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10-04-2014, 05:45 PM
#1451
re: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??
Here's another way to look at it. The network marketing system is the scam. Then, the con artists try to think up a clever idea to utilize that system. I've mentioned before, regardless of the product, if involves recruiting, meetings at hotels, restaurants, and houses, "experienced" MLMERS, its a pay to play, and they dangle the potential for big money or residual income,......RUN!
Picking apart why the product is substandard and exposing the "leaders" and their histories is just the fun part for me.
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10-05-2014, 12:05 PM
#1452
re: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??
Originally Posted by
Char
Here's another way to look at it. The network marketing system is the scam.
I picked the username MLM Broken Model for a reason. Although there some MLM companies that (in my opinion) are legit, most of them are actually pyramid schemes and/or Pay-to-Play money games.
I talked with the owner of a highly successful MLM company and learned a lot about the MLM Model. He confirmed that over 70% of ALL volume with most MLM's companies comes form the initial purchase of the newly recruited distributor! Then, 15-20% of the volume comes from autoship purchases from the distributors who purchase in order to qualify for override commission. The remaining 10-15% comes from actual Retail Customers.
The numbers listed above are for product type MLMs and NOT service plans like Pay2Save, FlexKon, Dubli, Zeek Rewards, Beep Xtra, ACN, etc. These programs offer run on an entirely different model as the top distributors make the majority of their income from recruiting bonuses. I received an email from a serial money-gammer showing his check from one of the companies listed above. The check was for over $7,000 and was money made in his second month. I replied back and asked how much of the $7,000 was earned from "Consumers Using the Service"? His response, "None" because the money came from Recruiting Bonuses and overrides.
The MLM Dilemma:
Product Plans - in order to pay 5-8 upline levels of overrides, retail commissions on sales(if any), company expenses (rent, light bill, employees etc), the price of the product is almost never competitive to the what is available through non-MLM channels.
Service Deals - the products can sometimes be competitvely priced. Because of this slim margin, you will see the Promoters using wild and outlandish numbers to hype the deal.
Example, I just watched a Paid2Save video on youtube which explains their compensation plan. The presenter gave the following example of potential earnings from the APP:
1. You get 20 of your friends to download the APP = 20
2. They each get 20 of their friends to download the APP = 400
3. Who in turn get 20 of their friends to download the APP = 8000
4. They do the same and ALL 8000 of them duplicate and get 20 of their friends to download the APP = 160,000
NOW, if only 20% of them use the APP this month (32,000) and you were to earn just 10 cents each, that would equal $3,200!!! Gee Golly, that's awesome.....right?
So, you need 160,000 people in your network to earn $3,200!!! Are they just naive or stupid or both? Or, do they actually know better and understand that EMOTIALLY BASED GREED sells better than Reason!
Obviously, ONLY A FEW will ever achieve these numbers but that doesn't matter because the SERVICE is actually just a smoke screen anyway. By adding this Free APP the money-gamers can say, "See....it doesn't cost anything to use our service so how can this be illegal?"
THE MLM SOLUTION
Enter the Coded Bonus Program (IE - Pay to Play Model) Distributors are charged a Sign Up Fee and the Company pays out a percentage of this money to motivate and reward their distributors to RECRUIT others who then do the same. A classic example of this type of marketing plan was Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing? Remember them? Breaking News: FTC shuts down Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing (FHTM) as Pyramid Scheme
A (MLM) Skeptic: Breaking News: FTC shuts down Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing (FHTM) as Pyramid Scheme
DISCLAIMER: I am not anti-MLM. I am just anti-Money Game Programs and the people who promote them. In my opinion, here is what to look for in a real MLM biz:
1. The company manufactures 80% of their products. This will save the company about 30 to 40% on the cost of products. This keeps the price of the product competitive on a retail basis and still leaves room to pay upline overrides and bonuses.
2. There is little to NO cost to become a distributor. They might charge a small fee for the Distributor Kit ($30 for example) but this is NOT commissionable.
