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Elevation; Investment Intelligence Corporation; dba Prophetmax Managed fx; Senen Pousa, Joel Friant, Michael Dillard
Just as a point of clarification, I see a reference here to Mike Dillard's Elevation Group in the context of scammer Alan Sills.
As a member of the group, I can say it is NOT a scam program. I have benefited personally from more than one of Mike's programs. One benefit has been HUGE for my family.
With EVG, the program stands on its own. In other words, you do NOT have to recruit to make money.
There still are occasional "gems" out there (maybe 1% or less) and EVG is one of them, IMHO of course.
Mark
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Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marsh56
Just as a point of clarification, I see a reference here to Mike Dillard's Elevation Group in the context of scammer Alan Sills.
As a member of the group, I can say it is NOT a scam program. I have benefited personally from more than one of Mike's programs. One benefit has been HUGE for my family.
With EVG, the program stands on its own. In other words, you do NOT have to recruit to make money.
There still are occasional "gems" out there (maybe 1% or less) and EVG is one of them, IMHO of course.
Mark
Think Ribshaw may have a point- judging by a quick google. But you never know.
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Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marsh56
Just as a point of clarification, I see a reference here to Mike Dillard's Elevation Group in the context of scammer Alan Sills.
As a member of the group, I can say it is NOT a scam program. I have benefited personally from more than one of Mike's programs. One benefit has been HUGE for my family.
With EVG, the program stands on its own. In other words, you do NOT have to recruit to make money.
There still are occasional "gems" out there (maybe 1% or less) and EVG is one of them, IMHO of course.
Mark
Apparently the US Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) Don't agree with your assessment of either Mike Dillard or the Elevation Group
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Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
LRM, are you aware of ALL of the other programs provided by EVG? Or are you judging the program on just ONE facet? First, Dillard is no longer involved with Forex due to this misjudgment.
Second, he was totally honest up front with participants and did what he could to make the situation whole. I am NOT defending Dillard but this was a classic case of guilt by association. The OTHER party was the scammer and Dillard was duped. No excuse, just fact.
EVG has a VERY high profile with offices in Austin, TX USA. If he were a proven scammer, the authorities would have swooped in long ago.
On the one hand, I appreciate all this board has done here to expose BB for the scam it is. However, let's not paint all opps with the same broad brush. Context is everything.
What I CAN say is that all of the other programs inside EVG are legitimate. How do I know? Because I have contacted each source and they are all brick and mortar businesses that have been around and have positive track records.
In fact, one entity offers investing in multi-unit properties. In the US, this can only be offered to ACCREDITED investors as determined by the SEC. Surely if EVG were a scam, again the authorities would be all over it since the company is very transparent.
Let's keep cool heads and not jump to conclusions without having ALL the facts.
Mark
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Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Quote:
In fact, one entity offers investing in multi-unit properties. In the US, this can only be offered to ACCREDITED investors as determined by the SEC. Surely if EVG were a scam, again the authorities would be all over it since the company is very transparent.
Let's keep cool heads and not jump to conclusions without having ALL the facts.
Mark
Just like Mrs VIP and, oh, a few dozen others I could name...crooks get off all the time just because the authorities only have so many resources to stop them.
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Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Quote:
Originally Posted by marsh56
Let's keep cool heads and not jump to conclusions without having ALL the facts.
Right so:
* the Wealth Masters International scam never happened, it wasn't declared an an illegal pyramid in Norway
* The Carbon Copy Pro scam never happened
* Mike Dillard was never involved with either of them
Personally, I sorta like the Salty Droid analysis of what REALLY went on
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Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marsh56
LRM, are you aware of ALL of the other programs provided by EVG?
It is not logically necessary to disprove every claim made by a rule. if one can provide a single counter example to one single implication of it the rule is disproved.
If you claim all swans are white and I show you a black swan it isnt any use saying "but what about all the other white ones"
Quote:
Or are you judging the program on just ONE facet?
see above if someone is involved with something crooked saying there are other non crooked things they were involved with isnt a counter argument.
Quote:
First, Dillard is no longer involved with Forex due to this misjudgment.
again so what? Bernie Madoff is also no longer involved in a ponzi. So what does that prove about the one he was involved in? Does it mean it isnt a ponzi or that Madoff is innocent?
Quote:
Second, he was totally honest up front with participants and did what he could to make the situation whole.
Again so what? I I steal a million dollars from you and bet in on a horse with the hope the horse comes in and I can pay you double it makes no difference to the fact that I am a thief after the horse falls at the first hurdle.
Quote:
I am NOT defending Dillard but this was a classic case of guilt by association.
actually you ARE. you already admitted your bias when you said you were involved with him in his scheme.
Quote:
The OTHER party was the scammer and Dillard was duped. No excuse, just fact.
First I find that difficult to believe .Can you support it. second ignorance of the law does not excuse responsibility or remove guilt.
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EVG has a VERY high profile with offices in Austin, TX USA. If he were a proven scammer, the authorities would have swooped in long ago.
Madoff had a ponzi going for decades. Longevity is no proof of legitimacy.
Quote:
On the one hand, I appreciate all this board has done here to expose BB for the scam it is. However, let's not paint all opps with the same broad brush. Context is everything.
Given the quoted legal context and that you supplied no counter evidence yes context is everything and this is a scam too.
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What I CAN say is that all of the other programs inside EVG are legitimate.
/
No surprises there but can you prove it? Try starting another thread on it if you wish - unless there is one already?
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How do I know? Because I have contacted each source and they are all brick and mortar businesses that have been around and have positive track records.
Wonderful. Care to post evidence of all these sources here. If they are real businesses then we should have no problem confirming that.
Quote:
In fact, one entity offers investing in multi-unit properties. In the US, this can only be offered to ACCREDITED investors as determined by the SEC. Surely if EVG were a scam, again the authorities would be all over it since the company is very transparent.
given it is so transparent maybe you can post this accreditation to this forum . Or is not that transparent after all?
Quote:
Let's keep cool heads and not jump to conclusions without having ALL the facts.
facts notably absent from your unsupported claims.
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Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Quote:
Originally Posted by
littleroundman
Right so:
* the Wealth Masters International scam never happened, it wasn't declared an an illegal pyramid in Norway
* The Carbon Copy Pro scam never happened
* Mike Dillard was never involved with either of them
Personally, I sorta like the
Salty Droid analysis of what REALLY went on
LRM, I can see that you tend to border on cynical from time to time. This may prevent you from being fair-minded and looking at BOTH sides of "stories".
