Thread: Elevation; Investment Intelligence Corporation; dba Prophetmax Managed fx; Senen Pousa, Joel Friant, Michael Dillard

Originally Posted by marsh56

Ok, Schmoe, let me say this is simple terms so even YOU can understand.

Hey Marsh even I wasn't dumb enough to join Banners Broker.

Banners Broker was a very obvious Ponzi now that is something even the simplest of minds can understand genius.

Again I find it difficult to believe somebody who can't spot an obvious Ponzi such as BB should be giving financial advice to anybody.

Not only did he join Banners Broker, he also joined the MMG HYIP ponzi forum and posted in support of Banners Broker and discussing tactics until they "stopped paying"

Remind us again why anyone would think he's right THIS time ??

Originally Posted by marsh56

LRM, when YOU drivel, what does have it do with anything?

My latest comments are completely in the context of EVG and are in response to some of Ribshaw's drivel. Why are you and he allowed to spout but I am not?

You are compounding your problems here.
I nearly stated "compounded your interests"

1. You started posting about Elevation in the Banners Broker discussion.
Your continuous off topic "spouting" let to this thread being set up. See post number one for evidence.

2. Having been given space to explain Elevation and to show how Dillard is a financial wizard you failed to support your claims about elevation or Dillard. Instead you posted about insurance and other technical points about investment. Ribshaw dismantled what you claimed about that but it only serves to show your "spouting" about insurance and investment is unsupported insincere and does not paint you in any light as someone to be trusted.

3. Ribshaws "spouting" if any is in response to your claims. Claims which dont support elevation or Dillard but claims none the less. These claims are cloaked in technical commentary. Some readers might accept you know something about this field but Ribshaw is showing that you are noit reliable as a fairminded poster.

Are you guys special?

The above is a plea that you are being treated unfairly and that Ribshaw LRM and others are being given special space or their word is worth more than yours.

You have received no unfair treatment
RIbshaw and LRM have thousands of posts to Realscam on a viriety of subjects. You are a recent arrival and only interested in one subject it seems.
SO based on their record alone YES their word is to be take in favour over yours. Nevertheless they argue based on facts sense and reason and not on off topic waffle!
Also they dont have to defend anything - their "side" or provide rebuttal or refutation. YOU are the one making the claims about elevation Dillard etc. it is for YOU to provide evidence.

Finally LRM is an admin so in a sense he is "special" yes. He could have banned you but didn't

Just because you disagree with something does not mean it is a scam.

True but this is not a case of others making a claim about something they just dont feel good about.
It us about YOU making a claim about Elevation and therefore it is for YOU to support it!
They dont have to prove the negative no more than they have to prove no unicorns.

My points are valid and have to do with one of the products sold from within EVG.

WHAT points? can you enumerate them? I haven't noticed ANY points!

You can claim all you want that EVG is a scam. I could care less. You may not realize it but you are not ALWAYS right.

Again Ill tell you this thread started NOT because anyoine said elevation was a scam but because YOU claimed it was a legit business in another thread and you continued to post off topic claims about elevation there. Because of that I started this thread and had your off topic posts moved here. Nobody else have to prove you wrong no more than prove no unicorns! They could and have provided counter evidence but it is not necessary for then to do so.

Yes, even LRM and Ribshaw can be wrong from time to time.

Indeed they can! And I invite you to prove that they are. You see claiming they are wrong and actually proving it with evidence are two different things.

As long as nonsense is spouted about the so-called "Infinite Banking Concept", I have a right to check in and at least provide another side to the story.

It isnt THEIR claim that is at issue it is YOUR one about Elevation! In your chance to reply you brought up all sorts of nonsense part of which was dubbed "Infinite Banking" .

It seems quite evident you prefer to waffle on about off topic elements of business and finance in an inept attempt to establish a position or credibility than to actually deal with the issue of the discussion.

Originally Posted by marsh56

Ok, Schmoe, let me say this is simple terms so even YOU can understand.

1. About 2.5 years ago, I found out about certain customized insurance plans available here in the US from EVG. My wife and I did business with one of their vendors.

Based on your posts here when you say you found out "from Elevation group" what you actually stated was Dillard gave you a contact list and one of the people on it told you about insurance. This does not look like any customised business planning managing and strategizing in order to solve a variety of financial problems. All it was was a referral from a Rolodex.

We now have a plan with a LEGAL RESERVE life insurance company. By extension, is this 100-year-old company a scam since it is associated with EVG?

