Thread: Elevation; Investment Intelligence Corporation; dba Prophetmax Managed fx; Senen Pousa, Joel Friant, Michael Dillard

Where do I start? First, have any of you bothered to read the earnings disclaimer at the EVG site? Dillard is NOT an RIA (Registered Investment Adviser), nor does he claim to be.

Second, some of you have no problem finding dirt on ONE of this Rolodex vendors. Does that mean they ALL are crooks and fraudsters? As I mentioned in a previous post, if you dig hard enough, you can find dirt on most anyone. That does not mean the claims are always true.

For example, take any large law firm and look for dirt on each attorney. If one turns up muddy, does that mean the entire firm is rotten? Even better, apply the same tactic to an INVESTMENT firm. You will find dirt there all day long!

Too often on the Internet these days, OPINIONS are stated as FACTS. It is up to each individual to do his own diligence and come to his own conclusions.

Third, Dillard REFERS members to his vendors. In each case, the member receives full disclosure on the service or the offer. Business is conducted one on one with the vendor either in person or by electronic means (online meeting etc.).

Any business conducted is done DIRECTLY with the vendor. In my case, I have done business with one of the vendors. I have a customized insurance policy with a GUARANTEE of 4% credited annually to the cash surrender value BY CONTRACT. With whom? With the vendor? No. With a legal reserve life insurance company here in the US.

If you add dividends (not guaranteed but paid every year for the past 100+ years), the current annual compounded average is about 6%. This type of plan can be easily verified by contacting one of the insurance companies that provides them. The "secret", so to speak, is the customization. In other words, these plans are not available on a "retail" level.

Why? The primary reason is that it takes specialized knowledge and training on the part of agents to explain and design the plans based on an individual's needs. Further, carriers must be on board with the strategy and crunch the necessary actuarial numbers in order for the plans to work as designed.

There, now you have an education on just one of the elements found within EVG. Not everything is as it seems--especially when it comes to money and finance. There are LARGE blocks of vested interest (think Wall Street) that do not want certain strategies to enter the mainstream. No, I am not talking conspiracy theories. This vested interest can be traced back to the origins of our modern banking system and investment platform.

By the way, Dillard is certainly not alone in predicting the collapse of the US dollar. Anyone who believes that a fiat currency can go on indefinitely is a fool, in my opinion. Debate is good. More to come.

Mark

For someone that's allegedly not a scammer, you reeeeeeeeeally seem to be going out of your way to defend him. If he's not, he'll stand on his own merits and everyone will ignore all the signs just as you did.

Originally Posted by PPBlog

One of the core incongruities is that, with all this ranting against fiat currency (and often "the Fed"), the scammers want to get paid in U.S. dollars. The Cook/Kiley Forex scheme collected about 194 million in greenbacks

There is a certain dark irony of people railing against fiat money recommending scams that allegedly trade fiat money.

Originally Posted by PPBlog

Did anybody "defending" the Elevation Group rail against the BBB?

I don't know they have too much to complain about considering, I looked it up apparently C is for Cookie.

The Elevation Group, Inc. Review - Investment Seminars in Austin, TX - BBB Business Review - BBB serving Central, Coastal, Southwest Texas and the Permian Basin

C is for Cookie.JPG

They may want get up in BBB's grill about Wealth Masters International rating. Apparently Kip Herriage got so tired of making 100% per year, and people got so tired of receiving those returns that a jealous BBB took to picking on his company.

Dillard assures you it is great, so must be so.



Wealth Masters International Review - MULTI-LEVEL SELLING CO. in Sugar Land, TX - BBB Business Review - BBB serving Greater Houston and South Texas

F is not for Cookie.jpg

Originally Posted by marsh56

Where do I start? First, have any of you bothered to read the earnings disclaimer at the EVG site? Dillard is NOT an RIA (Registered Investment Adviser), nor does he claim to be.

NOPE, but why does he need to hide behind it?

To be clear I despise all the liars that advertise returns that have NO basis in in reality. Be it Mike Dillard, Chuck Hughes, George Angell, Wade Cook, the promise and response to failure is always the same. It is irresponsible and sets people who can least afford to lose money to be scammed. When someone turns to the back page of IBD this weekend and sees 194 WINNERS and 3 LOSERS with GURUs Super System they know what I believe they can expect after their check has been cashed.

Profitmax.JPG
The Salty Droid – Mike Dillard & Senen Pousa Win 2012 Scam of the Year
Kip Herriage.JPG
Easy Money.jpg

Advertising like that is a bit like this...

King Kong.JPG

Since its Dillard's turn in the barrel, let's look at how he treats people after he has told them what a super successful investor he is and cashed their check.


Elevation Group - How Mike Dillard, one of the most successful marketers protects his wealth..

Posted 6th May 2011

“Silver Is Diving, Where Are You Mike!?”
May 5th, 2011 in Gold and Silver by Mike Dillard


I just received a panicked email from an EVG Member who is concerned out about the recent price decline in silver, and it’s the perfect opportunity for me to address several important topics, including the silver market…

“I joined this group, your service, because I thought your info re: things like Gold/Silver would help me, and that I would be able to get info like the Status of when to Buy/Sell, Etc… BUT, I can NOT even reach you… Silver has Dropped over $12/oz. and Gold almost $50/oz.