Once again, I see no new FACTS in this Salty Droid story. If you look hard enough, you can find dirt on most anyone. That does not make them guilty of any crimes.
A few years ago, I was involved in a Forex program where a lot of participants lost money. Each of us signed a Power of Attorney, allowing a "professional" trader (who was vetted) to trade our accounts. He had a proven track record of steady returns in the 4-8% per month range (not uncommon for those who successfully trade for a living).
Long story short, the trader had a nervous breakdown and blew up the entire account. He was going through a nasty divorce and had never been responsible for trading so many accounts at the same time. Some of the participants were trading friends of mine. Many reported the program to the authorities. In the end, our group obtained a legal opinion and it was determined that the trader had done nothing wrong. We had all signed POA's and had agreed to the terms.
Was the trader guilty of anything? That depends on your definition of "guilty". Was I guilty of promoting the program to friends and associates? What I can say is that each one accepted the risk and did not blame ME for their losses. It's called "personal accountability and responsibility".
I was vilified by some outsiders on a trading forum and one idiot claimed that I was a convicted felon. If you search hard enough, you will find someone with my name who is indeed a convicted felon. Did that make the idiot right? Of course not.
Here is what I DO know: I have participated in more than one program inside of EVG (NOT the trading one) and my family has benefited substantially from them. The contracts I have are with legal and regulated insurance companies here in the US, companies that have been in business for over 100 years.
I cannot speak to Dillard's past because I had no direct experience. One thing I have learned in life is that there are AT LEAST two sides to every story.
With BB, there are plenty of FACTS that prove it is a scam. If you or anyone else can PROVE EVG is a scam, I will pay attention. Otherwise it is mostly opinions stated as fact. That is a dangerous course, in my opinion.
Mark
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Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Beacon, I figured you would chime in. You will see my personal story in the LRM reply post.
Apparently you have conveniently left out INTENT. Can YOU prove that Dillard INTENDED to deceive participants in the trading scheme? Has anyone else PROVEN intent?
Whatever happened to REDEMPTION? Or is it the "leopard and the spots" with you and LRM?
Dillard is NOT a convicted felon like Madoff and he is NOT in jail. In fact, he roams freely in Austin, TX. When and if the authorities swoop in and arrest him, then we can talk.
Here is another real life example. My wife has a qualified retirement plan where she works here in the US. She is 61 and is fully vested in the plan. However, according to the rules of the plan as determined by the employer, my wife can only move the funds INSIDE of the plan. In other words, her company is FORCING her to take a risk in the stock market. In other words, there are no SAFE options being offered.
Based on current circumstances, she cannot have full control over the funds until she LEAVES the company. What happens if there is another big market loss before she retires? Who would be responsible for the loss?
I obtained a legal opinion and was told that, according to SEC regulations, NO COMPANY can force an individual to take risk in the market. Yet this is common practice. The only option we have is to sue the company to force them to change the plan. We do not have the resources to do this.
So, I ask: is my wife being scammed? She sure is. Is her company breaking the law? Apparently. By extension, is she breaking the law by participating in an alleged illegal plan? If so, is this true of ALL employees who are participating?
Is it her company's intent to defraud her? Probably not, but that does not make things right.
In the context of BB, it is beyond doubt that it is a scam. Does that mean that everyone who participated is a fraudster? Of course not. In fact, so-called "net losers" are referred to as "victims" of the fraud when a receiver is appointed.
In the context of EVG, one failed program does not prove that the entire program is fraudulent. The Forex offering caused financial damage but there is no proof (to my knowledge) that Dillard knowingly directly participated in the fraudulent aspects. Back in 2008, AIG failed. Or did it? The FACT is that its BANKING division failed and not its INSURANCE division. Did AIG fail investors or was it just a PART of the company?
In any case, I can see that are some here who paint with a broad brush and that is not constructive in my opinion. Thanks to the rest who are fair minded and draw their own conclusion based on the information presented.
Mark
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Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marsh56
LRM, I can see that you tend to border on cynical from time to time.
How many of the due diligence criteria you're using for EVG matches that you used for Banners Broker ??
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Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Quote:
Originally Posted by
littleroundman
How many of the due diligence criteria you're using for EVG matches that you used for Banners Broker ??
As long as they are in it, it's not a scam until it stops paying of course.
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Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Quote:
Originally Posted by marsh56
Apparently you have conveniently left out INTENT. Can YOU prove that Dillard INTENDED to deceive participants in the trading scheme? Has anyone else PROVEN intent?
Mate, with that one paragraph you have demonstrated you are either completely clueless, or you are still stuck in the mindset which cost you so dearly with Banners Broker or you watch too many TV cop shows.
http://imageshack.com/a/img674/1488/BXLT2l.jpg
U.S. COMMODITY FUTURES TRADING COMMISSION’S AND U.S. SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION’S JOINT STATUS UPDATE TO THE VICTIMS OF THE PROPHETMAX FRAUD
Please, please don't come here with B/S about "intent" or the usual suspect HYIP ponzi players' crap excuses.
He did it.
You are kidding yourself if you believe Dillard was "unintentionally" involved in what the CFTC / SEC described in court documents as a multi million dollar "massive fraud"
The man was busted, faced civil proceedings, found liable for violations of Federal Law and coughed up his share of a $750,000 disgorgement.
If you want to believe it was all an accident, fine, it's your money and your right to do so.
But, P-U-H-L-E-A-S-E don't come here to a forum full of old hands at the scammin' game and expect to pull the wool over their eyes with excuses straight out of the "Get-Rich-quickers Handbook"
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Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
I have asked for all from http://www.realscam.com/f8/banners-b...html#post76400 on and relating to it be move to another thread as it is not about BB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marsh56
Beacon, I figured you would chime in.
So we can add clairvoyance to you abilities now can we?
Quote:
You will see my personal story in the LRM reply post.
Please click "reply with quote" when replying and delete out what you want because if you dont I wont know if you reply nor to what you are replying
As for LRM could you right click on the number on the top right of that message and copy the location and paste it ionto your reply so we can see to what you are referring?
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Apparently you have conveniently left out INTENT.
Apparently mens rea only exists as a necessity in Criminal Law. also as I pointed out ignorance of the law or ignorance of consequences of actions does not excuse those actions.