3. The compensation plan requires and rewards Retail Sales to Customers who are not also Distributors.
4. The company offers a Money Back Guarantee on their products.
Ask yourself this question: "Would I buy this product or service at this price if their was no financial incentive involved?" If the answer is yes, congratulations....proceed with your due diligence. If the answer is no, run....don't walk....and never look back. You will save your money and credibility with your friends and family in the process.
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10-05-2014, 03:39 PM
#1453
re: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??
Originally Posted by
MLM Broken Model
Ask yourself this question: "Would I buy this product or service at this price if their was no financial incentive involved?" If the answer is yes, congratulations....proceed with your due diligence. If the answer is no, run....don't walk....and never look back. You will save your money and credibility with your friends and family in the process.
Great post MLMBM. Hope you don't mind me adding on.......
Ask yourself these questions:
Would I SELL a product or service if I'm expected to retail 51% to collect the financial incentive offered?
Do I want to be a salesman forever and ever?
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10-05-2014, 04:05 PM
#1454
re: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??
Originally Posted by
Char
Great post MLMBM. Hope you don't mind me adding on.......
Ask yourself these questions:
Would I SELL a product or service if I'm expected to retail 51% to collect the financial incentive offered?
Do I want to be a salesman forever and ever?
with other 'salesmen' in your backyard.
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10-06-2014, 09:37 AM
#1455
re: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??
Originally Posted by
MLM Broken Model
Example, I just watched a Paid2Save video on youtube which explains their compensation plan. The presenter gave the following example of potential earnings from the APP:
1. You get 20 of your friends to download the APP = 20
2. They each get 20 of their friends to download the APP = 400
3. Who in turn get 20 of their friends to download the APP = 8000
4. They do the same and ALL 8000 of them duplicate and get 20 of their friends to download the APP = 160,000
NOW, if only 20% of them use the APP this month (32,000) and you were to earn just 10 cents each, that would equal $3,200!!! Gee Golly, that's awesome.....right?
So, you need 160,000 people in your network to earn $3,200!!! Are they just naive or stupid or both? Or, do they actually know better and understand that EMOTIALLY BASED GREED sells better than Reason!
I am left wondering in what world a network of 160,000 people could somehow end up being passive? Even if FK, P2S, Lyonnless could execute as promised all the time I don't see how that size alone is not a full time gig with multiple levels of support staff. Bye bye pretend $3200.
Which is the second problem that every MLM faces, where do all the people come from so everyone can have their 160K network?
These deals would never work if people actually stopped to reason out that their role in the pyramid is simply a "source of funds" for the very few at the top. NWM companies pointing to one or two people who allegedly are making six figures is no different than the lotteries splashing a winner's photo holding a big check.
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10-06-2014, 09:50 AM
#1456
re: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??
Ok, I give up. Apparently I am trying to make a point that nobody sees or is willing to discuss. I feel like I am speaking to you in Chinese or something.
Scammers are like zombies. They lack empathy and the kind of human feelings that make life liveable
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10-06-2014, 10:06 AM
#1457
re: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??
Originally Posted by
Scamtracker-Jaap
Ok, I give up. Apparently I am trying to make a point that nobody sees or is willing to discuss. I feel like I am speaking to you in Chinese or something.
STJ - let's try it again but this time....type a bit slower as some of us are a bit slow in the morning.
What a tried to do was to judge the merits of the Flexkom concept, independent from the fact that Flexkom is a scam. That concept is attractive to many people, and Flexkom was right to see a market and a real need there. But how attractive the idea might be at first glance, it can not work for the lack of uniformity in bookkeeping systems of small shops.
I am happy to address this part of your recent post. You say the concept is attractive to many people. Who? Other than the pyramid promoters, who would benefit from the Flexkom Platform? I might have missed something and would be glad to offer up my 2 cents. Thanks.
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10-06-2014, 10:08 AM
#1458
re: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??