No. And if Dillard gave you a contact who said "buy coke" and they went up by 200% in the market that would not mean coca cola are illegal either. But it would not mean Dillard or EVG have some fantastic insights into stock investments.

2. That experience then led me to find a company (outside of EVG) that uses these plans to help folks who are faced with the outrageously high cost of college, again here in the US. I added this service to my existing consulting practice.

So what ? If doubling your money on coca Cola shares led you to investing in Pepsi and also making money that still would not show Dillard is a wizard just because he gave you the contact of a guy who said "buy coke"

In case you were not aware, a person cannot sell life insurance in the US without having a valid license. I thought you experts here would know that since you are all so much smarter and wiser than I am.

Where is your licence?

I have been licensed to sell insurance for over 35 years and have zero complaints on my record. I am also required to carry E&O (Errors and Omissions) coverage. An agent can literally be held accountable for that he SAYS and DOES. Again, I have never had a complaint lodged against me.

How can you suggest we validate that? But in any case even if you have a spotless record the point isnt about YOUR personal business. It is about your claim that EVG is a proper legit business. But I would be happy to see your licence and to see where you can prove your perfect record.

3. Those who start a college funding or other insurance plan with me are called "clients". Get it? Or is that too far over your collective heads here?

You sell insurance and you claim you have never had any complaints. How do we know that is true?

There it is. Simple. A,B,C,1,2,3. Something even the simplest of minds can understand.

It should be simple for you to produce your licence and record then.
After that we can get back to you showing EVG is legit.

Oh, and before I forget,

here's some interesting information about Mr marsh"I've been in the financial services industry for 35 years"56 and Banners Broker was my one foray into the world of HYIP ponzi fraud

Originally Posted by marsh56

Thanks anyway. I will stick with what I learned with EVG: how to bank on myself. It's a lot safer and currently free from the Patriot Act.Mark

I looked for the training manual for Survern Citizenz Life where you may be getting these talking points but sadly all I could find was a link to a major insurance company and the treasury department.
Here is what I would like to suggest, you are making a lot of claims that are long fluff and short on truth. How about you start uploading a few FULL proposals, contract language, and a prospectus from the IULwhere the FEES magically disappear.

It should be painfully obvious to virtually everyone at this point that the contact from Dillard's rolodex who sold you the Infinite Banking Scheme lied to you. Either you have no idea or you do and refuse to tell the truth. One way or another we will make sure people get the correct information.




Has this stuff suddenly changed?
================================================== ======================================
PAGE 1 GOOGLE SEARCH--sorry for the caps, but the spittle on my chin at the moment would be even more visually disturbing.

The USA PATRIOT Act includes provisions intended to prevent the financial services industry, including the insurance sector, from being used for money laundering and terrorist financing by
criminals and terrorists. The Act requires insurance companies to establish anti-money launder -ing (AML) programs that comply with minimum standards developed by the Department of the
Treasury. Regulations issued by the Treasury Department and its Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) establish minimum requirements for insurance company anti-money
laundering programs and require insurers to report suspicious transactions.

“Covered Products.”
The rules are not applicable to all insurance products. Rather, the Trea-sury Department identified categories of “covered products” that in its judgment presented
sufficient AML risk to justify regulation. “Covered products” are defined to include:

• A permanent life insurance policy, other than a group life insurance policy;
• An annuity contract, other than a group annuity contract; or
• Any other insurance product with features of cash value or investment.

http://www.johnhancock.com/resources/pdf/ACLI-NAIFA.pdf


Is it sufficient if my company screens life insurance policies only prior to policy issuance?

That’s up to your firm and your regulators. Conducting screening only before policy issuance is critical but would not likely achieve your desired level of compliance. After the policy issuance, the U.S. Government may designate an existing policyholder or a named beneficiary as a Specially Designated National or Blocked Person (“SDN”), or it may expand sanctions with respect to a particular country, or impose sanctions against a new country. If an existing policyholder or a named beneficiary became an SDN or otherwise subject to U.S. sanctions, the insurer may be required to “block” the policy, report such blocking to OFAC within 10 days of the SDN designation, place any future premiums into a blocked, interest-bearing account at a U.S. financial institution, and seek an OFAC license before making any payments under the policy. Consequently, routine screening of all policies in force against OFAC’s SDN list, as frequently updated, would enable the insurer to comply with the applicable OFAC regulatory requirements. It also is important to screen the policyholder and beneficiary prior to paying a claim. [05-01-03]

Frequently Asked Questions and Answers Page 1

================================================== ======================================

http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/patriot/

Everything this yokel Marsh56 posts is fantasy, wrong on the facts, or an outright lie.