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Can YOU prove that Dillard INTENDED to deceive participants in the trading scheme? Has anyone else PROVEN intent?
I would think unlicenced trading or the illegality of a scheme or similar would make such necessity to prove it moot.
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Whatever happened to REDEMPTION? Or is it the "leopard and the spots" with you and LRM?
Redemption is a term from theology not a legal phrase. In a court you get the LAW not necessarily Justice. Leave the philosophical discussion outside the court.
But Ill answer that question. If Myra Hindley the Moors Murdered says she is sorry for what she did and wants to redeem herself Im prepared to accept she is being honest. Maybe she could tour the land telling people how evil hers actions were 9 oir some other usefull action of redemption) and then every night go back to her cell and be locked up there until she dies. Similarly a scammer could do similar .
redemption doers NOT mean allowing her access to weapons and children nor does it mean past scam promoters should have nay access to money especially other peoples money.
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Dillard is NOT a convicted felon like Madoff and he is NOT in jail. In fact, he roams freely in Austin, TX. When and if the authorities swoop in and arrest him, then we can talk.
And Madoff for decades was not a convicted felon either! So in your reasoning Madoff was not doing anything wrong until the second sentence was passed on him? and you are the one trying to lecture me on redemption and morality?
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Here is another real life example. My wife has a qualified retirement plan where she works here in the US. She is 61 and is fully vested in the plan. However, according to the rules of the plan as determined by the employer, my wife can only move the funds INSIDE of the plan. In other words, her company is FORCING her to take a risk in the stock market. In other words, there are no SAFE options being offered.
Based on current circumstances, she cannot have full control over the funds until she LEAVES the company. What happens if there is another big market loss before she retires? Who would be responsible for the loss?
the pension fund manager who if he didnt end up in prison ( because he didnt break any laws) would probably be fired and would not be employed by any fund ever again?
Quote:
I obtained a legal opinion and was told that, according to SEC regulations, NO COMPANY can force an individual to take risk in the market. Yet this is common practice. The only option we have is to sue the company to force them to change the plan. We do not have the resources to do this.
So, I ask: is my wife being scammed? She sure is. Is her company breaking the law? Apparently. By extension, is she breaking the law by participating in an alleged illegal plan? If so, is this true of ALL employees who are participating?
this is off topic. Stick withthe scam. the old "all funds are scams" red herring isnt a runner with me.
Quote:
In the context of BB, it is beyond doubt that it is a scam. Does that mean that everyone who participated is a fraudster? Of course not. In fact, so-called "net losers" are referred to as "victims" of the fraud when a receiver is appointed.
anyone promoting or making money from it it is a fraudster. Especially after they were informed about it.
Quote:
In the context of EVG, one failed program does not prove that the entire program is fraudulent. The Forex offering caused financial damage but there is no proof (to my knowledge) that Dillard knowingly directly participated in the fraudulent aspects. Back in 2008, AIG failed. Or did it? The FACT is that its BANKING division failed and not its INSURANCE division. Did AIG fail investors or was it just a PART of the company?
Well you are the one asking. Is it part of the company or not and is the company responsible for itself?
If a bank goes bust because one person mis invests all the money the WHOLE bank goes AFAIK.
Quote:
In any case, I can see that are some here who paint with a broad brush and that is not constructive in my opinion. Thanks to the rest who are fair minded and draw their own conclusion based on the information presented.
You already admitted your own bias - you are a member of this scheme. I am not! So please dont try to say my critique is not constructive. And to whom exactly do you refer when you refer to "some" here
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3 Attachment(s)
Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marsh56
Just as a point of clarification, I see a reference here to Mike Dillard's Elevation Group in the context of scammer Alan Sills.
As a member of the group, I can say it is NOT a scam program. I have benefited personally from more than one of Mike's programs. One benefit has been HUGE for my family.
With EVG, the program stands on its own. In other words, you do NOT have to recruit to make money.
Mark
This topic may need its own thread, I would be happy to discuss Mike Dillard and the Elevation Group for a while. There are a few reasons why I would consider EVG a scam.
It is a very common ruse to create a "hyperbolic scenario", offer a "cookie cutter solution", and charge a premium price for the "secrets". For instance the "dollar is going to implode", "silver" is the only answer, and that will be $2000 a year please. Mike Dillard at best is offering nickel solutions with a dollar price tag. At worst he is completely incompetent and/or a fraud peddling unsuitable highly priced products. The latter is not what really matters to me, but you can infer where I lean.
My opinion of course. Any time someone starts peddling "secrets of the rich" or "think like the rich", you are about to be screwed out of some money. The rich are not some monolithic group of people as Robert Kiyosaki et. al would have us believe. Some work hard, others are lazy. Some positive thinkers, others clinically depressed. Some strong family people, some serial adulterers who raised bratty children. Some earned their wealth, some stole it, some inherited it, and some a bit of each. To put it in a box and sell it may be profitable, but that is where it ends.
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In 2011 Mike Dillard was 90% in on silver at about $35ish per oz preaching hyperinflation and the crash of the dollar. Not only did neither materialize, silver is now selling at $18ish. No one needs to pay to lose 50% of their money. Telling your followers you are 90% in any asset class with all the options available today is reckless at best.
The bigger problem I have is his silver theory does not square with what has happened over the last 200 years. There have been any number of "apocalyptic" scenarios that have unfolded over that time. The current debt crisis in Argentina, the previous Asian, Mexican, and Russian panics. All have come and gone, and the world has kept turning with nary a yawn. I own a little silver, and hear the talk of $100 an OZ, would be nice but mine will be for sale long before that.
Attachment 8365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
marsh56
A few years ago, I was involved in a Forex program where a lot of participants lost money. Each of us signed a Power of Attorney, allowing a "professional" trader (who was vetted) to trade our accounts. He had a proven track record of steady returns in the 4-8% per month range (not uncommon for those who successfully trade for a living)
Second, he was totally honest up front with participants and did what he could to make the situation whole. I am NOT defending Dillard but this was a classic case of guilt by association. The OTHER party was the scammer and Dillard was duped. No excuse, just fact
The silver thing I would chalk up to bad advice, the $50,000,000 Forex implosion to either gross incompetence or outright fraud. Maybe a bit of both, no matter any competent financial professional would see 100% per year not only improbable, but a certain scam. Unlike serial scam pusher Alan Sills, who was gushing over what the rich do with their money.
