I don't believe I said there was parking for 100 vehicles but certainly more than 20. Besides, there is public transportation to that area as well so not every employee has to drive in.
I accept that but I dont believe SP or BB ever had more than a few full time "employees" if they ever had anyone for more than six months at all ( to be clear I mean full time = more than sixc months)! I certainly dont believe they had over 100 as they claimed whether or not those people used public transport.
But ther is a requirement for private companies to keep such records and I do not doubt that under data protection laws they are required to give a copy of such records to the people on which they hold them.
Another issue is about tax - in the UK and Ireland most workers are PAYE i.e. pay as you earn and as such the employeer is responsible for deducting and paying tax. In france most people do their own tax returns and this is similar in the Us and Canada AFAIK. so that changes a lot of issues with respect to SP Canada. They would still however have to keep records of pay and contracts.
In which case an agreement exists by default. "At will" however does not seem to stipulate the terms and conditions of a job.
Are you saying that technically ALL Banners Broker or SP IC were in fact employed by BB or SP under Canadian law. ? If that includes foreign offshore ICs from which BB recieved monies ( and they did) then that opens another can of worms and may change the status from private to public or to a "distributing" entity.
Then you are saying most employees in the US are PAYE. SO that means SP/BB had to take out tax and social insurance and other deductions. They would have to keep these records. THe "employees" would then recieve a copy of the overall sums from the tax man at the end of the tax year. Kens friends can then check whether the sums are the same.
I have stated over and over again that SP has employment records and has issued employees (now ex employees) with their employment record detailing their salary and deductions for both UIC and income tax. Revenue Canada gets a copy of this to verify what the employee (ex) claims on their UIC or tax forms is accurate. There is no way of getting around this. If the "sums" are not the same UIC and Revenue Canada would detect that as soon as an employee files to collect unemployment or when filing their tax returns.
There is that name Karen White again. She was mentioned here a few weeks ago, Joe (I think) put up a post of the usual suspects all supporting BB, each other, promoting some new scheme, she was also on that page, relative unknown. Hardly a surprise that she is claiming to have received payments, she's ' in on it' and up there with the big players.
Anyone happen to know if illicit drug couriers get to collect retirement benefits?
O.....M.....G!!!!!!
The answer is yes, based upon the amount of money they paid into the plan. Having said that, I doubt they would file tax returns to declare their income.
Beacon, to be clear, I am from the US and cannot speak to Canadian law.
1. Based on my experience both online and with a brick and mortar business, the employee or independent contractor is required to report ALL "earned income" to the tax authority. SOME of that income MAY be reported by an employer and some may not.
Example: if I am paid CASH, I am REQUIRED to report it to the IRS. The person or company who paid me is REQUIRED to report paying me. The big question is how this can be tracked. You can surmise from there.
The US tax code is ridiculously complicated and impossible to follow. Gray areas abound.
2. An independent contractor MAY receive a tax form stating earnings paid by an individual or company. That same information MAY be submitted to the IRS. If it is, the IC must report it or risk being audited. Otherwise, the two parties could have an "agreement" and the IRS would never know. Some call this "tax evasion" and others call it "tax avoidance" and "good business".
3. In the case of BB and someone in the US: the IRS would PREFER international companies to send tax forms for earnings but this is NOT required. Instead, I am supposed to report any "earnings" on my end.
4. "At will" means just that. I may receive a handbook of company policies but there is NO formal agreement. I can leave at any time or be fired or laid off at any time.
5. A private company is only required to divulge records in any type of investigation where a court order is involved.
Again, these items only apply in the US. I cannot speak to Canadian law.
.
By the way, you strike me as someone who sometimes suffers from "analysis paralysis" and always wants the last word. My opinion, of course.
Anyone happen to know if illicit drug couriers get to collect retirement benefits?
O.....M.....G!!!!!!
^^^Fogot the emoticon
Originally Posted by Ken Roklin
The answer is yes, based upon the amount of money they paid into the plan. Having said that, I doubt they would file tax returns to declare their income.
I can't believe you actually answered my RIDICULOUS question.
We are dealing with CAREER SCAMMERS here and this whole conversation is stupid. (Big word I know but fitting IMHO)
A BB member with name Karl Satta on BB Facebook page is bombarding the scam with killing comments - here all before are deleted:
Karl Satta - Ian, the webinars are all the same useless information. Why aren't they telling us where the ad platforms are? And if BB really was a BROKER of advertising space then why aren't we all stinking rich?