I don't know why you are giving up, Scamtracker.
Nobody is disagreeing with you.
You are talking "concept" and others are talking "content"
It goes without saying that the "concept" is appealing to many.
That's is precisely why Flexkon has managed to remain in existence for as long as it has.
Its' "concept" DOES appeal to many, especially the small business owners it is targetting
In fact, the #1 responsibility of any half decent fraud / fraudster is to come up with a "concept" which appeals to as many people as possible, while keeping the "content" as hidden as is possible.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
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10-06-2014, 10:10 AM
#1459
re: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??
Originally Posted by
Scamtracker-Jaap
Ok, I give up. Apparently I am trying to make a point that nobody sees or is willing to discuss. I feel like I am speaking to you in Chinese or something.
Please reitterate your point SJ. Maybe we just missed it. Sorry.
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10-06-2014, 10:23 AM
#1460
re: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??
Originally Posted by
Scamtracker-Jaap
Ok, I give up. Apparently I am trying to make a point that nobody sees or is willing to discuss. I feel like I am speaking to you in Chinese or something.
Nah, everyone goes at things a little differently.
Originally Posted by
Scamtracker-Jaap
But with a high nr of transactions, the shopkeeper would need automation to keep track of them. Because he has to register them in his bookkeeping. And there is NO integration of the FK terminal with his regular bookkeeping system.
This was a valid point. Part of the problem other than being 4 years in with nothing to show is a lot of the "leaders" in deals like FK are not really business people, but serial promoters. I suspect this is why four or five have come and gone, with Zaneo being the latest. The "pitch" sounds great, the execution designed to fail, brand partners will walk away with their losses thinking it was a great idea but...
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10-08-2014, 07:55 PM
#1461
re: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??
Originally Posted by
ribshaw
Nah, everyone goes at things a little differently.
This was a valid point. Part of the problem other than being 4 years in with nothing to show is a lot of the "leaders" in deals like FK are not really business people, but serial promoters. I suspect this is why four or five have come and gone, with Zaneo being the latest. The "pitch" sounds great, the execution designed to fail, brand partners will walk away with their losses thinking it was a great idea but...
As usual, I have to agree with Ribshaw's logic here in his last two posts.
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10-10-2014, 10:02 AM
#1462
re: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??
Thank you guys for answering. I felt neglected a little. I don't know if all the MLM scams have these wonderfull and convincing concepts. Flexkom is only the first scam that I sank my teeth in. It made me wonder that all these people remained convinced of the concept, even after they discovered it was a scam. Is that usual? I guess it means that they fundamentally don't understand the 'business' that they are in. IMHO an honest MLM business is an exception.
In the meantime Flexkom netherlands is now offically dead. The CM has left, closed his office and the Flexkom webpage, and all that is left are two or three orphaned Flexkom believers. This success is mainly due to a good anti Flexkom website: WouterHol.nl
It strikes me that in all countries where they can read and write English, Flexkom is dead or dying. This is the case in the UK, the USA, Canada, Australia, the Netherlands, Flanders (in contrast to french speaking Belgium!) and all of Scandinavia. That is because practically all critical info about Flexkom is in English. In countries where they are not accustomed to read English, Flexkom is still going strong. For example in Italy, France, Eastern Europe, and all spanish speaking countries. There, hardly any critical info is available to them, and they can not or will not read the english sites. Thus they are isolated and not aware of what happened with Flexkom in the rest of the world.
Isolation is Flexkom's best friend. They always want to have their sheeple as isolated as possible. That is why the Flexkom flock is warned not to let themselves in with 'negativity' from people outside Flexkom. When they obey, and obey they do, they shut themselves out of any critical source of information. They are like the average Russian, who believes that Russia is fighting a defensive action in the Ukraine. Because they get their information form one source and one source only. And that is straight from the scammers mouth.