Attachment 8366
There is NO publicly available data that ANY traders earn 4-8% per month consistently. There are upper limits to everything, even market making firms that trade customer orders. Someone able to earn a high return on a small amount of money is rare enough, scaling that up to millions almost unheard of. Occasionally someone hits it big just like in Vegas, often they give a chunk of it back. None of these people are courting $10,000 investors. Barrons, publishes results of hedge funds every few issues, you are lucky to find one with a five year track record much less one with five years and 500% percent. The high returns of super traders is something of a tale told in scam circles to part people from their money.
Known or should have known this was a scam, there is no excuse. Especially not when you are charging fees as an "expert".
Profitability in Forex trading does not even pass the statistical muster of 50/50 that one would think. That is just break even, no fancy of 100% yearly returns. Leaves us to conclude that it is a bit like the old market chestnut "the only people who buy at bottoms and sell at the tops are the liars".
https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=3731
Attachment 8367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
marsh56
In fact, one entity offers investing in multi-unit properties. In the US, this can only be offered to ACCREDITED investors as determined by the SEC. Surely if EVG were a scam, again the authorities would be all over it since the company is very transparent
I don't know the particulars of this deal, but I will speculate based on what we have seen thus far.
There are any number of high fee, low liquidity, private REITs dumped on the public. This is also true for a plethora of Oil and Gas partnerships. That someone is an accredited investor does not mean it is a good deal. There are plenty of rich widows that get sold this kind of crap without regard for suitability or ethics even if the partnerships are "legal".
Investor Alert - Public Non-Traded REITs?Perform a Careful Review Before Investing - FINRA
Non-Traded REITs :: Stock Broker Fraud Blog
Finra Steps Up Probe of Nonlisted REIT Sales Amid Complaints on Disclosure - Bloomberg
Non-traded REIT is a non-starter - MarketWatch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
marsh56
Here is what I DO know: I have participated in more than one program inside of EVG (NOT the trading one) and my family has benefited substantially from them. The contracts I have are with legal and regulated insurance companies here in the US, companies that have been in business for over 100 years
Equity Indexed Life Insurance and their close cousins are another one of those high fee products that are often sold as a panacea of the rich. I have my doubts as to Dillard's altruistic interest in promoting these products.
Here is what I would suggest for anyone who has one of these to make sure your policy is properly funded. Have an "in force proposal" run to age 100 with all of the touted "tax free withdraws", BUT look at what happens at the guaranteed MAXIMUM expense rates and guaranteed MINIMUM rate of return. Plan for the worst, hope for the best is the only prudent money strategy.
In the ones I have seen, the policy will lapse, which not only causes a major tax liability, it occurs at an age were few will have many options. (I don't believe the 8-9-10 percent static returns that are presented, the market simply does not move that way.) History has further shown that seldom do the returns illustrated match the returns received. This is why it is imperative to make sure the policy does not lapse under a worst case scenario.
Disadvantages of Equity Indexed Life Insurance | Finance - Zacks
I have no idea who this guy is (as in I have no knowledge of him as an agent), but the article is relevant to the premise of my concern.
Why I Still Don’t Trust Indexed Universal Life! | Life Insurance, Hinerman Group
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
marsh56
Here is another real life example. My wife has a qualified retirement plan where she works here in the US. She is 61 and is fully vested in the plan. However, according to the rules of the plan as determined by the employer, my wife can only move the funds INSIDE of the plan. In other words, her company is FORCING her to take a risk in the stock market. In other words, there are no SAFE options being offered.
I obtained a legal opinion and was told that, according to SEC regulations, NO COMPANY can force an individual to take risk in the market. Yet this is common practice. The only option we have is to sue the company to force them to change the plan. We do not have the resources to do this
This is an area where it might be a better use of your money to consult a fee only adviser that comes with strong professional references. If your wife's plan does not have a fixed account to move some of the money to, you could always construct a hedge of some sort to guard against a loss. Especially if there is a large amount of company stock involved.
Put Option Definition | Investopedia
There are a lot of areas I feel I can "afford" to take an occasional hit in the wallet. If a contractor pads his bill a little that may hurt my feelings, it will not put my family in the poorhouse. With something like Mike Dillard and EVG one $50,000,000 blow up is enough to convince me he is the wrong guy for the job.
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Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Quote:
Originally Posted by
littleroundman
You are kidding yourself if you believe Dillard was "unintentionally" involved in what the CFTC / SEC described in court documents as a multi million dollar "massive fraud"
The man was busted, faced civil proceedings, found liable for violations of Federal Law and coughed up his share of a $750,000 disgorgement.
If you want to believe it was all an accident, fine, it's your money and your right to do so.
But, P-U-H-L-E-A-S-E don't come here to a forum full of old hands at the scammin' game and expect to pull the wool over their eyes with excuses straight out of the "Get-Rich-quickers Handbook"
As Ribshaws excellent analysis shows
Either he is a scammer who has a history of scamming or
He is so entirely incompetent that you can guarantee (and unlike a scammer I am loathe to guarantee anything 100% but in this case ill make an exception ) you will lose money based on his investment advice.
It is foolish to invest in such a lose/lose proposition. Of course anyone who did make money out of him will have a biased view just as many of the few who got money back out of BB do.
March iIm beginning to doubt either your reasoning abilityor your bone fides ( given your bias to something out of which you made money as opposed to BB which you apparently didnt make anything out of and deem it a scam). Im wondering if you lost on other other and gained on BB would you be calling BB a legit scheme and dismissing any reasoned argument based more on your personal greed than objective reason.
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Re: Elevation; Investment Intelligence Corporation; dba Prophetmax Managed fx; Senen Pousa, Joel Friant, Michael Dillar
First, it would have been helpful to let me know that this thread had been moved. A little common courtesy goes a long way. To be clear, I was not the one who opened the door on the reference to Dillard.
Second, it is clear that Beacon and LRM are always right. Therefore, there is no logical reason to continue the conversation. In my 58 years on this planet, I have personally known people who have been involved in civil and criminal proceedings who were not FRAUDSTERS. Making that jump is not always correct.
Regarding Ribshaw's analysis, I will sum it up as follows. Assuming he does NOT have an EVG membership (correct me if I am wrong), he is most likely not aware of what is on the inside.
To be clear, it is first an educational site. Then it offers a "Rolodex" of Dillard's contacts. The member then makes direct contact with anyone on the Rolodex and makes his OWN decisions on whether or not to participate.