Your Last Webinar said it would still be going up for a while, and now I’ve lost everything I put into it –


EVG is not an advisory service. It’s not a “stock-picking” newsletter, and I am not a financial advisor.-DOES ANYONE BELIEVE THAT IF SILVER WENT TO A 100oz THAT THIS WOULD BE THE HUMBLE RESPONSE?

I am simply documenting what I am personally doing with my money… What I’m buying, what I’m selling, what I’m learning, and whom I’m working with…

If you join “investment newsletters”, follow their stock picks, and then cross your fingers… You’re ****ed. Seriously.

And you deserve it because that kind of decision is no different than going to Vegas and throwing your chips down on the roulette table. Without the proper financial education to back up your decision, you’re literally just placing a “bet”.

If you think that’s rude or crass… Good.

Now, moving on to the silver market…

I feel extremely frustrated when I see comments like the one above for two reasons…

It tells me that the person doesn’t understand the purpose of EVG… That they haven’t taken responsibility for their decisions, and that they didn’t educate themselves about the precious metals market… They don’t understand WHY I’ve been buying gold and silver for three years, nor do they understand why they bought them.

I’ve studied the currency market, global debt, and precious metals for three years. I know exactly why I have 90% of my assets in silver

SOME COMMENTARY FROM 100% A YEAR KIP. Who seemingly would rather sit through a 50% drop in silver than use his super trading system to keep increasing wealth of EVG members.

Now for those of you who are just DYING to know why silver has dropped 26% in less than a week, here’s a brief clip from Kip’s CPP newsletter which came out a few hours ago… I agree with it completely.

“The Attempted Destruction of Silver and Gold Investors

Make no mistake about it, the 4 day collapse in the price of both silver and gold….but especially in silver…is an effort to teach anyone that would dare question the legitimacy of the US dollar and the supremacy of the Federal Reserve, a lesson they won’t soon forget.


While gold is down just $60 from it recent all time high, silver has traded down to $36.50 this morning, or $13/oz from its recent highs. We’re talking about a 26% decline in the span of just a few days…truly remarkable.


In the days, weeks and months to come…even in the years to come…long term silver investors will see this for what it was; a planned and manipulated shakeout of the average investor…an attempt to make sure the public never views silver as a real alternative to paper currencies again. Silver has been called the “poor mans gold” for a reason. Historically, and certainly in the past few months, investors around the world have looked at silver as an inexpensive way to invest in precious metals without paying the price of a monthly mortgage payment per ounce. And these same investors tend to be the type that famously buy high and sell low, or the opposite of the smart money.

Originally Posted by marsh56

Too often on the Internet these days, OPINIONS are stated as FACTS. It is up to each individual to do his own diligence and come to his own conclusions.

Consider me some sort of interwebs Cliff Claven, you are right people are responsible for doing their own due diligence. Just because something is an OPINION does not mean it has no basis in EXPERIENCE. If I go to the dog park my OPINION is all the brown piles are ****, after age 9 EXPERIENCE taught me they were never chocolate.

Here are four years worth of links to the Barron's Top 100 hedge funds. I would consider this list to be a sample of the best traders in the world. NO ONE is returning 100% per year consistently or even close. My opinion remains the same, if someone like Dillard is telling you they know someone who is they are either incompetent or running a scam.

Top 100.JPG

Barron's Top 100 Hedge Funds - Barron's
Barron's Top 100 Hedge Funds - Barron's
Barron's Best 100 Hedge Funds - Barron's
Barron's Top 100 Hedge Funds Including William Ackman's Pershing Square - Barron's

Ha! boobies

Some interesting stats WRT 3 of the worlds' top investors:

* Warren Buffett, since taking control of Berkshire Hathaway 40 years ago, has delivered compound annual return of 22%.

* Soros Fund Management LLC is a privately held American investment management firm currently structured as a family office but formerly a hedge fund. The firm was founded in 1969 by George Soros and in 2010 was reported to be one of the most profitable firms in the hedge fund industry, averaging a 20% annual rate of return over four decades

* David Dreman: And the Dreman portfolio reaped the benefits, returning more than 37% in 2009 (vs. 23.5% for the S&P) and 23.1% in 2010 (vs. 12.8% for the S&P). Since its July 2003 inception, the 10-stock Dreman-based portfolio is well ahead of the S&P 500, returning 100.8%, or 7.2% annualized, vs. 68.5%, or 5.3 %, for the S&P (through Aug. 14).

They're all just posers.

Originally Posted by ribshaw, quoting from Dillard's May 6, 2011, citations attributed to Kip's Newsletter

Now for those of you who are just DYING to know why silver has dropped 26% in less than a week, here’s a brief clip from Kip’s CPP newsletter which came out a few hours ago… I agree with it completely.

“The Attempted Destruction of Silver and Gold Investors

Make no mistake about it, the 4 day collapse in the price of both silver and gold….but especially in silver…is an effort to teach anyone that would dare question the legitimacy of the US dollar and the supremacy of the Federal Reserve, a lesson they won’t soon forget.

While gold is down just $60 from it recent all time high, silver has traded down to $36.50 this morning, or $13/oz from its recent highs. We’re talking about a 26% decline in the span of just a few days…truly remarkable.