Karl Satta - Why does a multi national company like BB not have an email address and an office that we can visit? If you have affiliates all over the world why is your office in BELIZE and not New York or London?
Karl Satta - That's a bit tricky as the judge in the Isle of Man has frozen $6 million dollars of BB's assets.
Karl Satta - Why haven't they received anything? I thought Version 3 was supposed to be really good? Its worse than V2.9!
Karl Satta - Your right there Joseph. Makes absolutely NO difference. Banners Broker has been liquidated and is trading illegally.
Karl Satta - Nope. The legacy wallet is just another word for all the earnings you worked hard for in 2.9 being confiscated in V3. And you think this is fair?
Instead of loving people and using money, people often love money and use people
I have stated over and over again that SP has employment records and has issued employees (now ex employees) with their employment record detailing their salary and deductions for both UIC and income tax.
You don't know what records SP has kept. Unless you have seen the SP records which I doubt.
How many "employees" have been issued the employment records?
How many have you actually seen?One? five? Fifty?
Are you aware if there were more than three employees?
Over what duration were these people employed? Any More than six months?
Revenue Canada gets a copy of this to verify what the employee (ex) claims on their UIC or tax forms is accurate. There is no way of getting around this. If the "sums" are not the same UIC and Revenue Canada would detect that as soon as an employee files to collect unemployment or when filing their tax returns.
How many of the "employees" have filed tax returns or since collected benefits?
I do not believe for a second most of the ponzi players Hooker, D'Eall, etc. were paid in this manner.
i accept some office workers may have been paid like this for a few months but I have seen no evidence of that either.
I accept you have a friend who may have worked there. I dont know for how long and i dont know how many others worked ther at that time.
So the "front" piad out maybe a few thousand dollars to one or maybe two or three people over a year and took in maybe up to a thousand each from several thousand victims.
If they paid the tax and social insurance of the maybe three "employees" they may be fulfilling tax return laws ( and we don't even know if they did that). I doubt they fulfilled the requirements of company returns for Hooker etc. even if they submited VALID end of year statements. So even with VALID returns ( and that is a big if) they are STILL operating an illegal business.
That is my point! No amount of "but they employ people" or "they legally employ ed people" is going to convince me they are a legitimate business and deserve any credit at all for employing anyone legitimately or not no more than anyone is going to convince me Union Carbide was a wonderful benefit to India. The difference I hope is the law will eventually catch up with SP/BB.
The issue here is that SP are joined and part of the BB ponzi scam whether or not they start acting like a normal company ( and I have no reason to believe that they are doing such a thing). AS it stands SP have no shareholders anyway other than Raj and his mother as far as I can see and no share capital of any note. So when if they were just set up today and had no dealings with BB I would still not gonear them with a barge pole because Raj is involved. If there was no Raj and there were several trustworthy shareholders and they made annual accounts available then I might consider investing with them. As it is it is a shell company with a few contract workers and a pack of Ponzi players and hangers on running it.
"they employ people" or "they pay tax" or "they file secret annual returns and keep secret records" is going to convince me they are a normal legitimate company. If they have audited accounts then why haven't they produced them? It is a very simple way to show they are a normal business.
You don't know what records SP has kept. Unless you have seen the SP records which I doubt.
How many "employees" have been issued the employment records?
How many have you actually seen?One? five? Fifty?
Are you aware if there were more than three employees?
Over what duration were these people employed? Any More than six months?
How many of the "employees" have filed tax returns or since collected benefits?
I do not believe for a second most of the ponzi players Hooker, D'Eall, etc. were paid in this manner.
i accept some office workers may have been paid like this for a few months but I have seen no evidence of that either.
I accept you have a friend who may have worked there. I dont know for how long and i dont know how many others worked ther at that time.
So the "front" piad out maybe a few thousand dollars to one or maybe two or three people over a year and took in maybe up to a thousand each from several thousand victims.
If they paid the tax and social insurance of the maybe three "employees" they may be fulfilling tax return laws ( and we don't even know if they did that). I doubt they fulfilled the requirements of company returns for Hooker etc. even if they submited VALID end of year statements. So even with VALID returns ( and that is a big if) they are STILL operating an illegal business.
That is my point! No amount of "but they employ people" or "they legally employ ed people" is going to convince me they are a legitimate business and deserve any credit at all for employing anyone legitimately or not no more than anyone is going to convince me Union Carbide was a wonderful benefit to India. The difference I hope is the law will eventually catch up with SP/BB.