To my knowledge, and based on over 35 years experience in financial services, NO ONE has a crystal ball when it comes to investing. I actually prefer the monkey throwing darts analogy for stock picks! Dillard and his gold and silver contacts are surely not the ONLY ones who have been incorrect with their predictions in the SHORT term. Personally, I believe investing in these commodities is more an art than a science.
As a point of clarification, there are many flavors of customized life insurance plans available as a safe means of saving. Indexed Universal Life (IUL) plans can actually have the LOWEST fees among other options. There are also customized plans available with certain carriers where the fees can disappear over time.
By the way, this is not conjecture. All of these plans are BY CONTRACT. Our personal plan is a customized whole life plan and works just fine. It will be fully paid up in 10 years and there are ZERO ongoing fees. You can't believe everything you read on the Internet, can you? Then again, maybe Ribshaw believes he is always correct. Not sure yet.
In any case, I do appreciate Ribshaw's analysis. In the end, I take personal responsibility for making my own decisions on my personal finances. More than one of Dillard's contacts has helped my wife and I in a big way. Period.
By the way, Dillard is available by appointment to speak. He is even open to meeting members in Austin at his office. If you wanted the "other side" of the story, why not give him a call and chat? Worked for me.
It is clear that at least Beacon and LRM do not believe in redemption, nor do they believe in "wrong place, wrong time". That's fine. You can go on being right and I will get on with my happy life. Cheers!
Mark
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Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beacon
As Ribshaws excellent analysis shows
Either he is a scammer who has a history of scamming or
He is so entirely incompetent that you can guarantee (and unlike a scammer I am loathe to guarantee anything 100% but in this case ill make an exception ) you will lose money based on his investment advice.
It is foolish to invest in such a lose/lose proposition. Of course anyone who did make money out of him will have a biased view just as many of the few who got money back out of BB do.
March iIm beginning to doubt either your reasoning abilityor your bone fides ( given your bias to something out of which you made money as opposed to BB which you apparently didnt make anything out of and deem it a scam). Im wondering if you lost on other other and gained on BB would you be calling BB a legit scheme and dismissing any reasoned argument based more on your personal greed than objective reason.
Beacon, this is so illogical, especially for you. Sometimes, logic can get in the way of reason. Then again, I have established that you and LRM are ALWAYS right.
The name is Mark, in case you were wondering or are having trouble reading or spelling.
For the record, I joined BB back in 2012 based on the recommendation of a good and trusted friend. He claimed to know "insiders" and I believed him. In hindsight, shame on me. BB was my last online mistake. I am done with online scams.
Back to Dillard, much is covered in my last post. Financial services is my wheelhouse. To clarify even further, in my case I paid a ONE TIME fee to Dillard and have permanent access to the member site and, therefore, to the Rolodex. In other words, EVG is a REFERRAL service. Get it? You should because you are all knowing and you are always right.
It is up to ME and only ME if I choose to do business with one of his contacts. In each case, I scout the competition to compare and contrast before making my final decision.
The challenge with you guys is that you are CONNECTING EVG with online scams like BB. Good for you. Continue on your crusade to always be right. I will continue on my path to grow my brick and mortar financial services business.
By the way, my "objective reason" is just fine. Thanks for asking.
Mark
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Re: Elevation; Investment Intelligence Corporation; dba Prophetmax Managed fx; Senen Pousa, Joel Friant, Michael Dillar
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marsh56
First, it would have been helpful to let me know that this thread had been moved. A little common courtesy goes a long way.
First i spent a deal of time locating the references in the3 BB thread.
Second I only set this thread up less than 24 hrs ago.
Third if you posted anything in the other thread someone would have redirected you.
Fourth I had to wait until all the messaged were moved.
Quote:
To be clear, I was not the one who opened the door on the reference to Dillard.
Correct. You were the one that claimed he was a skilled investor and legitimate businessman.
Quote:
Second, it is clear that Beacon and LRM are always right. Therefore, there is no logical reason to continue the conversation.
Neither myself or LRM claimed we were always right. In fact if you knowanything about me you would know I rarely make claims. If you claim anything about Dillard it is for you to support it. Run away if you wish but dont shift the burden and expect anyone else to prove you wrong it is for you to prove yoour own claims or at least show what test would disprove them.
Quote:
In my 58 years on this planet, I have personally known people who have been involved in civil and criminal proceedings who were not FRAUDSTERS. Making that jump is not always correct.
so what? Assumption of guilt is not grounds to convict anyone of a crime. I was not claiming to be capable of legally judging or incarcerating anyone. This isnt a law court. Ill leave that to the police or courts. People can however assume someone is a scammer and discuss it. Or they can run away from the discussion.
Quote:
Regarding Ribshaw's analysis, I will sum it up as follows. Assuming he does NOT have an EVG membership (correct me if I am wrong), he is most likely not aware of what is on the inside.
So I have to join the KKK before I can say they are racist?
Clearly any business should produce performance stats. also there are plenty of stats external to a programme to show how it should perform. Also, I suggest you look up "argument from ignorance" it isnt logical to claim that you have to be correct based on "secret" occult knowledge to which nobody has access. You might as well say pixies are operating the scheme.
Quote:
To be clear, it is first an educational site. Then it offers a "Rolodex" of Dillard's contacts. The member then makes direct contact with anyone on the Rolodex and makes his OWN decisions on whether or not to participate.
So? Other than it is a list of contacts you have provided no evidence of anyone providing any function. I suppose the "education" element is wher you are "educated" in how to part from your money by transferring it directly or indirectly to him?
Quote:
To my knowledge, and based on over 35 years experience in financial services, NO ONE has a crystal ball when it comes to investing.
Which is a direct contradiction of the first message in this thread
Quote:
There still are occasional "gems" out there (maybe 1% or less) and EVG is one of them
Quote:
I actually prefer the monkey throwing darts analogy for stock picks! Dillard and his gold and silver contacts are surely not the ONLY ones who have been incorrect with their predictions in the SHORT term. Personally, I believe investing in these commodities is more an art than a science.
Again this isnt a defence. Saying all the other guys were crooks/fools/useless too isnt supporting the claim that Dilart is straight/smart/adept is it?
Also saying "I cant predict everything" is a total reversal of your earlier claim of "investment gem"
Quote:
In any case, I do appreciate Ribshaw's analysis. In the end, I take personal responsibility for making my own decisions on my personal finances. More than one of Dillard's contacts has helped my wife and I in a big way. Period.