In the days, weeks and months to come…even in the years to come…long term silver investors will see this for what it was; a planned and manipulated shakeout of the average investor…an attempt to make sure the public never views silver as a real alternative to paper currencies again.

A couple of quick notes by way of introduction: I added the bolding above in areas that speak to a Federal Reserve/dollar conspiracy theory. Such conspiracy theories are used to loosen the purse strings of prospects who may be feeling anger/resentment against the government because of their life circumstances or because they have been conditioned by constant exposure to "offers" or media channels that demonize the government. Many HYIP/Forex/precious metals schemes sell themselves by attaching themselves to conspiracy theories that demonize government agencies, government workers and politicians.

A couple of years ago, JSSTripler/JustBeenPaid, for example, advertised a precompounding return of 730 percent a year -- all while advancing conspiracy theories and comparing the government to "the Mafia." One of the JSS/JBP pitchmen apparently came to believe a new wrinkle was needed: This pitchman then advanced a conspiracy theory that the Catholic Pope was controlling things in Washington.

I'm not sure if I've ever seen an HYIP/Forex/precious-metals "opportunity" within the MLM/direct-sales sphere that DIDN'T demonize the government or rely on conspiracy theories.

I was going to put the info (below) in the thread in which one of the topics is the menacing behavior and bizarre claims directed at Cosmic Connie. I'll put it here, though, because it speaks to the utterly bizarre things that happen in this wing of MLM/direct sales . . .

In November 2010, I was covering a scheme known as OWOW that was peddling purported cancer treatments and offering an investment "program" touted to pay at least 18 percent. By coincidence, I reported during this same time period about an FBI sting in Portland, Ore., that led to the arrest of a now-convicted individual who plotted to detonate a weapon of mass destruction at a Christmas tree lighting ceremony.

For whatever reason, my reporting on the Portland incident triggered a disturbing rant from an OWOW "supporter."

In short order, someone who called himself "John" demanded to know if I was "Israeli.” Israel itself was described as a "rogue state." I was also accused of racism and of spreading "Islamophobia." Based on my reporting on OWOW, which was selling purported cancer treatments in two forms -- bottled water and a baker's yeast extract -- I was described as a "two-bit hack." Among other things, someone within OWOW was falsely trading on the name of the National Institutes of Health.

It got crazier yet: "John," the person who demanded to know if I was Israeli, described the U.S. Food and Drug Administration as a "filthy cabal of criminals.” The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission was described as an agency that watched porn all day even as it allegedly "cover[ed] up" the "biggest financial crime i[n] history," specifically "the long term manipulation of the Gold and precious metals markets."

Unfinished still, "John" went on to assert that I was engaged in "snake oil Zionist terrorism" and that I was running interference for "Israeli scum bags like Micheal [sic] Chertof[f]," who was described as a "suspect" in the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

Michael Chertoff, whom I've never met but have admired for years for serving America so nobly and capably, is the former Secretary of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. He's also a former federal prosecutor and a former federal appeals judge. Chertoff gained prominence prosecuting cases involving Mafia figures. He also was on the team that prosecuted the colossal Enron financial fraud. Chertoff, very notably, also prosecuted Zacarias Moussaoui, the al-Qaeda figure.

To "John," though, Chertoff is an "Israeli scum bag," and I'm a Zionist-terrorist. My readers, including certain members of RealScam.com, are "MORONIC…WRONG…CRAP ANALYSYS…WRONG…HALFWITS…SCUMBAGS!" according to "John."

In any event, Connie's recent experience reminded me a lot of the fall of 2010 at the PP Blog. Connie was taunted as a Jew and as a Zionist whore. That's pretty extreme. But it's often the case that the taunts are much more subtle or passive-aggressive: the insult may be buried in what at first appears to be a compliment. People who speak out against scams may be derided as "all knowing" or people who present themselves as perfect beings incapable of making a mistake.

Whenever "they" sell by railing against the Fed or advancing conspiracy theories about market manipulation by the government to hamstring the precious-metals markets (or other markets) to ward off the "collapse" of the dollar and "fiat currencies," you are well into territory that absolutely screams scam. It is a signature red flag that shows up in scam after scam after scam.

The conspiracy theorists will conflate new realities to replace inconvenient fact sets and will retreat into an infinite set of contingencies. Nothing is too extreme. It is not uncommon for individual "supporters" of individual "programs" to outdo even the program sponsors on the conspiracy-theory front. Prospects may end up reading about reptilian aliens, "the Jews," "the Rothschilds," "the Bilderbergs" and NESARA.

AdSurfDaily figure Kenneth Wayne Leaming, a purported "sovereign citizen," allegedly described “the Rothschilds” in 2011 as hiding in a “bunker in India” while controlling the central bank of Iraq, according to an FBI complaint against Leaming in which he was alleged to have filed bogus liens against federal officials involved in the ASD case.

Banking conditions in Iraq were causing "the Rothschilds" to lose money, and the “inner circle” is “jumping ship,” Leaming allegedly ventured, “just like body odor’s inner circle in the White House.”

