Thread: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??

Originally Posted by MLM Broken Model

Thanks Beacon/EagleOne for the info.

I am still not sure whether or not the 51% rule you refer to applies to EVERY distributor. It appears everything you have listed refers to the
Company average. So, if Distributor A has 25% retail customer income and Distributor B has 76% retail customer income, the two would average better than 50% of their income from Retail Customer income. However, do either of you have any examples where the FTC took issue with a SINGLE distributor and their percentage of retail sales being below 51%?

Bottom line: I thought the 51% Rule applied ONLY to the company overall and not to EACH distributor.

Let us examine Eagleone's reference
Multilevel Marketing | Consumer Information

If the money you make is based on the number of people you recruit and your sales to them, it’s not [legitimate]. It's a pyramid scheme.

In the above case you assume A and B have exactly the same sales /commissions total. But even then A is operating an illegal scheme but B isn't. the company that A and B work for is also liable if it is aware A is operating at 25% sales even if the company also has C through Z and only A is operating a pyramid.

don't forget each state has additional laws and so does each EU country but let us examine the EU directive

a consumer gives consideration for the opportunity to receive compensation that is derived primarily from the introduction of other consumers into the scheme rather than from the sale or consumption of products.

Here the emphasis is on the person joining. If anyone joins a system whereby they pay money to join and they get money from later joiners rather than selling anything then they are in a pyramid. They are liable and the entity of individuals operating the scheme are liable.

In the EU member states are obliged to legislate for EU decisions ~ called "secondary law".


https://webgate.ec.europa.eu/ucp/
is a comprehensive and user friendly instrument which gathers and gives public access to national laws transposing the Directive, jurisprudence, administrative decisions, references to related legal literature and other relevant materials. It makes it possible to compare decisions and national case-law of the Member States.
Here are the UK adoptions:
Name Adoption date In Force date
The Business Protection from Misleading Marketing (Amendment) Regulations 2013 23/10/2013 14/11/2013
The Business Protection from Misleading Marketing Regulations 2008 (SI 2008/1276) 08/05/2008 26/05/2008
The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 13/12/2013 13/06/2014
The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (SI 2008/1277) 08/05/2008 26/05/2008

So far in relation to section 14 there have been three court rulings

In Austria
https://webgate.ec.europa.eu/ucp/pub...24#article_232
Does the practice of offering reductions for consumers who recruit new customers for the trader, constitute a promotion of a pyramid scheme in view of Annex I-14 and § 27 UWG?

The defendant, a life assurances seller, sold its products by advertising towards its customers that they could receive premium reductions in case that they would recruit new customers using the product for a certain time. The amount of the reduction depended on the number and levels of new clients.

The plaintiff claimed that such advertising was in breach of Annex I-14 and § 27 of the Austrian Unfair Competition Act (UWG), both prohibiting pyramid schemes.

According to the definition in § 27 UWG, a pyramid scheme requires an unconditional obligation of the customer on the one hand and a conditional obligation of the trader on the other hand. According to the court, this was not the case here, as the obligations of the defendant were only based on the contract with the insurance holder.

What that to me seems to say is you can sell insurance and encourage the person to which you are selling insurance to recruit others into your policies by offering them lower policy rates to recruit. But the insurance company is only making the deal with one guy and the people he recruits. He isn't getting kickbacks for his entire downline just for the people he immediately refers. If he only referred one person and his policy was half the original rate then he might be in a problem. But if he referred ten people for the same price and they company gave him free insurance then he is only being compensated 10% of the money coming into the scheme. It seems the insurance company did not offer the same conditions to the downline that they offered to the defendant because " this was not the case here, as the obligations of the defendant were only based on the contract with the insurance holder." They didn't offer the same obligatory condition to others.

Insurance companies usually are not pyramid schemes. In any case they pay claims based on specific conditions in a policy and they don't just pay out as money comes in from later subscribers if that was a condition in any policy it would be illegal.


They usually have professionally qualified staff such as actuaries and accountants and meet a whole host of other compliance and regulatory requirements. Pyramid schemes tend to be touted by people with scant qualifications no business background or experience and there is usually no evidence of a properly run and properly registered company with permanent offices.

Originally Posted by Beacon

So far in relation to section 14 there have been three court rulings

In Austria

Didnt mention the other two Estonia and Belgium. the Estonian example is a clear pyramid.

The defendant set up advertisements of a pyramid scheme on billboards across the city of Tallinn. The advertisement included the following text: “Sergei-Mavrodi.com. A gift of EUR 15 for registering. WARNING! Pyramid schemes are dangerous for your financial health! Information 590 277 46; justmmm2011@gmail.com”
The advertisement in question referred to a website with URL sergey-mavrodi.com, where an offer was made to the consumers to participate in a pyramid scheme for the purposes of earning money.
On 7 November 2011, a representative of the Consumer Protection Board called the phone number indicated in the advertisement and acted as a consumer wishing to participate in the scheme. The representative of the defendant confirmed that the scheme was indeed a pyramid scheme, although a completely legal and credible one. In addition, the representative claimed the scheme already had attracted almost 1000 members.
Subsequently, the Consumer Protection Board issued a precept to OÜ Deksim Trade, in which it referred to the unlawfulness of OÜ Deksim Trades’ practice and required it to cease the misleading practice.
In a short reasoning, the Board reminded that establishing, operating or promoting a promotional scheme whereby a consumer is able to receive compensation that is derived primarily from the introduction of other consumers into the scheme rather than from the sale or consumption of products (pyramid promotional scheme), constitutes a misleading commercial practice in all circumstances and is therefore always prohibited.
Next, the Board overruled the claims of the defendant regarding the lawfulness of its pyramid scheme.