So he gave you a contact one of whom gave you advice? so what? How does that prove he is a competent investment adviser?
Quote:
By the way, Dillard is available by appointment to speak. He is even open to meeting members in Austin at his office. If you wanted the "other side" of the story, why not give him a call and chat? Worked for me.
Maybe someone will but you are the one making the claim so it is for you to support it.
Quote:
It is clear that at least Beacon and LRM do not believe in redemption,
and how is that clear? I think I clearly stated I was for redemption. But while I might give an abuser a new start I do not think they should be put in a position where they can abuse again or even be under the suspicion of abuse. Redemption means wiping the slate clean it does not necessarily mean allowing them the opportunity to offend again. Paying a debt back is one thing but allowing the same person to borrow even more after that is another.
Quote:
nor do they believe in "wrong place, wrong time". That's fine. You can go on being right and I will get on with my happy life.
Nice try at the misdirection but this isnt about your false redefinition of "redemption" it is about you proving your claims about an investment programme.
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Re: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marsh56
Beacon, this is so illogical,
Really? How so?
Quote:
especially for you.
Logic is logic there isnt a different logic for everyone like you seem to think.
Quote:
Sometimes, logic can get in the way of reason.
Logic and reason are codependent. care to supply examples of logic getting in the way of reason?
Quote:
Then again, I have established that you and LRM are ALWAYS right.
No you havent! You only claimed it. and you failed to support that claim. so it remains an unsupported claim. Of course it may be true. See? that is logic.
Quote:
The name is Mark, in case you were wondering or are having trouble reading or spelling.
So what? Change your username then. If you want me to call you Mark then I will but I refer to your username in replies.
Quote:
For the record, I joined BB back in 2012 based on the recommendation of a good and trusted friend. He claimed to know "insiders" and I believed him.
Off topic but I note you dont seem to apply the same reasoning to dillard as above you claim secret "insider" knowledge as proof of his system.
Quote:
In hindsight, shame on me. BB was my last online mistake. I am done with online scams.
But not with admitted scammers?
Quote:
Back to Dillard, much is covered in my last post. Financial services is my wheelhouse. To clarify even further, in my case I paid a ONE TIME fee to Dillard and have permanent access to the member site and, therefore, to the Rolodex. In other words, EVG is a REFERRAL service. Get it? You should because you are all knowing and you are always right.
I can only base what I state on what you claim. Above you claimed you were done with online scams. They you claim you PAID money over to an admitted scammer.
Go figure.
Quote:
It is up to ME and only ME if I choose to do business with one of his contacts. In each case, I scout the competition to compare and contrast before making my final decision.
But you admit the person giving you his list of contacts is an admitted scammer? It is up to you if you want to be involved with an admitted scammer but how does that prove this scammer has any expertise at all in finance?
Quote:
The challenge with you guys is that you are CONNECTING EVG with online scams like BB. Good for you. Continue on your crusade to always be right. I will continue on my path to grow my brick and mortar financial services business.
The challenge with you is you cant seem to connect 1. "admitted scammer having paid over money as a result of a court case giving unsound advice and stealing from people" with
2."admitted scammer now asking people for more money"
Do you note ANY similarity at all?
Quote:
By the way, my "objective reason" is just fine. Thanks for asking.
Great apply it to 1 and 2 above would you?
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Re: Elevation; Investment Intelligence Corporation; dba Prophetmax Managed fx; Senen Pousa, Joel Friant, Michael Dillar
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marsh56
Regarding Ribshaw's analysis, I will sum it up as follows. Assuming he does NOT have an EVG membership (correct me if I am wrong), he is most likely not aware of what is on the inside.
I am not a member of EVG or any other advisory-ish service so no I don't know what is on the inside. I can see what is ADVERTISED to get me in, and we are talking 100s of sites advertising and redirecting me to it. On something like the "real estate investment" or "insurance contracts" I do have to speculate what is being offered, but that does not mean I am wrong or pulling things out of thin air. One of the reasons I try to link articles that are relevant. By all means if as a member you can upload things for discussion without violating your T&C please do so as it would only add to the thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marsh56
To be clear, it is first an educational site. Then it offers a "Rolodex" of Dillard's contacts. The member then makes direct contact with anyone on the Rolodex and makes his OWN decisions on whether or not to participate.
MORE ON THIS LATER
AUSTIN, Texas — March 13, 2013 — The Elevation Group claims to give users the “black box investment strategies of the ultra rich,” and teach investors how to earn a guaranteed 6-10 percent return with no risk of principle.However, when Better Business Bureau asked the company to back up those claims, the response lacked substantiation.
The Elevation Group makes big claims, offers little proof
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marsh56
To my knowledge, and based on over 35 years experience in financial services, NO ONE has a crystal ball when it comes to investing. I actually prefer the monkey throwing darts analogy for stock picks! Dillard and his gold and silver contacts are surely not the ONLY ones who have been incorrect with their predictions in the SHORT term. Personally, I believe investing in these commodities is more an art than a science.
I think we largely agree on this point, but will toss out my premise on the markets and investing. There are very few "investment managers" of any stripe that outperform the market over any given period. Just because someone has smashed the market for X years it does not mean that streak will continue. Looking ahead 30-40 years I dare say it is almost impossible to determine which person/strategy will do best. One of the best first to last cautionary tales I know. Victor Niederhoffer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Although I do some active trading on my own, I am a big fan of a balanced portfolio of index funds, this is probably the definitive book on the subject.
A Random Walk Down Wall Street: The Time-Tested Strategy for Successful Investing (Tenth Edition): Burton G. Malkiel: 9780393340747: Amazon.com: Books
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marsh56
As a point of clarification, there are many flavors of customized life insurance plans available as a safe means of saving. Indexed Universal Life (IUL) plans can actually have the LOWEST fees among other options. There are also customized plans available with certain carriers where the fees can disappear over time.
By the way, this is not conjecture. All of these plans are BY CONTRACT. Our personal plan is a customized whole life plan and works just fine. It will be fully paid up in 10 years and there are ZERO ongoing fees. You can't believe everything you read on the Internet, can you?
There are NO insurance contracts that have 0 ongoing fees, at a minimum there are mortality expenses. With the more exotic products the fees can run several percent a year, all one need to do is look at their prospectus and have a team of attorneys explain it. My concern is not whether a permanent life insurance contract is a good or bad vehicle, it is one of if it is used is it properly funded.