The issue here is that SP are joined and part of the BB ponzi scam whether or not they start acting like a normal company ( and I have no reason to believe that they are doing such a thing). AS it stands SP have no shareholders anyway other than Raj and his mother as far as I can see and no share capital of any note. So when if they were just set up today and had no dealings with BB I would still not gonear them with a barge pole because Raj is involved. If there was no Raj and there were several trustworthy shareholders and they made annual accounts available then I might consider investing with them. As it is it is a shell company with a few contract workers and a pack of Ponzi players and hangers on running it.
"they employ people" or "they pay tax" or "they file secret annual returns and keep secret records" is going to convince me they are a normal legitimate company. If they have audited accounts then why haven't they produced them? It is a very simple way to show they are a normal business.
Is there no way one of you can open another thread to carry on this conversation. Just logged on after a couple of days and have had to read pages of your pointless arguments. We cannot prove this either way. Both sides have an opinion, I happen to agree with Beacon, but this is pointless arguing- in my opinion it is detracting from holding the scammers to account.
Is there no way one of you can open another thread to carry on this conversation. Just logged on after a couple of days and have had to read pages of your pointless arguments. We cannot prove this either way. Both sides have an opinion, I happen to agree with Beacon, but this is pointless arguing- in my opinion it is detracting from holding the scammers to account.
No need for another thread as it is pointless. This all came from a simple post of mine to someone asking if Ron was an actual person or not and I simply stated he was an ex-SP employee. As Marsh56 aptly put it to Beacon "...By the way, you strike me as someone who sometimes suffers from "analysis paralysis" and always wants the last word." We all agree SP was run and funded by money from a crime (BBI Ponzi) and Raj was instrumental in promoting the crime. There was no need to over analyze that simple comment that Ron was an ex-SP staffer.
Amazing isn't it...it seems they are getting tons of slaps everywhere especially after last debacle with payments - Facebook and Twitter - and are somewhat tired to be everywhere in the very moment to delete them all....they even do not give excuses why they failed with few cents payments...are this not signs of falling apart??
Instead of loving people and using money, people often love money and use people
Beacon, to be clear, I am from the US and cannot speak to Canadian law.
... Some call this "tax evasion" and others call it "tax avoidance" and "good business".
...
By the way, you strike me as someone who sometimes suffers from "analysis paralysis" and always wants the last word. My opinion, of course.
Thanks for your comments. I am aware of how evasion was done and how complicated the tax code was in respect to the Middle East and EU HQs of companies like Apple for example who succeeded in paying less than a half percent tax on profits and repatriated it into the US without breaking any laws. Look up "double irish dutch sandwich"
As for "last word" you may be right. I dont have any personal problems with Ken and he is a valued contributor to RS. My issue is that he seems to claim BB/SP is a legit business. I accept the two or thrtee people employed ther did nothing wrong and broke no laws. But even if they were totally legally employed I dont accept for a minute that SP formerly BB Canada were operating a legit business. Even if a mafia man legitimately pays into a pension fund all his life he isnt entitled to the benefits of the money he paid in was made by ill gotten gains.
Im not paralysed by any specific analysis. I dont think Im always right although most times I am. I am probably however prone to constant analysis which may constantly change direction. That can be a positive or it can have negative consequences.
NB The "corporate veil" of secrecy is a privacy law that applies to normal and properly conducted businesses. it does notapply to criminal enterprises. FRAUD is a criminal activity. The BB crew have been defrauding people for some years. They dont deserve or have not earned any protection from exposure. But as this is trans national the laws and procedures have to be followed in whatever jurisdiction.
There was no need to over analyze that simple comment that Ron was an ex-SP staffer.
see above : My issue is that KEN seems to claim BB/SP is a legit business. I accept the two or three people employed there - by which i mean secretaries or people answering phones not Stern Ron Hooker etc.- did nothing wrong and broke no laws. But even if they were totally legally employed I dont accept for a minute that SP formerly BB Canada were operating a legit business. IF Ron is legally employed and on the SP payroll ( and I dont know if he is) he is still involved in promoting a scam.
Even if a mafia man legitimately pays into a pension fund all his life he isnt entitled to the benefits of the money he paid in was made by ill gotten gains.
see above : My issue is that KEN seems to claim BB/SP is a legit business. I accept the two or three people employed there - by which i mean secretaries or people answering phones not Stern Ron Hooker etc.- did nothing wrong and broke no laws. But even if they were totally legally employed I dont accept for a minute that SP formerly BB Canada were operating a legit business. IF Ron is legally employed and on the SP payroll ( and I dont know if he is) he is still involved in promoting a scam.