It is beyond disgusting. In one moment, a "program" might be selling against "the government." In the next moment, it might be tying to sanitize a scam by trading on the names of the President of the United States or a government agency. AdSurfDaily infamously traded falsely on the names of President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney. The Zeekers railed against "Social Security," describing it as a "legal pyramid scheme." The TelexFree hucksters traded on the names of President Obama, the SEC and Massachusetts Commonwealth Secretary William Galvin. The Ultimate Power Profits scammers traded on the name of President Obama. MPB Today traded on the name of President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, positioning them as Nazis. (In an animation, Obama was seen saluting Clinton with his left hand and saying, "Heil Hitlary.")

When people are selling guaranteed returns of a specific percentage or sum and railing against the Fed, their target market is the same type of person who might invest in a conspiracy theory.

PP Blog.

I entered a disposable email address on The Elevation Group's splash page on 12/13/2010. That account now contains 247 emails from "Mike Dillard" and 146 emails from "EVG Research Group". The only huckster who has ever mail-bombed me worse than that is Joel Therien (220 emails in one year!).

The vast majority of emails are urgent appeals for me to send them anywhere from $497 to over $1,000, frequently accompanied by an assurance that it is my LAST CHANCE to get access to their cornucopia of top-secret-known-only-to-the-wealthy-guaranteed-ways-to-get-rich-quick. The few that contain anything that resembles investment advice are laughable, like these excerpts from one I received on 8/6/2012:

Why Experts Say Gold
Is About to Rocket Higher...

"the real experts are quietly buying up as much of the yellow metal as they can. They believe gold has created a solid bottom and is ready to explode higher"
"it’s likely that within a few years, people will be wishing they had gotten in at $1600 – like you can today"
"Jim Rickards recently said in an interview that he wouldn’t be surprised to see gold reach $5000 per ounce within the next 18-24 months"
"the extremely conservative Erste Bank (based in Austria) just released their sixth annual report on Gold. Thy predict gold to reach $2000 per ounce within the next 12 months, and have $2300 per ounce as their longer term target (which they admitted was HIGHLY conservative)"
"If you’ve been thinking about buying gold or silver, this may bee your best opportunity before the price skyrockets"

Here's the gold price chart from the day I received that email through today:

gold prices.jpg

It's painfully obvious that Mike Dillard makes his living by sending emails trying to convince you that you need to send him your money today (if not sooner) before he closes the doors forever to sharing the secrets of the truly wealthy with small-fry people like you and me.

SD

.

Originally Posted by ribshaw

There is a certain dark irony of people railing against fiat money recommending scams that allegedly trade fiat money.

Agreed. I'd add that it's hard to distill this dark irony. The maximum dark irony of Cook/Kiley, I suppose, is that not only were they collecting fiat money from senior-citizen Christians while Kiley railed against America and its institutions, they were promoting returns of 10 to 12 percent a year paid in fiat money.

Some investors falsely were told the system worked because "the account containing the long position collected interest while the account containing the short position was not charged any interest because the account was located at an Islamic institution that complied with Shariah law," according to the SEC.

Meanwhile, the "program" came up with regal-rounding names such as "Oxford" to further dupe investors, and also falsely traded on the famous name of UBS -- again to disarm the masses. About $12.8 million from the scheme went "to finance the construction of a casino in Panama," according to court filings.

Cook elsewhere lost $4.8 million through gambling.

CNNMoney gives folks a little flavor of how Kiley sold the scheme here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q593C3UKi6o

SNIPPET: " . . . the government has plans for the gold you are physically holding."

SNIPPET: "Also on this broadcast -- Obama, when he was giving you a coded-message thing."

SNIPPET: " . . . another subject: when the economic breakdown occurs in the United States of America -- martial law."

SNIPPET: " And the Federal Reserve . . . lost . . ."

PPBlog

Wow. Some of you appear to have a lot of time on your hands. Must be nice!

Following are a couple points of clarification. First, the "trading" to which I am referring is FOREX. Before I choose a managed account option, I always insist on having read only access to a live account. Unless that option is available, I go no further.

If you look hard enough, you can find traders who average 2-8% per month. For the most part, these guys do not advertise and minimums can be quite high. Since FOREX is still pretty much the "wild west", scams far outweigh the legitimate programs in my experience. Just because there may not be independent audits does not mean that returns like these are not possible. Caveat emptor is the rule.

The saying, "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is" is NOT always TRUE! It is more of a mindset. If a person is close minded to certain concepts, then the legitimate opportunities will never present themselves.

Regarding Warren Buffett, did you know that a division of Berkshire Hathaway purchases life insurance contracts, also known as "life settlements"? In the US, the Supreme Court in 1911 determined that permanent life insurance contracts are an asset. Therefore, they can be bought, sold, traded and bartered just like any other asset.

A scenario goes like this: a person is 80 years old and is sickly but not terminal. She has a permanent death benefit of $2M and cash surrender value of, say, $200k. She wants money NOW. According to the contract, there are only two options. One is to surrender the policy and get a check for the $200k. However, the death benefit would disappear.

The other option is to borrow against the cash value. The good news is the money does not have to be paid back. Only simple interest is due annually and can be added to the loan as well if it will not cause the policy to lapse. Of course, the death benefit would be reduced by any outstanding loan amount plus interest.