If the plan is sold to deliver an income stream from policy loans that are not repaid until death then it must not lapse under the maximum fee/minimum return scenario in my opinion. If it does then the retiree is in for a tax and income nightmare. It is not a matter of believing everything you read on the internet as much as it is believing what you read that is relevant. Once or twice a year this question/issue will pop up in some financial article. Someone who thought they had a paid up policy suddenly because of policy loans gets a massive premium bill that must be paid or the policy will lapse. You can always "hope for better" when it comes to returns, but no way in hell would I bet my families future someone's word, I want the guarantee in writing.
Unfortunately there are a lot of people selling/buying these things who have no idea what they are getting themselves into. If done wrong they can be a financial time bomb.
"John Bruins, a vice president with the trade group American Council of Life Insurers, said many insurance companies agree that "tighter rules are needed" for the policies to help clarify for consumers that any presentation of robust index-based returns isn't guaranteed."
State Probes Indexed Universal Life Sales Practices - WSJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marsh56
Then again, maybe Ribshaw believes he is always correct. Not sure yet.
In any case, I do appreciate Ribshaw's analysis. In the end, I take personal responsibility for making my own decisions on my personal finances. More than one of Dillard's contacts has helped my wife and I in a big way. Period. Mark
Like anyone I make mistakes and try to bury them where no one will see. This is not a thread about restoring old cars or whittling duck calls where I have no knowledge. It is about money and scams where I enjoy spending some time, thought, and do have some experience. While I would rather be correct than incorrect, it is more about putting out information and being correct.:RpS_wink:
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Re: Elevation; Investment Intelligence Corporation; dba Prophetmax Managed fx; Senen Pousa, Joel Friant, Michael Dillar
Quote:
Originally Posted by marsh56
Then again, I have established that you and LRM are ALWAYS right.
Err,
we're on a forum called REALSCAM.com which discusses, would you believe it - SCAMS
If a member or members decide to discuss only the most blatant and obvious scams, then a casual reader could certainly conclude any or all of the posters consider themselves to be "always right" as you have done.
On the other hand, it could also mean said posters are either lazy bastards who only discuss "low hanging fruit" easy to pick scams, or, they purposely avoid discussing borderline fraud and fraudsters.
One day when you have nothing better to do, go back to the beginning of REALSCAM.com and collate a list of all the frauds and fraudsters where we "got it wrong"
Quote:
Originally Posted by marsh56
To my knowledge, and based on over 35 years experience in financial services,
Right there is your first problem.
35 years in "financial services" is NOT the same as an equivalent amount of time researching and observing fraud.
To get down to tin tacks,
I wouldn't mind betting 2 years of observing online ponzi fraud and fraudsters would have been way more beneficial than all your 35 years experience in financial services when the Banners Broker "opportunity" was first presented to you.
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Re: Elevation; Investment Intelligence Corporation; dba Prophetmax Managed fx; Senen Pousa, Joel Friant, Michael Dillar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARSH56
In the end, I take personal responsibility for making my own decisions on my personal finances.
Glad to hear it.
Let's just assume, then, we're talking to the many others out there who are thankful forums such as this exist, are grateful for any insights and additional information we may provide
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Elevation; Investment Intelligence Corporation; dba Prophetmax Managed fx; Senen Pousa, Joel Friant, Michael Dillar
This is the kind of come on you get before you join Mike Dillard and the Elevation Group. Dillard's brand of puffery is all over these here interwebs. It is hardly anything new with the investment community to give off illusions that you will be making massive returns with little risk
Surely I don't know everyone's intent for joining EVG, but I am guessing when you read stuff like this it is not for some attorney's business card.
Attachment 8369
The Elevation Group Lesson 9 – Mike Dillard and Kip Herriage shows you how to protect profits in silver, how this all ends, and how to make 100% returns per year.
Lesson 9 is a power-packed conference all with one of Mike’s original mentors in investing, Kip Herriage. Kip is a former Wall Street’er who went solo many years ago and is the editor of one of the most successful stock portfolio newsletters in the world… How successful? Well 9 out of the last 10 years, it’s averaged a 100%+ return per year… When I want to know what’s going on in the market, and how to position my assets to profit, Kip is the guy I listen to most, and who’s portfolio I follow most. Period.
==============================================
There are any number of ways people in the investment business can goose numbers to make things look better than they really were. Always going to be conflicts between services that rank investment letters and the firms about the method used to calculate return. I take a long term view of returns to assess what is likely to occur, over years I don't see ANY arguments about return calculations that are off by 90% a year.
Hulbert's top adviser returned about 10% per year out of hundreds tracked since his service started. I leave it to the reader to believe unaudited 100% per year returns, and to ask why someone would even mention it?
34 years
Hulbert on Investing: Can You Beat the Market? - WSJ
Newsletter Returns: Be Skeptical - Barron's
Why Investment Newsletters Don't Work
================================================== =====
I have to wonder why the Texas 2-Step with this one?
The Elevation Group makes big claims, offers little proof
March 13, 2013
BBB advises consumers to be wary of too-good-to-be-true investment offers
AUSTIN, Texas — March 13, 2013 — The Elevation Group claims to give users the “black box investment strategies of the ultra rich,” and teach investors how to earn a guaranteed 6-10 percent return with no risk of principle.However, when Better Business Bureau asked the company to back up those claims, the response lacked substantiation.
BBB recommends consumers be wary of any too-good-to-be-true claims made by financial advisors or self-proclaimed “investment gurus.” Such claims are often unsubstantiated and can sometimes be a red flag for a scam.
BBB received more than 150 requests for information about The Elevation Group in the last 12 months. The company is listed as a wealth building seminar, a category BBB considers to be an inherent problem. Consumers have alleged that similar seminars do not provide the promised returns or are outright scams.
The Elevation Group offers investment advice in the form of articles published on its website, which members pay to access.
In a free introductory webinar on the company’s website,owner Michael Dillard paints a grim picture of our country’s future. He makes a number of predictions, one of which is the collapse of the U.S. dollar. He claims he can help consumers avoid financial ruin during this collapse with the secret investing techniques he has collected. To access these secrets, he charges as much as $197 per month.
In December, BBB questioned several claims made in thiswebinar as well as his claims of a guaranteed return, no risk of principle and thatinvestors could pull 100 percent of their money out of the investments atanytime and without paying any tax.