Even if a mafia man legitimately pays into a pension fund all his life he isnt entitled to the benefits of the money he paid in was made by ill gotten gains.
I have posted the following or similar statements "We all agree SP was run and funded by money from a crime (BBI Ponzi) and Raj was instrumental in promoting the crime." many times. Does this sound like it was a legit business? An illegal business and there are a ton of them, follow all the rules and laws to avoid being audited and investigated. A good example was Madoff, filed and paid taxes, had employees, kept records, did everything according to the book yet turned out to be one of the worst Ponzi schemes in history.
How about this to bring the subject completely back around: BB is and always was a scam. Its corporate structure and actual number of employees now or ever is irrelevant.
My primary concern is why it is taking so long for the authorities to intervene. Once again, we can speculate as to why but that does not help the victims. I agree with Beacon that there is no "veil" when fraud is involved. I can't imagine why that would be so hard to prove with Chris and BB.
I live in Massachusetts, USA. The FBI and SEC finally swooped in to close down Telex Free last week. That was a clear pyramid scheme as well. Similar to Zeek, it is reported that over $1B was owed to affiliates before it collapsed. These scams are getting bigger and bigger before they collapse.
How about this to bring the subject completely back around: BB is and always was a scam. Its corporate structure and actual number of employees now or ever is irrelevant.
My primary concern is why it is taking so long for the authorities to intervene. Once again, we can speculate as to why but that does not help the victims. I agree with Beacon that there is no "veil" when fraud is involved. I can't imagine why that would be so hard to prove with Chris and BB.
I live in Massachusetts, USA. The FBI and SEC finally swooped in to close down Telex Free last week. That was a clear pyramid scheme as well. Similar to Zeek, it is reported that over $1B was owed to affiliates before it collapsed. These scams are getting bigger and bigger before they collapse.
Hopefully BB will be next.
Mark
I think a big part of the problem with shutting BBI down is that it is a foreign corporation and and there were very few complaints from Canadians. BBI never had a lot of Canadian affiliates compared to what other countries have/had. There were no Canadian BBI millionaires and very little promotion of any kind here. I didn't see anyone advertising for meetings in hotel rooms to promote BBI like apparently the top promoters did everywhere else. They kept a low profile in Canada.
Had BBI a Canadian address and bank accounts it wouldn't take authorities as long as it has taken to get their information. Authorities began investigating Chris and Raj almost a year ago when a few complaints came in and hopefully we will hear something soon.
Glad to see that it's not just the Telexfree execs that are being charged but their top promoters as well. Raj, take notice!
I think a big part of the problem with shutting BBI down is that it is a foreign corporation and and there were very few complaints from Canadians. BBI never had a lot of Canadian affiliates compared to what other countries have/had. There were no Canadian BBI millionaires and very little promotion of any kind here. I didn't see anyone advertising for meetings in hotel rooms to promote BBI like apparently the top promoters did everywhere else. They kept a low profile in Canada.
Had BBI a Canadian address and bank accounts it wouldn't take authorities as long as it has taken to get their information. Authorities began investigating Chris and Raj almost a year ago when a few complaints came in and hopefully we will hear something soon.
Glad to see that it's not just the Telexfree execs that are being charged but their top promoters as well. Raj, take notice!
Without doubt BB promoted in Canada. 13 months ago, I brought the names Shabaz Khan and Raza Aziz to RS. Both were pushing BB meetings all over Toronto via Eventbrite towards the end of 2012. Aziz was fresh from another scam, nemisis or something similar. We can only assume that either every recruit was a family friend or member too embarrassed to make complaints or complaints were made and are possibly part of an active investigation which appears to be taking place in Canada if the anecdotal evidence of some being contacted by the police can be confirmed. Also, the name Karen White has cropped up a few times. Although I can't be sure of her location, I do think her position is at a senior level which would indicate Toronto. These few names also don't take into account the extended friends and family of Smith, Dixit Lorenzo and the wife, Hooker, Stern etc. How many have they brought in? How many are feeling too compromised to take their loses any further we will never know.
As an aside, if anyone is bored, you got to check out Aziz's online videos, one might be forgiven for thinking the new messiah had arrived
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Originally Posted by Ken Roklin
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