Enter a THIRD option, not that well known, called the Life Settlement. In this case, the policyholder is offered an amount HIGHER than the current cash value paid to her TODAY and in CASH. In turn, she turns ownership over to the company purchasing the contract. It now becomes both the owner and the beneficiary.

The company now has a GUARANTEED equity position. The only "risk" is that the company is now responsible for the monthly premiums. If she outlives her life expectancy, the company's overall return would be less. However, the contracts that are purchased are based on actuarial determinations and life expectancy tends to be very accurate.

Guess who purchases many of these contracts other than Buffett? That's right, banks, large equity firms and hedge funds. Almost all of them keep the profits to themselves and that is their right.

However, there are some companies who purchase the contracts and then make them available for retail "participants". Notice I did not say "investors". According to the SEC, these "fractional life settlements" are an "alternative investment" under Regulation D. There are companies out there that guarantee a return of 11-16% BY CONTRACT, AT MATURITY. Due to the regulation, this cannot be quoted as an "annual rate of return" because the TOTAL is paid out at maturity, that is when the person dies. That number is the one and only variable in the equation.

For example, if someone participates with $10k and the life expectancy is 48 months, then the participant receives 44% if the person dies ANY time up to and including the 48 months. The risk is as follows: if the person lives longer, the participants must pay THEIR portion of the monthly premium until death occurs. This amount is paid out of pocket and would reduce the overall return. This seldom happens but must be disclosed up front.

Another reason this "alternative investment" is not well known is because it cannot be advertised to the general public. Interesting and ironic. The SEC also says you have to be an "accredited INVESTOR" to participate even though it is NOT an investment. Interesting again.

And guess what? A google search will quickly find "SCAM" written all over this industry. Does that mean that ALL companies in the business are scams? Of course not. Once again, the individual must do his own due diligence.

One company has a 20-year track record with many satisfied clients. Another was a clear Ponzi. Again, painting with a broad brush can close the door to legitimate opportunities before it is even opened.

So there you go. Further proof that double digit returns ARE indeed possible if you know where to look. In this case, the returns are OUTSIDE of the market as well. No sleepless nights wondering when the markets will correct or crash.

There, I had some time today to educate. You guys obviously ignored my post that stated I have a life insurance contract that credits a GUARANTEE of 4% annually and currently pays 6% with dividends. I found the company with the help of Dillard's Rolodex. For the record, the company is Paradigm Life. Insurance companies who offer these plans are very difficult to find. Even harder is finding an agent who is knowledgeable and experienced in this specialized area.

Is Paradigm a scam because they are associated with Dillard? Asked differently, why would they associate with Dillard if they thought he was a scammer?

You keep painting and I will keep educating.

Mark

Originally Posted by marsh56

Wow. Some of you appear to have a lot of time on your hands. Must be nice!

My post: 13 sentences.
Patrick's post: 11 sentences.
Your post: 71 sentences.

SD

.

So PPBlog, is Social Security NOT a legal Ponzi? Where does the money come from except from other participants?

Also, you do know that the Federal Reserve Bank is not "federal", has no money in "reserve" and is not a "bank", correct? It is a private corporation. It was never intended to have the power it has today to have fiat currency printed with impunity. Think "fear and greed" and "controlling the masses".

The IRS was supposed to be "temporary". What happened? Where does it say that the Founding Fathers ever considered a tax on a person's "fruit of his labor"? Congress and the IRS decided to redefine "income" in order to institute an "income tax". Did you know that to this day, applying to pay "income tax" (W-4 form) is "voluntary"? That wording USED TO BE on the actual form. Conveniently it has now disappeared. To my knowledge, the IRS code has not changed, just the form.

In other words, once you agree to be a "taxpayer", you then give the government the right to tax your income. Study the actual code. I did.

These references are not all "conspiracy theories" and merit some amount of reasonable discussion. It is amazing that the vast amount of any population chooses to just accept things and follow the status quo. There is a saying that if the blind leads the blind, they BOTH fall in the ditch!

Once again, painting with a broad brush often hides the truth. Why not keep an open mind and educate oneself?

Mark

Originally Posted by shipdit

My post: 13 sentences.
Patrick's post: 11 sentences.
Your post: 71 sentences.

SD

.

I said "some" of you. Can you not read? It was just a jest. Lighten up, my friend.

It seems YOU might have a lot of time in order to count sentences.

Life is full of irony.

Mark

Originally Posted by marsh56

The IRS was supposed to be "temporary". What happened? Where does it say that the Founding Fathers ever considered a tax on a person's "fruit of his labor"? Congress and the IRS decided to redefine "income" in order to institute an "income tax". Did you know that to this day, applying to pay "income tax" (W-4 form) is "voluntary"? That wording USED TO BE on the actual form. Conveniently it has now disappeared. To my knowledge, the IRS code has not changed, just the form.

In other words, once you agree to be a "taxpayer", you then give the government the right to tax your income. Study the actual code. I did.

http://www.realscam.com/f26/rules-gu...es-63/#post417

Please note that we do not have a political forum. We are not accepting posts of that nature at this time due to the difficulty of moderating a political discussions forum.

Last edited by Soapboxmom; 04-07-2013 at 05:55 PM.

It's OK, Blue Wolf,

I'm prepared to allow marsh56 to continue to lay red herrings, create strawman arguments and generally talk about everything else but the subject of the thread, Elevation Group and Mike Dillard.