It also is a quick way to recognise if somebody has been brainwashed or not. As soon as they start talking about 'negativity', you know that they have been brainwashed. Usually they will say something like: I am not going to let your negativity slow me down on my road to succes. Frequently they will almost literally ape what their leaders tell them.
The best way to free people from the claws of the Flexkom vampires is to break the isolation. To break the Flexkom spell that they are under. It is the same method by wich people who are entangled in agressive cults are freed. First break the isolation, then gradually push and pull them back in to the real world.
So I would like to set up a list of all the critical Flexkom sources and media. In English, but especially in other languages. Would you please help me complete it? Here beneath I will place the list that I have made. I will also attach it as a PDF document. So you can pass it on. List of critical sources on Flexkom.pdf
List of critical info sources on Flexkom:
in English:
http://www.realscam.com/f8/flexkom-a...mlm-scam-1862/
Flexkom Scam Turkey - Germany & the Netherlands : Scams
Ripoff Report | FlexKom Complaint Review Nationwide: 1096436
Is FlexKom A Scam?
Get the Facts before Buying a Business Opportunity | Consumer Information
Is FlexKom a Scam? ğ Lazy Man and Money
ğ FlexKom Review Are They Really This Stupid?StupidityisContagious.com
A (MLM) Skeptic: Scam Absurdities: Ian Driscoll of BannersBroker ponzi now pushing FlexKom. Leopard Still Can't Change His Spots.
is flexkom.com a scam or legit | flexkom.com reviews |check flexkom.com for fraud and risk | is flexkom safe or fake
flexkom scam | Online Company Review - Working From Home 2014
FlexKom America Scam Reviewed and Verified | Official Blog for FlexKom Fraud Prevention
flexkom-is-a-SCAM
http://flexkomscam.yolasite.com/iandriscoll-scammer.php
'MLM' The American Dream Made Nightmare: 'Lyoness' and its copy-cat, 'FlexKom,' have exhibited the universal characteristics of a cult.
FlexKom America, Inc. Reviews - Scamorg.com
Flexkomedy Exposed | Exposing the scam of FlexKomedy
flexkomfraud | 4 out of 5 dentists recommend this WordPress.com site
Andrew Penman: Is FlexKom REALLY 'the future of business' or just another hopeless 'get rich quick' scheme? - Andrew Penman - Mirror Online
Facebook pages:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Flexk...53709781338460
https://www.facebook.com/Flexshit
https://www.facebook.com/Flexkomedy.Expose
https://www.facebook.com/cashbackappsgeorgia
In French (en Français):
FlexKom : Avis et Témoignage
Mon avis sur Flexkom, arnaque ou réelle opportunité ?
in German (in Deutsch)
Cafe4eck - Recherchen - Fakten - News - Tipps: FlexKom - Cengiz Ehliz und die Network-Karriere mit Bernd Seitz als (Zensiert) für Deutschland - Seitz und Mattis Werbeagentur GmbH
In Italian (en Italiano)
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Flexk...19407898315520
Guadagnare Online con FlexKom (FlexCom): Truffa o Realtà?
Contro la truffa: Certificazione siti
In Dutch (in het Nederlands)
Wouter Hol
MLM Forum
Schaapswrak, pipoïstische zweminstructies: Een mooi aanbod van Flexkom Nederland
In Spanish (en Espagnol)
??
Scammers are like zombies. They lack empathy and the kind of human feelings that make life liveable
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10-10-2014, 06:16 PM
#1463
re: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??
Excellent research STJ! The Flexkon Train has almost come to a stop here in the USA. Funny part is there were never any tracks laid down as the entire concept was flawed from the start. There was no chance of getting to their final destination of signing up tens of thousands of local merchants and millions of customers onto their platform. NO CHANCE OF SUCCESS! The entire concept went against basic human nature. They needed tens of thousands of local merchants and millions on customers to compete with the companies already in that space. And now with Apple bringing their iPay System and 800 Million existing CC customers to the game, nobody has a chance to beat them. How can any MLM deal compete with 800 MILLION EXISTING CUSTOMERS that have already done business with Apple. And, Apple has all of their account information already on file. That is why AAPL trades at $100 per share with a Market Cap of 600 BILLION DOLLARS.