This is probably the single most important caution brought up way back when it was found Dillard was pushing Infinite Banking. Those of you that own it, or are considering purchasing it better get clear on how much money you can safely loan out without causing your policy to collapse. This is a thirty year problem in the making if not done right. With yarns like Mark is spinning the onus is on you to get the truth, his E&O will long have lapsed.

Originally Posted by marsh56

True statement. According to my insurance contracts, I am not required to pay back any loans.

Mark, I am no longer going to call this a misrepresentation, but a lie. While many customers of IB think they are borrowing their own money and paying interest to themselves this is NOT the case. When a policyholder takes a loan they pledge the policy as collateral to the insurance company. Interest paid goes to the insurance company, it does not increase their cash value.

It is virtually identical to them going to their local bank and pledging their policy as collateral to obtain a loan. If they don't pay back the loan the bank will either surrender the policy or collect from the death benefit.

Originally Posted by marsh56

If BOLI is so bad, why is it one of their largest asset holdings? Talk about parlor tricks. Look no further than Citi. This is PERMANENT life insurance.

I never said there is no use for permanent insurance, to the contrary. Banks, institutions, and the wealthy have various uses for insurance that have nothing to do with creating a pretendy self bank.


"Companies don't use the policies as piggy banks to pay for compensation and benefits. Rather, they benefit from keeping the money in the contracts:"

Banks Use Life Insurance to Fund Bonuses - WSJ

Nice try though.

================================================== ======================
Mark and other salespeople would like to have you believe that these are "Safe Money Plans" and no one has lost a penny. Again, not true. This also speaks to the 6% compounding we have so gleefully heard about. In fact getting too much policy and having to bail out early is effectively no different than being too heavy in any investment and having to sell at the wrong time.

Based on the latest data found at soa.org, 26% of whole life policies are terminated in the first three policy years ,45% in the first 10 years , and 58% in the first 20 years. Drop-outs in the first three years lose virtually all the premiums paid with the loss of interest on those premiums sometimes more than what term life would have cost. Those who drop out after 10 years may get back the excess of total premiums over term costs, but without interest, which we define as a loss. One needs to keep a cash value policy at least 20 years to amortize the acquisition costs and produce a decent investment.


http://www.consumerfed.org/pdfs/Misc...rance-2011.pdf

================================================== ======================
This is from 2013 on long term interest rates. Mark seems to not live in the same financial world as the rest of us, or he has found the one company that is the exception to an entire industry.

Life insurers for at least 30 years have used Moody’s (now Mergent’s) Corporate Bond Yield Averages (CBYA) to determine variable policy loan interest rates. The CBYA shows current yields to maturity on newly issued long term bonds averaged across the four investment grades. It is a good indicator of returns life insurers can safely earn , before the expenses of investment departments,
on new investments of their cash flow, which is heavy. In 1982, the CBYA was 16%,which may be hard to believe if you’re not an old person like the writer. By mid - 1987, the rate was down to 9.8%; then 8.6% in 1992; 7.7%, in 1997 ; 7.4% in 2002; 6.0% in 2007; and 5.3% in 2011. The CBYA hit a low to date of 3.92% in November 2012 . Three successive monthly increases found it at
4.27% in February 2013 , but it fell to 4.19% for March and 4.07% for April .

http://www.consumerfed.org/pdfs/Evaluate-June-2013.pdf


================================================== ======================

This is some good reading for consumers in general on insurance. While I virtually never mention other people's products, for $45 this organization will evaluate a life insurance policy for you. With all the tales being told in this thread, and surely by other people in and out of the EVG network it may be a wise investment.

http://www.consumerfed.org/pdfs/Insurance-Booklet.pdf

Concluding, this is an important decision and one where I would want to be dealing with a true professional, not someone who will say anything to close a sale.

Mark, I am no longer going to call this a misrepresentation, but a lie. While many customers of IB think they are borrowing their own money and paying interest to themselves this is NOT the case. When a policyholder takes a loan they pledge the policy as collateral to the insurance company. Interest paid goes to the insurance company, it does not increase their cash value.

It is virtually identical to them going to their local bank and pledging their policy as collateral to obtain a loan. If they don't pay back the loan the bank will either surrender the policy or collect from the death benefit.