Dillard responded that in order to provide proof of the investment claims, he would have to consult with the certified financial planner who provided the strategy. However, he never provided any substantiation for the claims, nor any information about consumers who have earned the promised returns. In fact, the site he provided for the financial planner showed no claims of guaranteed returns, liquidity of assets or safety of principle.
As for his claim that the U.S. dollar will collapse, he provided the following statement: “Fact: No fiat currency in human history has ever lasted into perpetuity. One-hundred percent of all fiat currencies ever created, have come to an end.”
A fiat currency is simply any currency that derives its value from government regulation or law rather than a hard asset, such as gold or silver reserves. The U.S. dollar, British pound and the Euro are all examples of fiat currencies.
In addition, BBB found Dillard sometimes contradicts his own statements.
While The Elevation Group’s webinar began with a disclaimer that these predictions are Dillard’s personal opinion, he continuously used phrases like “This is reality,” and “This will happen.” When BBB asked him whether he was stating fact or opinion, he responded that the questioned claims were opinion, but were also “mathematically proven.”
Dillard did not provide the mathematical proof that he cited— though he did cite some statistics about the national debt — nor did he respond to BBB’s request that he provide the source for each of his claims. Instead, he said he gathers his information from a variety of sources, and provided links to several websites. He did not respond to BBB’s second request to clarify which claim came from which source.
Dillard also stated that his advice comes from interviews with licensed financial professionals, though many of the articles on his website are authored by “The EVG research team.” BBB asked him to clarify how he verifies the credentials of each expert he interviews, but Dillard did not respond to that request.
When looking into an investment opportunity, BBB offers thefollowing advice:
Do your research. Check the business or investment firm’s BBB Business Review at bbb.org. Also, check out BBB Smart Investing for smart investment tools, advice and tips to avoid scams and fraud from BBB and the FINRA Investor Education Foundation.
Avoid high-pressured pitches. Do not feel pressured to “act now.”Take time to research any possible investment yourself. Any legitimate companywill give you the time you need to make the decision best for you.
Confirm registration and licensing. Before investing any money, make sure the investment advisor or representative is registered and licensed.You can reference the Central Registration Depository through the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commissioner the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority.
Watch out for red flags. There are a variety of investment scams out there. Look for the following red flags:
Requires a large upfront investment. Untrustworthy schemers might try to convince consumers to pay a lot of money upfront so they can get out of town with a large haul, rather than wait for the funds to trickle in.
Promises high returns for low risk. Every investment comes with a level of risk. Typically the amount of risk increases with the potential return on the investment. If the seminar is trying to sell an investment scheme that claims a high return with little or no risk, beware, even if it comes with the promise of a money-back guarantee.
Relies on off-shore investments. Presenters may try to give their scheme an air of sophistication by relying on overseas investments such as foreign currency, property, stocks and bonds. Also, they might falsely claim taxes can be avoided by investing overseas.
To check the reliability of a company and find trustworthy businesses, visit bbb.org.
The Elevation Group makes big claims, offers little proof
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Re: Elevation; Investment Intelligence Corporation; dba Prophetmax Managed fx; Senen Pousa, Joel Friant, Michael Dillar
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Re: Elevation; Investment Intelligence Corporation; dba Prophetmax Managed fx; Senen Pousa, Joel Friant, Michael Dillar
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ribshaw, quoting the Better Business Bureau
As for his claim that the U.S. dollar will collapse, he provided the following statement: “Fact: No fiat currency in human history has ever lasted into perpetuity. One-hundred percent of all fiat currencies ever created, have come to an end.”
I've come to view references to "fiat currency" and the purported soon-to-be collapse of the dollar as ripped from the pages of a sort of shared scammers' playbook on how to rope conservative Christians/political conservatives and Right-leaning individuals into a scam. (This is not to say that Dem./liberal/Left-leaning money will be declined, if it's available.)
The 2009 Trevor Cook Ponzi scheme in Minnesota gathered a head of steam in part through the pitches of Pat Kiley, who advised his radio audience that he was about to share shocking, “confidential” information about an “unprecedented wave of massive, massive social chaos” about to occur in the United States.
Some of the schemes necessarily must create a bogeyman (or something else to fear) in order to thrive. President Clinton was out of the White House for eight years when 2009 rolled around. Kiley was still railing about him. Naturally, he also railed against President Obama.
One of the core incongruities is that, with all this ranting against fiat currency (and often "the Fed"), the scammers want to get paid in U.S. dollars. The Cook/Kiley Forex scheme collected about 194 million in greenbacks, some of which were used to purchase the most famous mansion in Minneapolis and real estate on a private island in Canada (that was accessible only by snowmobile in winter). Naturally there was real estate at the edge of a golf course in Florida, too --plus a generous selection of big-screen TVs, booze and regular evenings out with exotic dancers. Some of the money appears to have disappeared in Switzerland and the Middle East.
The investors were horrified when they found out how their money had been used. Two of the victims were in their 90s, residents of a nursing home.
One early witness, who later became a defendant-pitchman, testified that Cook was bragging about a submarine (submersible watercraft as opposed to a sandwich) he'd purchased on eBay. This craft was said not to have worked well in the darker waters of Canada, and so was moved to Panama, where the waters apparently were less viscous and more sub-friendly.
On a side note, when Zeek Rewards clawback defendant T. LeMont Silver parachuted from Florida into the Dominican Republic after the collapse of Zeek and three other other scams he promoted, he landed at the door of a company that claimed its clients will “Survive the Collapse of Fiat Currencies, Including the Dollar & Euro.” T. LeMont now has moved on to BitClub Network. One of the first promo pages I observed for that emerging scheme said this: "[fu**] fiat."
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ribshaw, quoting the Better Business Bureau
The Elevation Group . . . guaranteed 6-10 percent return with no risk of principle.
With Cook/Kiley, the "guarantee" was between 10 and 12 percent, perhaps greater.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ribshaw, quoting the Better Business Bureau
BBB
Did anybody "defending" the Elevation Group rail against the BBB?
In a particular wing of MLM/direct sales, the marks get the catechism that the BBB can't be trusted. Happened in Zeek. Happened in ASD. Happened in Data Network Affiliates (with Piccolo's scam crew even naming a "product" after the BBB). Happened in Narc That Car. Happened in MPB Today. Happens in cash-gifting pyramid schemes.
The BBB was right in each and every one of these schemes.
PPBlog