Flexkom, with the help of Karl Roller, came to the USA with stories about their incredible success in Europe. We now know that was an out-and-out lie. But they had one thing going for them. Their target audience were MLM'ers. And with MOST of them, if you wave enough money in their face, they will fall for and do pretty much anything.
The same folks are now pushing Pay2Save, Dubli, Wor(l) Financial Group, Beep Xtra and a few other money games.
Some things (and people) never change.
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10-10-2014, 07:28 PM
#1464
re: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??
Originally Posted by
Scamtracker-Jaap
It made me wonder that all these people remained convinced of the concept, even after they discovered it was a scam. Is that usual?
This is one of the things that fascinates me the most about scams. Even in cases where it is cut and dry, the authorities have moved in, the scammer thrown in jail, you will find a few people that believe.
Rumbling in the back of my head on the other side of that is what makes scam leaders appealing to the people who get involved?
People like Simon Stepsys who are so wrong about everything they claim is business, why do people continue to follow and lose money? He posts a cutesy quote and his toadies just purr and coo while he robs them blind. I would get the dynamic if this was high school, but these are adults supposed to be building a residual income.
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10-10-2014, 07:49 PM
#1465
re: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??
Originally Posted by
Scamtracker-Jaap
It made me wonder that all these people remained convinced of the concept, even after they discovered it was a scam. Is that usual?
You partially answered your own question later in the same post when you said:
Originally Posted by
Scamtracker-Jaap
It also is a quick way to recognise if somebody has been brainwashed or not. As soon as they start talking about 'negativity', you know that they have been brainwashed.
Once a person has accepted that "think positive" is a rule, rather than a general guide and should be applied to any and all circumstances, they then become the perfect victim for fraud and fraudsters.
Positivity is a wonderful attribute.
Without balance it becomes a recipe for disaster.
You can be as positive as you like that climbing Mount Everest in the middle of winter in your underpants is a good idea, but it ain't.
Likewise, you can be positive that returns of 1% a day for clicking on ads are possible - but they aren't.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
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10-11-2014, 07:59 AM
#1466
re: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??
IMHO an
honest MLM business is an exception
Would "honest MLM" be an oxymoron or paradox? I'm always confusing those two.
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10-11-2014, 11:26 AM
#1467
re: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??
Originally Posted by
Char
Would "honest MLM" be an oxymoron or paradox? I'm always confusing those two.
There are honest people working legit MLM programs. Absolutely. But that is not the purpose of this site and message board, hense the name REALSCAM.com
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10-12-2014, 04:51 PM
#1468
re: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??
Originally Posted by
Scamtracker-Jaap
Ok, I give up. Apparently I am trying to make a point that nobody sees or is willing to discuss. I feel like I am speaking to you in Chinese or something.
It's not Chinese. I speak Chinese. ;)
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10-13-2014, 06:01 PM
#1469
re: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??
The FB site https://www.facebook.com/Flexshit has found some ammunition to prove that Flexkom is a scam. I will copy paste the content:
I present you a nice proof for the fact that Flexkom is a scam. The site performance-vertraulich.de is posing as a magazine about the economy. It has news about Flexkom, among other items. They claim to have written four articles about Flexkom since februari 2014. These articles are disguised as serious journalism, and they are very positive about Flexkom. But Google cache betrays that this entire site was empty until 4 days ago! And that happens to coincide exactly with the day that the last article about Flexkom was placed. How convenient! So this so called magazine is nothing more then a lousy attempt to fool people and let them believe that serious journalists are positive about Flexkom. Caught redhanded!
Behind this shabby magazine is a certain Siana Petrova from Starnberg, a town near Munich. Straight from snake Cengiz his lair, so to speak. She will undoubtably be rewarded several agents licence fees for her Judas work.