To your credit, this is all true. I have NEVER stated otherwise. Ironically you MISREPRESENT my reply to your specific statement.

You say it is a lie that policy loans do not have to be repaid. In the context of MY plans and those of my clients, it is YOU who are misrepresenting the facts. These loans DO NOT have to be paid back to the insurance company. Period.

Your problem is that you do not like to be corrected or--heaven forbid--admit when you are wrong. Too bad. That's how we grow as humans.

Mark and other salespeople would like to have you believe that these are "Safe Money Plans" and no one has lost a penny.

This is a LIE. I have never made such a statement. My clients know EXACTLY how their plans work. If anyone were to lose money with a properly designed safe money plan, it would be due either to ignorance or stupidity. As far as I know, there are no laws against either.

Continue to spout your nonsense and I will continue to correct the record for any fair-minded person who reads this thread. I certainly do not expect anything positive from the rest of the haters who post here.

Mark

More drivel from LRM showing that I have been a member on a forum since 2005. Wow, what a revelation from a super sleuth. I NEVER stated that BB was my ONE foray into Ponzi land. Another misrepresentation.

The TRUTH (I know you guys have a hard time with that word when someone disagrees with you) is that BB was my LAST foray.

It really cracks me up how foolish you guys look calling EVG a Ponzi. Or did the definition change?

Honestly, I could care less how you all extrapolate that someone who participated in online "games" or Ponzi's is somehow not qualified to help people save and accumulate money.

My "temporary stupidity" did not affect any of my past, present or future clients. Never once was a client involved. Never once did I recruit anyone into any of these schemes. It is easy to be judgmental when the attack is on someone else. How about you all looking into the mirror first before passing judgment?

Or is that too tall a task? Or have none of you ever made any financial mistakes? Oh, I forgot. You are all totally honest citizens and are all self-made millionaires or financially independent. Did I get that right?

If none of you believes in redemption or learning from mistakes, that is on YOU.

My only regret is that I did not find out about safe money options years ago. My clients and I could be even further ahead but there's still plenty of opportunity. And, yes, it was a vendor on EVG's rolodex that started me on that journey. Don't really care how you all feel about that. It does not change the result.

Mark

Originally Posted by Joe_Shmoe

Hey Marsh even I wasn't dumb enough to join Banners Broker.

Banners Broker was a very obvious Ponzi now that is something even the simplest of minds can understand genius.

Again I find it difficult to believe somebody who can't spot an obvious Ponzi such as BB should be giving financial advice to anybody.

I really do get a boot out of replying to people with such telling screen names.

Of course, you are way smarter than I am. In the beginning, BB was not so obvious a Ponzi to some. Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20. At least I had the sense to get back my seed money and NEVER sponsored anyone. But, of course, that does not matter to the Ponzi Police here.

I am sure you have never made any financial mistakes and are way more qualified to speak on money matters.

I now bow to you as I have the other money gods here. This is surely THE place to get the best financial advice available.

Mark

One needs to keep a cash value policy at least 20 years to amortize the acquisition costs and produce a decent investment.

And what TYPE of cash value policy, Ribshaw? Does this apply to "over funded, dividend paying whole life policies"?

Let me help you with this one: NO!

Again, you are out of your league on this but will never admit it. Quote out of context all you like. The majority of our whole life plans BREAK EVEN in about FIVE years and not 20.

It is really telling just how close-minded some people can be when something different is presented. Having trouble thinking outside the box these days?

Let's just stick with the mainstream, the status quo. Yep, how's that working out for the average Joe?

Mark

Originally Posted by marsh56

And what TYPE of cash value policy, Ribshaw? Does this apply to "over funded, dividend paying whole life policies"?

Let me help you with this one: NO!

Again, you are out of your league on this but will never admit it. Quote out of context all you like. The majority of our whole life plans BREAK EVEN in about FIVE years and not 20.

It is really telling just how close-minded some people can be when something different is presented. Having trouble thinking outside the box these days?

Let's just stick with the mainstream, the status quo. Yep, how's that working out for the average Joe?

Mark

Time to put up or shut up Mark, put up the documents I requested.

What is the surrender charge on your five year break even policy? Let me guess it is 0 and the insurance company gives a sack of gold coins and a twinkie on the way out. What is the opportunity cost due to the policy holder accepting substandard returns on their policy in the first 20 years?