As the saying goes: "He ain't foolin' no one, no how"

Originally Posted by marsh56

Debate is good. More to come.

Gotta say I love this topic!!! Have not been this excited since my uncle scored an advance copy of Hardcastle and McCormick Season 3. We might not agree on the value of what Dillard is offering, but hopefully we can put out enough information that people can make a sound decision.

Originally Posted by marsh56

By the way, Dillard is certainly not alone in predicting the collapse of the US dollar. Anyone who believes that a fiat currency can go on indefinitely is a fool, in my opinion.
Mark

I question if Dillard really believes/understands what he is saying, or is just parroting any number of (OPI) other people's ideas and selling them as if they were his own?

If the dollar was truly going to collapse there would be much more effective ways (IMHO) to protect your family financially than being 90% silver. Frankly that sounds more like a carnival barker than a person in the know spillin the secrets of 1% on the DL.

The physical metal argument presupposes that the world is going to (permanently/or for a long period) move away from electronic commerce to a barter economy. I find this highly unlikely, if it did occur it is (IMO) more likely to be at the hands of hackers than the collapse of the dollar. In this scenario I would much rather have a cache of SPAM and WATER to trade. There were 'BREAD" lines during the Great Depression, not "XMAS CLUB" lines.

America owns both land and natural resources which are in and of themselves hard assets. When you factor in the intellectual and human working capital that the world demands, some other method of payment would develop in short order. By contrast, if you look at the stock markets of Nigeria, Egypt, and Argentina where things are a little hectic at the moment, not so bad. Stocks after all represent fractional ownership of physical and intellectual property. Perhaps the reason broad market indexes have been such an effective protection against inflation over the years?

This is not to say that I don't think we will have PERIODS of inflation, market panics, recession, depression, and all things icky in the future. Certainly people should sensibly prepare themselves as best they can. What I do question if this sort of Henny Penny Dillard Pay to Play, and then pay some more is in most people's interest. I took you up in trying to determine what other services Dillard may have in his "rolodex". So far I have come up with about 5ish things that seem a rehashed buffet of overpriced non-secrets and misdirection ala Charles Givens, Wade Cook, Kevin Trudeau, et. al.

Originally Posted by marsh56

Wow. Some of you appear to have a lot of time on your hands. Must be nice!

Keep the "gurus" paws away from your dosh and one day you might too.

Originally Posted by marsh56

The other option is to borrow against the cash value. The good news is the money does not have to be paid back. Only simple interest is due annually and can be added to the loan as well if it will not cause the policy to lapse. Of course, the death benefit would be reduced by any outstanding loan amount plus interest.Mark

I see we have some more to discuss on the topic, for now I will leave the good people of this blog to decide if they need to "stress test" their polices against a worst case scenario, or just take someone's word that everything will come up cherries.

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"One client with a policy cash value of $1 million borrowed $900,000 and let $900,000 worth of interest compound for 10 years, using dividends or loans to pay the interest. She called and said, 'I just got a 1099 from the IRS for $1.6 million!'" Barnes says.

Although it was what the Internal Revenue Service calls "phantom" income, meaning there was no corresponding cash flow, she was still on the hook for years of borrowing from her own policy.

Are Life Insurance Loans a Bad Idea? | Fox Business

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Potential Pitfalls You'll Want to Avoid
When you take out a loan against your life insurance policy, it's important to understand the consequences. If you don't repay your loan or at least repay the interest on the loan when due it can have an adverse effect on your policy.

Please note that: Loans against a policy must be paid back.

If you die while a loan is outstanding, the amount of the loan, plus any unpaid interest, will be deducted from the death benefit. That means your beneficiaries may not receive the full legacy you intended them to have, and which they might need.

Interest is charged on a policy loan and will be charged for as long as the loan is unpaid. If the annual loan interest is not paid when due, the loan itself will increase annually by the amount of the unpaid interest.

If the policy loan is still outstanding when you surrender your policy or it lapses, the amount of the loan (including interest due) will be considered taxable income to the extent that there is gain in the policy.

If you use Whole Life dividends (which are not guaranteed) that have been set aside to pay premiums in a "POP"("Premium Offset") arrangement to repay a loan or interest on a loan, your "POP"arrangement can be compromised. There may not be enough dividends to continue to cover the premium and repay the loan or interest. If this happens, you may have to pay additional out-of-pocket premiums that you hadn't planned for.

What You Should Know About Policy Loans

Originally Posted by marsh56

A scenario goes like this: a person is 80 years old and is sickly but not terminal. She has a permanent death benefit of $2M and cash surrender value of, say, $200k. She wants money NOW. According to the contract, there are only two options. One is to surrender the policy and get a check for the $200k. However, the death benefit would disappear.

The other option is to borrow against the cash value. The good news is the money does not have to be paid back. Only simple interest is due annually and can be added to the loan as well if it will not cause the policy to lapse. Of course, the death benefit would be reduced by any outstanding loan amount plus interest.

Enter a THIRD option, not that well known, called the Life Settlement. In this case, the policyholder is offered an amount HIGHER than the current cash value paid to her TODAY and in CASH. In turn, she turns ownership over to the company purchasing the contract. It now becomes both the owner and the beneficiary.

