshit :)
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01-22-2014, 02:00 AM
#14041
Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
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01-22-2014, 02:26 AM
#14042
Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Irish Examiner.com
Readers should be aware;
While this thread contains a lot of "evidence" it is not the sort of evidence likely to satisfy a / the courts' requirements should it be presented in court.
PLEASE, PLEASE save yourself a lot of time, money and heartbreak and consult a legitimate legal representative before undertaking any form of legal action against Banners Broker and / or those behind it.
This is NOT like something you saw on last weeks' episode of Judge Judy or Law and Order.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
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01-22-2014, 02:39 AM
#14043
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01-22-2014, 08:24 AM
#14044
Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Originally Posted by
ribshaw
BB affiliates going after their upline is the most direct strategy.
=========================
In Canada where BB has physical offices that can be served, an affiliate may have two options. One being going after Chris Smith or other upliners directly. Or treating the debt as a business debt and going after Banners Broker the business. Even if they are operating illegally, it is harder for them to argue they don't do business in Canada. And the same would be true for any locale where BB has a physical office. But an affiliate may have an agreement that says all disputes must be mediated in the Isle of Scam.
Exactly right, and affiliates who wait for the answer will likely never see their panels turned back in to cash.
I think a lot of people have the impression that because Chris works out of Canada that they have physical offices here. They don't. There are no physical BB offices in Canada. Chris works out of his condo and the rest of what he calls employees in Canada are not employees but independent contractors to do a certain task working out of their homes or out of Chris's condo. He cannot have employees in Canada as that would mean registering BB in Canada and paying taxes such as payroll tax, income tax, pension plan deductions, etc. He does none of the above.
However, because he is the sole(?) Director of BB and resides in Ontario claims can be filed against him personally in small claims court.
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01-22-2014, 08:33 AM
#14045
Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Originally Posted by
Whip
I believe there is a paper trail where banners broker changed their name to stellar point.
That is true but it is not the same company that Chris Smith owns. Chris Smith owns Banners Broker International (registered in the Isle of Man) and was never registered in Canada. Affiliates agreement is with BBI not BB.
Banners Broker was initially a numbered company registered in Ontario and changed its name to Banners Broker and later to Stellar Point. Different corporations with different owners.
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01-22-2014, 08:20 PM
#14046
Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
https://www.facebook.com/bannersbrok...?stream_ref=10
"The Leaders' Call has been cancelled due to a violation of codes of conduct by one of the participants.
It will be started again soon."
To translate: even the ignorance of the BB member has limits. Running low on lies.
https://www.facebook.com/bannersbrok...?stream_ref=10
.000001 got a payment !!! Everything is better!!!
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01-23-2014, 03:52 AM
#14047
Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Originally Posted by
Fat City, LA
Did you ever meet a business where employees doing nothing but begging Please send to Portugal....Please send to India...Poland,Pakistan ?..which company is based on members begging anything?..a real business is much far from mentality of a 7 years old kid....the spirit condition "mommy give me sandwich I am hungry" is more then welcome in this bizarre world of fraud.And while real business wants and needs only mature and clever people,the BB scam collects just the opposite - immature kids from all around the world...among them are professors,teachers,doctors - still all living in their picture of an ideal,utopian,imaginary planet
Last edited by Mundorf; 01-23-2014 at 04:13 AM.
Instead of loving people and using money, people often love money and use people
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01-23-2014, 01:50 PM
#14048
Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Originally Posted by
Ken Roklin
That is true but it is not the same company that Chris Smith owns. Chris Smith owns Banners Broker International (registered in the Isle of Man) and was never registered in Canada.
I think you may be thinking of the Belize company. Both the UK BB and the Isle of Man are dead edds either set up as nameplates or set up by copy cat scammers.
Affiliates agreement is with BBI not BB.
Affiliates IMO don't have any BB contract with anyone since they are affiliated to a fraud. The fraud however is fronted by people to which they gave money . You don't sue a fraud you sue the people committing it. BBI or SP or BB in a way are legal entities owned by Chris Raj etc. but while they claimed BB was the legal entity they were dealing with Chris and Raj personally took the money while pretending to be BB. I doubt if the money ever got lodged in a BB Bank account. If so then yes BB is liable for a claim but in the meantime even if any ever was in BB Chris or Raj took all the money out of BB and put it in their own pockets.
Banners Broker was initially a numbered company registered in Ontario and changed its name to Banners Broker and later to Stellar Point. Different corporations with different owners.
Eh I don't think so. It ( The Canadian company) is the same company with the same owners and directors (Raj and his ma)but with a name change.
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01-23-2014, 03:29 PM
#14049
Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Proving that Raj (a canadian citizen) is operating/ involved with BB is easy, with his own statements, screenshots, videos, etc.
Showing his canadian company in past named Banners Broker and after **** in the press renamed is also easy.
Chris Smith a canadian citizen also showing himself as operator of BB, regardless of his claimed role in any business entity onshore or offshore.
Your payments / transactions showing it is going to Banners Broker and Excuses from Raj why people cannot get their refunds would also be needed.
It would also be great if the transactions you did were done using a canadian party (Payza, SolidTrustPay) – it would completely take any foreign involvement out of the picture, and Raj would sound stupid trying to say you paid not to them but to some other company on some banana island.
I believe thats all you need.
Canada can care less if Raj also has a company in Isle of Mann , Belize, etc. - it is not their jurisdiction and they do not even have to acknowledge the fact of their existence.
You are canadian, Raj and Chris are Canadian, Raj company (in past named Banners Broker) is Canadian, thats all court can work with.
Last edited by NikSam; 01-23-2014 at 03:40 PM.
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01-23-2014, 04:04 PM
#14050
Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Also, maybe you can dig more into the time just before BB announced that canadian and US residents cannot participate, i believe it was around the company name change.
Maybe court can rule to release some agency records, i bet they been watched for long time and renaming to Stellar Point might be an actual consequence.
Also , i do not know if character evidence can be used in claims court, but you may prepare some info on past associations of Raj with various investment scams
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