You keep acting as if you are privy to some special policy Mark, all industry analysis applies no matter how much you overfund or pretend it is "custom". Keep in mind I have already presented two separate IB policies. You have shown 0, just your lies and back peddling.

I am over my head in something and it isn't your out of the box thinking.

Board Message

Zeekrewards Zeekrewards.com.jpg

Hmmmmm? Where have I seen something like this before?

And then you joined Banners Broker (a very Obvious Ponzi)


ASD
Zeek
Banners Broker...

Anymore Ponzis you care to tell us about?



“It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out.” ― Carl Sagan

There are so many strawmen around here now a brush fire might break out. And it still hasn't been proven dillard's not a scammer.
So is "c-l-i-e-n-t-s" the new way to spell 'marks'?

In response to the suggestion that he was claiming ther were safe money plans
"Mark and other salespeople would like to have you believe that these are "Safe Money Plans" and no one has lost a penny."

Originally Posted by marsh56

This is a LIE. I have never made such a statement. My clients know EXACTLY how their plans work. If anyone were to lose money with a properly designed safe money plan, it would be due either to ignorance or stupidity. As far as I know, there are no laws against either.

It appears the only logical alternative is marsh56 is claiming not that there are safe money plans but that the only ones that are safe money are HIS ones. If anyone loses money on HIS plans it is because of their mistakes not not because of his plan.

Originally Posted by marsh56

My only regret is that I did not find out about safe money options years ago. My clients and I could be even further ahead but there's still plenty of opportunity.

SO he IS claiming he is involved in safe money plans!

And, yes, it was a vendor on EVG's rolodex that started me on that journey. Don't really care how you all feel about that. It does not change the result.

the point is not whether all you windbagging about safe money and insurance plans work or dont work. I think you have failed to show how they are a reasonable form of investment or loan but this IS NOT THE ISSUE!

the issue is you raised this rolodex contact as evidence that Elevation is a legit and useful business to do with financial management and services Even if true all ti shows is a contact of Dillards gave you some advice. It IS NOT evidence of Dillard or elevation being anything other than a referral to another person. As yet you have produced NO EVIDENCE of Dillard or elevation being a sound financial investment prospect!
All your windbagging and playing the victim and ad hominem are not addressing the issue!

How is elevation a sound finance prospect? What does Dillard do with Elevation or any other business that makes worth investing in?

marsh56 = "I have been in the financial services industry for 35 years"

marsh56 =

"I have been a member of the MMG HYIP ponzi forum for 9 years"

marsh56 = "I was a member of the Banners Broker HYIP ponzi fraud for 2 years"

incongruous

[in-kong-groo-uh s]

• Synonyms
• Examples
• Word Origin

adjective

1. out of keeping or place; inappropriate; unbecoming: an incongruous effect; incongruous behavior.

2. not harmonious in character; inconsonant; lacking harmony of parts: an incongruous mixture of architectural styles.

3. inconsistent: actions that were incongruous with their professed principles.

Knowing he was a long time member of the MMG HYIP ponzi forum does go some way to explaining his attacking posting style and frequent usage of strawman arguments

The Salty Droid – Mike Dillard & Senen Pousa Win 2012 Scam of the Year

That Dillard would use a con artist like Jonathan Budd for a testimonial says it all.
Budd is the like the boogyman to the ponzi crowd, even the pimps cant make $ with him.

Last I heard he was in hiding after the Rippofflin. (Ripplin) debacle/scam.

Originally Posted by marsh56

Of course, you are way smarter than I am. In the beginning, BB was not so obvious a Ponzi to some. ... But, of course, that does not matter to the Ponzi Police here.

1. Whether people are smarter than you is not an issue.
2. The people here whom you call "police" have pointed out that given your background posting to aHYIP internet site you should know the fingerprints of a ponzi or a scam. to say BB was not obvious is just not acceptable.

I am sure you have never made any financial mistakes and are way more qualified to speak on money matters.

3. Other people's mistakes or not and other people's qualifications whether or not they have them are not at issue. You claims are for example whether you are licenced to do the business you claim to be professionally licenced under. But mainly are YOPUR CLAIMS about Dillard and Elevation being experienced and ligit businnesses. You have not produced any evidence of that!

I now bow to you as I have the other money gods here. This is surely THE place to get the best financial advice available.

It isnt about OUR advice (and by the way this is not an advice site it is a site to discuss scams.) it is about YOUR claims!