The company now has a GUARANTEED equity position. The only "risk" is that the company is now responsible for the monthly premiums. If she outlives her life expectancy, the company's overall return would be less. However, the contracts that are purchased are based on actuarial determinations and life expectancy tends to be very accurate.

Another scenario goes like this: Ponzi-forum fraudsters at MoneyMakerGroup and Talkgold get together and decide they need a product with an impressive-sounding name to dupe the masses. They settle on the name of "Traded Endowment Policies," sometimes called "viatical settlements." The marks get bowled over by the sweet-sounding lexicon. The "program" chooses a regal theme for its name, calling itself "Imperia."

The Ponzi-forum scammers manage to recruit a person who is deaf. This individual recruits thousands of people with hearing impairments into the "program." Millions of dollars are stolen from members of the deaf community, and the money is routed through “Liberty Reserve, located in Costa Rica; Perfect Money, located in Panama; and Procurrex, located in the British Virgin Islands,” according to the SEC.

“Once Imperia received funds from Investors, it appears that Imperia then transferred amounts from these accounts to foreign bank accounts, including but not limited to accounts located in Cyprus and New Zealand,” the SEC says.

The SEC spends years developing the "too good to be true theme." Someone then comes to an antiscam board and argues:

Originally Posted by marsh56

The saying, "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is" is NOT always TRUE! It is more of a mindset. If a person is close minded to certain concepts, then the legitimate opportunities will never present themselves.

Banners Broker preyed on unaccredited investors and tasked them to open their minds. Put another way, they told the little people there was a way they could become "less little." Some of these folks lived in impoverished areas of India.

Here I'll add that, during the period Imperia was scamming deaf people by the thousands, a "program" known as Themco Co-op was operating. Here is how Themco was sold. (Italics added.)

Themco was presented online as a “Co-operative” that “will function in association with an Investment company, a Captive Insurance company, a Reinsurance company, a CatRe ( Catastrophy ) Reinsurance company, a Worldwide Insurance company, a European Insurance company, a Management company, a Hedge Fund, a Trading Company, a Bank, a Trust, a Foundation a Bridging Finance facility and of course a Golf Club.”

Again with the pleasing-sounding lexicon -- with a reference to golf thrown in for good measure.

Themco, by the way, used AlertPay, which morphed into Payza, which ended up processing payments for Banners Broker.

Someone once caused the following message concerning Banners Broker to be sent to the PP Blog -- this while various attempts to chill reporting on Banners Broker were occurring online. (Italics added. Disturbing language.)

" . . . . . . I am Big Bob’s cock meat sandwich. Your mom ate me and made me do press ups until I threw up . . . I am gonna report you. When you make false accusations, you can get done. Maybe you will be seen in court soon . . .”


The business model of Banners Broker was money-laundering, extortion and racketeering. The racketeering part was performed menacingly through exceptionally hostile proxies. It also was performed much more subtly, through the purported "Community Watch" program in which members effectively were instructed to destroy evidence and report people who were not towing the company line. The threat of "account seizures" by the company itself was held over the heads of the members.

The AlertPay enabled AdSurfDaily/AdViewGlobal scammers effectively did the same thing, perhaps even handing Banners Brokers that page from the extortion handbook. Zeek Rewards, which followed both ASD and AVG and was operating at the same time as Banners Broker, then tried to chill "credit unions" that were asking questions about that "program."

PPBlog

I still find it hilarious to pay a known, admitted scammer for access to his 'rolodex' of other scammers.

Originally Posted by Whip

I still find it hilarious to pay a known, admitted scammer for access to his 'rolodex' of other scammers.

Makes sense if ya want a list of people to avoid...!

Originally Posted by marsh56

So PPBlog, is Social Security NOT a legal Ponzi? Where does the money come from except from other participants?

Just what the Zeekers said -- and the ASDers and countless others before them. I do understand that rational people of goodwill might debate whether Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. Regardless, so many scammers use the "Social Security" argument to rationalize outright HYIP frauds that it has become a cliche, a core signature of a scam. The answer to Ponzi schemes is not more Ponzi schemes, and "Social Security" does not give Ponzi schemers a license to steal. Not even Bernard Madoff made that intellectually bereft argument.

Originally Posted by marsh56

Also, you do know that the Federal Reserve Bank is not "federal", has no money in "reserve" and is not a "bank", correct? It is a private corporation. It was never intended to have the power it has today to have fiat currency printed with impunity. Think "fear and greed" and "controlling the masses".

Someone has made this argument in virtually every HYIP scam I've covered. Here is an argument in "support" of the Profitable Sunrise scheme that someone made at the PP Blog before Profitable Sunrise ran off with tens of millions of dollars last year. (Bolding added.)

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Those who would protect any from any scams or ponzi schemes would only be screaming daily of the largest ones perpetuatated upon the American people and to name just a couple, the Federal reserve currency system we are forced to operate within as currency rather than “money” or the Social Security system. I know not of any bigger scam than another such as this is, and the difference is… This one is paying people.

I see on many blogs etc the fact that many persons are stating that they do daily receive funds. Did Bernies scamed get any funds ever? I wrote on Faiths blog also.. Unless you put your money where your mouth is and actually lose your funds. Cease speaking negativly… Unless your desire is to be part of the system in place and lose none of your advantage over the sheep to pad your own currency future.. This is what is right and true. Will you ? Bet not. Test it before you speak. Im now going to just to see.