Addendum: according to her own FB page, she is the girlfriend of Cengiz Ehliz!
Scammers are like zombies. They lack empathy and the kind of human feelings that make life liveable
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10-13-2014, 10:12 PM
#1470
re: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??
Originally Posted by
kschang
It's not Chinese. I speak Chinese. ;)
You meant you speak mandarin ;)
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10-14-2014, 12:09 PM
#1471
re: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
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10-15-2014, 09:05 AM
#1472
re: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??
The reload scammer behind Rechtsraad.nl, Bram Hulsebos, has decided to quit:
Rechtsraad-endClassAction.jpg
Scammers are like zombies. They lack empathy and the kind of human feelings that make life liveable
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10-15-2014, 10:12 AM
#1473
re: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??
In case Scamtrackers' image is too small for some readers:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
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10-21-2014, 02:53 PM
#1474
re: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??
Somebody please explain to me what is wrong with this picture?
Here is what was posted on two social media pages yesterday:
#1. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Flexk...53709781338460
CENGİZ EHLİZ, DAVUT TÜRKOĞLU, ASKER SAKINMAZ CRİMİNAL DOCUMENT İN TURKEY....
TRANSLATE ENGLİSH :
Mustafa Tilki, citizen of Osmaniye who works as a security guard filed a lawsuit in court against Erol Pakel, a manager of Flexkom, for fraud and Erol Pakel was sentenced to one year.
In the first instance, the 5th Criminal Court of Ankara decided that the manager of FlexKom, Erol Pakel, has created a damage of 3600 Turkish Lira for Mr. Mustafa Tilki. Mr. Pakel had expressed to the victimized Mr. Tilki the statement that as soon as he is a member he will receive a membership card, which allows him to do shopping on the Internet and that he can achieve premiums at the same time. And, among others he offered Mr. Tilki a job as a distributor.
Erol Pakel was sentenced by the 5th Criminal Court of Ankara to imprisonment of one year. Furthermore the 5th Criminal Court of Ankara sued the Flexkom Mangers Cengiz Ehliz, Asker Sakinmaz, Davut Türkoglu and all other leaders for fraud.
In the process against the FlexKom managers, the criminal sentences are calculated according to the number of victims, insofar as they are convicted as defrauders.
In the event of conviction, thousands of victims will be filing compensation claims against the company FlexKom.
#2. https://www.facebook.com/mike.livingston.54738?fref=ts
My show, "FlexKom Next Level Team Leadership" on "FK Next Level" is airing 10/24/2014 on BlogTalkRadio.
So, on one site (#1) there is information about the lawsuit in Turkey going against Erol Pakel who was one of the leaders there for Flexkom. On the next site (#2) we have Mike Livingston invited his FB friends to attend the Next Level webinar promoting Flexkom.
What am I missing here? Surely Mike is aware of the horrific loss of funds by these poor naive investors in Turkey? The information about the prison sentence for Erol Pakel (a manager with FK) appears to be accurate. Yet he is willing to "risk it all" for what?
I don't see this ending well for the Flexkom promoters and leaders.
Last edited by MLM Broken Model; 10-21-2014 at 03:12 PM.
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10-22-2014, 08:36 AM
#1475
re: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??
Originally Posted by
MLM Broken Model
Somebody please explain to me what is wrong with this picture?
#2.
https://www.facebook.com/mike.livingston.54738?fref=ts
My show, "FlexKom Next Level Team Leadership" on "FK Next Level" is airing 10/24/2014 on BlogTalkRadio.
So, on one site (#1) there is information about the lawsuit in Turkey going against Erol Pakel who was one of the leaders there for Flexkom. On the next site (#2) we have Mike Livingston invited his FB friends to attend the Next Level webinar promoting Flexkom.
What am I missing here? Surely Mike is aware of the horrific loss of funds by these poor naive investors in Turkey?
Oh that's easy. Mike is a network marketer.
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