I liked this guy better in Get Him to the Greek - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. With only 60 views in two weeks it looks like the new "Wealth Factory" is off to a slow start. Sad, I was so enjoying this thread.



A few thoughts before moving back to Ponzi land. You missed your window to enroll in the Amazing Selling Machine, don't even bother asking.

One FINAL reminder… if you don’t own your own business, starting one as soon as possible will allow you to get the most out of your new EVG / Wealth Factory lessons. It’ll also enable you to invest more productively and give you the best shot at achieving economic independence as fast as possible...

So if you want the easy button way to start a business, we highly recommend you check out the Amazing Selling Machine. We give it our highest endorsement. But you have to act fast. They stop enrolling new students tonight at midnight.

================================================== ===============

Garrett promises to show you how to accomplish in 2-3 years what often takes up to 30 years with a traditional financial plan.

Sounds too good to be true?- YES IT SOUNDS LIKE TOTAL BS.


================================================== ===============
Email Tease...

Are You Being Bullied Into These Investing Mistakes?

Individual investors have been bullied for years. Especially small business owners and entrepreneurs. We’ve been told to take money out of our business and hand it to someone else…

And let them “invest" it for the “long haul.” Here’s what they really want... They don’t want you to touch your money for a long time … so they can keep skimming off a percentage every year.

Because the more cash you put in, the bigger their cut. The biggest scandal? They take their percentage whether you win or not.

Meanwhile, another company is using your money to make themselves rich … while you patiently wait.

It’s a game totally rigged in their favor. Zoom back to 2008 with me… Mutual funds tanked. Companies dissolved. Retirements vanished. Dreams destroyed.

And while “faithful investors” watched nearly 17 years of savings get ripped out of their portfolios...

Lazy fund managers got paid in full... And then still had the gall to take “their cut” out of our dwindling life savings -- as if they deserved it. Talk about entitlement!


================================================== ===============

As Beacon indicated this is not an investment advice thread, but a thread on scams. The question I am left with is if you are going to pay to join Wealth Factory aka EVG are they going to paint the worst case scenario and steer you into their products? Or are they going to lay out all the best case scenarios and truly educate you? In reading several threads on Infinite Banking a few others have brought up this very concern.

VTI.JPG

If you had invested all your money in 2008 and bailed out a few months later you would have lost. The same as if you loaded up on real estate, silver, or a life policy and had to sell at the bottom of any panic. What happened if you planned well and stayed away from gurus grubby talons?

I am not a big fan of excessive fees or active money managers managers, but is there an alternative that someone you are paying a fee to advise you should compare against? Or is that person giving you a worst case scenario, like the 401K with 3% fees in an effort to steer you to what they are selling?

VTI holds 3772 companies and has an expense ratio .05% or $5 per year on $10,000 invested. Similar alternatives exist with bonds, real estate, and hard assets. That is what I would want to see alternatives compared against if it were my money. The same with any financing options, what is the best interest rate available?

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/fun...FundIntExt=INT

================================================== ===============

Using the balance sheet of LLIC when we scratch the surface just a little they hold a portfolio of securities/investments. The notion that one is somehow escaping the banking system or Wall Street falls pretty quickly. Policy performance will in part depend on the performance of the portfolio, expenses, and claims experience. ALL insurance companies have the same dynamic going on.


THE LAFAYETTE LIFE INSURANCE COMPANY
GAAP Balance Sheet
Consolidated and Condensed Financial Statements
Amounts in thousands
12/31/2013
Assets
Debt securities
$2,925,269
Equity securities
76,727
Other invested assets
826,968
Total invested assets
3,828,964
Other assets
380,516
Total assets
$ 4,209,480

https://www.llic.com/pdf/ourcompany/LL-1787.pdf

Certainly I am not against insurance, and LLIC is solid as are many carriers. However, even if a company is 100 years old, it is still only one company. The life policy itself is a filter that will extract from returns of a pure portfolio in exchange for the insurance protection. The is no other way for the company to stay in business. To steer people from a balanced portfolio to an insurance policy that is in effect part of a balanced portfolio of the insurance company seems little more than smoke and mirrors to moi.

Is Gunderson going to continue the practice of charging fees only to sell your name to vendors? Will members be getting best case advice, or worst case buy my elixir? Time will tell.

A little more on the scary 401K just in time for Halloween. Two quick observations:

1. Americans don't save enough for retirement as indicated by low 401K balances.

2. With those low balances the risk is not taxes, but not having enough to live on. Anyone seriously think most people's biggest fear should involve being in the top 1% of taxpayers?