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Here is another pro-Profitable Sunrise argument -- one that virtually mirrored the arguments of the ASDers five years earlier. (Bolding added.)

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Certainly the Federal Reserver/Rothchild Banking System and the Attorney Generals in all of the States have the best interests of the American People at heart. After all, North Carolina is where Sheriff Andy, Barney Fife and Aunt Bea are from.

We can all rest assured that the banks don’t care that their deposits are going overseas where a company is making us some serious money.

Gee, we should all be sure that the Attorney General of North Carlina knows the differece between a purchasing Securities and a Loan Agreement.

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Here is an argument made on behalf of the JSS/JBP scam in 2012. (Bolding added. Vulgar language.)

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Every business has always been a ponzi, without a new customer, it will collapse. how about the Federal Reserve Printing money out of thin air and charging us compounding interest to make us all their slaves… Some one tries to make a difference and all you have to utter out is scam, scam scam. Go and scam you daddy, let sleeping dogs lie like you when we are here making simple money. What has the government ever done for you rather than stealing the little you have?

However wrote this article is a moroon who sucks his mum’s pussy. Brainless brat. How old are? At times i wonder how IQ’s of certain people operate.

You are a disgrace to humanity, the writer of this article.

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PPBlog

Also, you do know that the Federal Reserve Bank is not "federal", has no money in "reserve" and is not a "bank", correct?

someone is trying to make 'fedman' cry.

Originally Posted by marsh56

Did you know that to this day, applying to pay "income tax" (W-4 form) is "voluntary"? That wording USED TO BE on the actual form. Conveniently it has now disappeared. To my knowledge, the IRS code has not changed, just the form.

In other words, once you agree to be a "taxpayer", you then give the government the right to tax your income. Study the actual code. I did.
Mark

I don't know which one of Dillard's Rolodex contacts told you that. Huck that card in the trash before you are folding Irwin Schiff's shirts in the prison laundry.

The federal income tax is not based on contract or consent, but is an obligation imposed by law. Similarly, Form W-4 is not an “agreement” but a document required by law to be filed with the employer (and not the IRS). And if an employee does not file a Form W-4 with the employer, the consequence is not freedom from tax but tax withholding at the highest possible rate.
Tax Protester FAQ

The "voluntary" one still says voluntary.

W4-V.jpg

I have enjoyed the discussion here with Ribshaw but that's about it. He is the only who seems to enjoy honest debate.

Regarding being "off topic", once again I was not the one to open the door. That was PPBlog. Apparently the same rules do not apply equally.

One other point of clarification and off I go. I am happy to educate and answer any questions regarding the information I share. Otherwise, I do not have time to waste on theories and speculation.

1. Based on the life policies described here, it is NOT required BY CONTRACT to repay policy loans. As long as the policy remains within non-MEC (Modified Endowment Contracts), there would be no tax consequences. Agents are required to explain the contract. However, it is the policyholder's responsibility to make sure they understand contract terms before signing off on it. This is called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. Ask any contract attorney if you do not believe ME.

In addition, many of the carriers have provisions that will not allow a policyholder to get too deeply in debt. Also note that these custom designed policies offer what is known as "non direct recognition loans". This means that the money is loaned directly from the insurance company's general account. Meanwhile, the cash surrender value is not affected and continues to be credited with interest.

For example, the cash balance is $50k. I borrow the full amount from the INSURANCE company and my cash balance remains the same. Generally, I pay them say 5% simple interest while they credit me 4% COMPOUND interest. Most often with these plans, the difference is about 1% but can vary depending on the contract. However there are floors and ceilings in place to protect BOTH parties.

What did I say earlier about sounding too good to be true? I have been in the insurance business for over 35 years and did not know about these plans until I found Dillard's site. Now, as a licensed agent, I can help others with the concept and Dillard does not make a penny. How is that a BAD thing?

This loan option has been available with some companies for over 100 years. What most people--including me--did NOT know is that you can legally OVER FUND a policy within IRS Rule 7702 and have ready cash available for ANY purpose you choose. NO credit check, NO mounds of paperwork, NO income verification.

Had I not learned this from Dillard, I most likely would not have studied this end of the business because I was not aware of it. Since then, I have helped my own family plus dozens of others. Again, how is that a BAD thing?

Honestly I could care less what any of you think about Dillard. You have a right to your opinions as I do. I did not participate in the Forex program that turned out to be a scam because I did my OWN diligence. I do NOT agree with their current gold and silver recommendations. Yet I personally know some people who are doing VERY well with similar strategies right now. It's just not for me.

The bottom line is this one insurance strategy can make a huge difference to individuals and families who currently have assets at risk in the markets. This is a LEGAL way to protect some or all of those assets. For those with college bound students, it is also a LEGAL way to remove assets from the financial aid formulas. And I learned all this from two firms on a Rolodex of someone characterized as a known scammer. Works for me! And for others I have helped as well.

GOOD results can often come from BAD circumstances. It's all about mindset. Did Edison FAIL 1000 times or did he just find 1001 WAYS and MEANS to create the first light bulb?

Mark