OH THE HORROR IF THAT HAPPENS!!!

On the surface this whole scary video = pretty silly. What of the math?




Effective tax rates (the rate people actually pay) have remained little changed for the past 35 years.

High Income Households Paid an Effective Tax Rate 16 times Higher than Low Income Households in 2010 | Tax Foundation

Average Effective Tax Rate.JPG

If I was really pressed my guess is rates will head up a little. For this exercise I will assume rates remain the same and use a rate for the 81-99th percentile of taxpayers- 25%. In other words other than the top 1%, a full 80% of taxpayers currently pay an effective rate much lower than this, 18% for the middle and about 5% for the lowest. Just for reference when gurus start throwing around the 30s and 40s.

================================================== =================

QUESTION: Do you want to pay TAX on the SEED or on the HARVEST?

ANSWER: It makes almost no difference.

Let's assume you put $10,000 pre tax in a 401K or $7500 after-tax in a gurus super account. $2500 paid once for taxes. Compound both at 6% for 30 years.

PreTax.JPG

Aftertax.JPG



In the after tax guru account you end up with $43,076.18

In the pre tax account you end up with $57,434.91 BUT YOU HAVE TO PAY 25% IN TAXES SO YOU REALLY ARE LEFT WITH $43,076.18

Certainly not enough to make a U-tube video over now is it? (Yes the number is the same, perhaps Garrett will give you 20 minutes of your life back)

As for the government "changing the rules", both Wall Street and The Insurance Industry have powerful lobbies and politicians are whores. Not to say there won't, haven't been, or can't be changes. Rather than worrying about what might happen, I prefer to worry about actually having enough.

Just in case someone thinks wiz Gunderson stumbled on something revolutionary. There is some sketchy math going on with Douglas Andrew's Missed Fortune that this blogger makes short work of:

Missed Fortune - A Critique | The White Coat Investor- Investing And Personal Finance Information For Physicians, Dentists, Residents, Students, And Other Highly-Educated Busy Professionals

================================================== =================

One more thing on the TAX issue as we already know where Gunderson is going with your money if not a 401K or similar:

Assuming you end up with $1,000,000 in a 401K and pay a tax rate of 25% you are left with $750,000.

Assuming you end up with $1,000,000 in a life insurance policy and borrow it tax free at 5% you pay the insurance company $50,000 a year in interest, every year until you die. After five years you would be paying more in interest than you paid in taxes. A clever clogs may tell you that you can use the policy dividend to pay the interest, but that dividend is your money. It is not as if a leprechaun shows up with his pot-o-gold and writes the dividend checks.

Seed or Harvest is a sales pitch, not a strategy.


*I kept things very simple, omitted a few items, and certainly everyone needs to consult their own tax professionals. Put some real pen to paper before you start building a life strategy around the sort of shell games 401K-haters be playin.

================================================== =================

I leave these here as Dave Ramsey is mentioned in the video. I don't agree with Dave on the 12% a year returns based on any information I have seen. It seems way high on what most investors portfolios actually return. Also, I am not crazy about the use of load funds or trying to pick winners based on past performance.

Save like Dave Ramsey... Just Don't Invest Like Him - 1

He can explain himself in the second link...

Yes, You Can Make 12% With Your Mutual Funds - daveramsey.com

We used to listen to Ramsey on a project I worked on years ago. One comment I made to a coworker was as even though I don't agree with everything Dave says it would be hard to follow his plan and end up broke.

I can't say the same things about some of what is coming from the Wealth Factory's new guy.

Originally Posted by ribshaw

Anyone seriously think most people's biggest fear should involve being in the top 1% of taxpayers?

It should be that they get stuck with a ponzi pimp as a financial adviser.

Originally Posted by Whip

It should be that they get stuck with a ponzi pimp as a financial adviser.

LOL, add in a bit of this and it is time to start stacking the cat food for your retirement enjoyment:

Have a stupid theory why you shouldn't have to pay taxes? 861? Non-Filer? Sovereign Citizen? Believe that the federal courts are actually admiralty courts or that the only real citizens of the USA live in Puerto Rico, Guam, and the District of Columbia, then this forum is for you. Also considers Pure Trusts in all of its scam forms, including Constitutional Trusts, Patriot Trusts, Unincorporated Business Organizations, COLATOS, as well as the Corporation Sole scam, and "Make Yourself into a Church" in all variants http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewforum.php?f=32


================================================== ====

Just to make myself useful every now and again here is a REAL link to search for unclaimed assets such as old bank accounts or insurance polices.


Unclaimed Money from the Government | USA.gov

Government Imposter Scams | Consumer Information

Secret money the government is holding if you fill out the right forms in ALL CAPS and sign with your left thumbprint can only be accessed in the founders area.

There was a good article in this month's Money magazine called "False Promises, Dashed Dreams." I tried to find the link online, but no luck.

Money

One thing that was included that gets Gunderson all giddy is §72(t) and accessing your retirement money before 59 1/2. Here is the big secret:

Retirement Plans FAQs regarding Substantially Equal Periodic Payments

A comment to the effect of bad investment advice often comes with a free meal. Some of the profiles in the article surrounded people who had their money rolled over, and then rolled again. Like being mugged by a guy in a suit.

Senior Investor Alert: Free Meal Seminars - NASAA

================================================== =========
A common theme about savings that jumped out enough to mention while burying down on a few threads was "I have never met a someone who became a millionaire by investing in mutual funds." This always seems to come from someone with something to sell. I will flip that around and say I have never met someone who became a millionaire getting questionable advice on U-Tube.

Per usual dishing the secrets for free...

Secrets of the 401(k) Millionaires - MarketWatch

https://www.fidelity.com/viewpoints/...re-with-a-401k

I don't know any of the people that post over here, and I'm certain there are a few full of baloney, but I bet you will find enough real deal investors and business people that it will be years before you consider wasting money on Wealth Factory.

Bogleheads Investing Advice and Info

================================================== ===========

Last on the scare tactics by the purveyors of crappy alternatives.

This is one that I suspect will never see the light of day. Obama
"Impossible to Implement" was my takeaway from the article. The second would be ending the Stretch IRA for non-spouse beneficiaries. I consider a shorter STRETCH a little more likely, my money is going to a not-for-profit set up for retired roller derby girls so little does it concern me. Finally, there are any number of EMAIL rumors circulating about confiscation of all things 401K. You won't need your 401K when you are in a FEMA camp so don't lose any sleep.

Also the budget proposal is targeted at accounts larger than $3M...

If you have $3,000,000+++ in your 401K good for you, I doubt you would be doing anything other than laughing at a guru like Gunderson on your way to speak with the adults.

Too many holes in these arguments, too little time and NO time to waste here.

Glad you guys are having a good time. Again, you are all always right so there's no need for any further debate. Your minds are already made up.

Just a couple of final comments @ ribshaw since he does the most jaw jacking here.

1. I would never post my personal policy here since God only knows where it would end up, edited etc. My clients get to see my policies and my other "alternative" investments. You do not. Nothing to hide. I sleep well at night.

2. To your point about surrender charges: most every policy has them. These plans are designed as LONG term plans, usually 10-15 years or more. There is no reason to surrender them and all of this is explained up front to the client. In our practice, we always use a proper needs analysis and do at least annual reviews or as necessary if a client's situation changes.

There are bad apples in every single industry on the planet. You will find just as many licensed financial planners who rip off people as licensed insurance agents. In all cases, it is WRONG and the wrongdoers should be held accountable. Painting the sales people with a broad brush does not disprove the value of the concepts and their proper implementation and use.

Anyone can take an otherwise good CONCEPT and screw it up. That is usually due to fear and greed, or even plain stupidity on the part of either or both parties involved in the transaction.

Regardless of what any of you think of me, I help clients every day and feel really good about what I do. Not only do I sell so-called "safe money" plans but I also OWN them. And my wife and I are doing very well, thank you. WE have not been ripped off by our advisors and I do not rip off clients. Believe it or not. I could care less what you all think or speculate.

One final note: I do not see any reference here to Dillard's LFP program. It is a mentoring program that costs $37 per month and teaches you from beginning to end how to come up with a product, market it and monetize it, all online. All weekly lessons are recorded and you can cancel at any time.

I am in the process of using the information to expand my existing college planning services (non-insurance) nationwide. There is more in one lesson than I have ever received from any other online marketing vendor.

Of course, I am sure you guys will find ways to poke holes in it and call it yet another scam. Have fun.

Gotta go. Preparing for my next workshop. No free meal. We only provide water. Over 50 families have already registered. Too many people to help, so little time.

Mark