Originally Posted by Fat City, LA

US Flexscammers getting nervous.Lucky they have a Christian company to fall back on!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

Originally Posted by Fat City

Also, Corporate office gone? Working out of the TN reps home office soon?

https://www.facebook.com/cashbackapp...75451612661882

Paragraph 4 in AJ Krause's email is classic!

Translation:
Get ready for the next big thing which is still a secret until he secures his position. In the mean time, be grateful for the learning experience in the scam of Flexkom that he exposed you to, and say prayers that, in this next scam, you will all get rich off friends and family because that's so very Christian like and what God wants you to do. This next opportunity, unlike the several others that he's no longer with (so much for residual) will provide for your financial future. You can trust his judgement this time. He references himself as a "leader". A leader of what exactly? Think about it.

Originally Posted by EagleOne

It has to be each representative as there is no way a company as a whole could meet this requirement. it is also why the MLM companies never provide their retail sales figures in their reports.

So you have to do more than "Buy from yourself and teach others to do the same"?

Originally Posted by flexscammer jackass

While I can not answer this for everyone, I believe we should wait and hear what our recent ex-CEO has to say in his speaking tour throughout the United States next week

Why? by your own terms, he's a 'naysayer' now. Why would he 'tour' the US? He's done with you.

Originally Posted by another flexscammer jackass

Remember last night's post about the imminent demise of FlexKom America? I was a damned prophet and didn't know it.

Guess that makes us gods doesn't it.

Here is the September Newsletter. Looks like there is yet another "opportunity" to advance and give Flexcom your money. Imagine the possibility of making €32,000 A MONTH according to the numbers from Slovenia!

http://media.flexkom.com/_stuff/1411...4_en_final.pdf

Would YOU buy a used car from one of these guys ???

[QUOTE=littleroundman;76414]Would YOU buy a used car from one of these guys ???

What is it with the "thumbs up"?
They want to look so professional, but it strikes me as quite odd.

I post this article purely to demonstrate two points:

- A scam does not have to be sophisticated to take people in. This was a group of middle-aged women operating from their residential domestic lounge. I would have thought anyone could see through it, but evidently not. So what does that say for more sophisticated, better disguised operations?

- It shows how long it takes, and how much effort it takes, for government agencies to detect, identify, bring a prosecution _and_ a conviction against such schemes. So again, what does that say for more disguised operations?

Imagine you run a police department, with a limited budget. You can solve 2 murder cases, or you can hire a forensic accountant to dig into a company which may be a scam, or may be just a badly run business. Where do you allocate your detectives?

The 'Key to a Fortune' pyramid scheme queens who conned 10,000 out of their savings - Crime - UK - The Independent

[QUOTE=Stewart;76439]

Originally Posted by littleroundman

Would YOU buy a used car from one of these guys ???

What is it with the "thumbs up"?
They want to look so professional, but it strikes me as quite odd.

If you think that is odd, what do you think about this picture? Officially titled: The Flexkom board of Dutch leader speakers.Flexkom dutch leaders.jpg

Originally Posted by littleroundman

Would YOU buy a used car from one of these guys ???

Look at those hideous plastic smiles! Their lying eyes!. It has been a while that a saw a picture with such a high scumbag density.

Originally Posted by Stewart

Originally Posted by littleroundman

Would YOU buy a used car from one of these guys ???

What is it with the "thumbs up"?
They want to look so professional, but it strikes me as quite odd.

Because simon septic © the stupid pointy finger thing?

Originally Posted by Stewart

What is it with the "thumbs up"?
They want to look so professional, but it strikes me as quite odd.

I think it helps with the lying. That way the Flexkom snakes don't have to pay attention to their body language, and can concentrate on their facial expression. Quite clever really. Aren't there any paralels in other scams?

The so called class action lawsuit against Flexkom, via flexkom EU class action, is fake! Rechtsraad is a fake company, a façade only and empty hull just like Flexkom itself. For more info see https://www.facebook.com/Flexshit?ref=hl

Originally Posted by Scamtracker-Jaap

The so called class action lawsuit against Flexkom, via flexkom EU class action, is fake! Rechtsraad is a fake company, a façade only and empty hull just like Flexkom itself. For more info see https://www.facebook.com/Flexshit?ref=hl

That's a good catch, it reads like they were running a reload scam promising to get people their money back, if only they spend a little more first.

A couple of recently awoken dutch ex-Flexkom agents have opened up on their experiences in Flexkom. I have translated their story into English. Definately worth reading, although quite long. The original text you can find on Wouterhol.nl here: http://wouterhol.nl/het-piramidespel...#comment-16123

And here is the translated text:
https://www.facebook.com/Flexshit?ref=tn_tnmn

Originally Posted by Scamtracker-Jaap

A couple of recently awoken dutch ex-Flexkom agents have opened up on their experiences in Flexkom. I have translated their story into English. Definately worth reading, although quite long. The original text you can find on Wouterhol.nl here: Wouter Hol – Het piramidespel van Flexkom?

And here is the translated text:
https://www.facebook.com/Flexshit?ref=tn_tnmn

Thank you for finding this and translating it into English for us. It is greatly appreciated.

Seems these sheeple are busy looking for "Plan B" without realizing WHY they picked plan A in the first place (i.e. how they could have been so wrong). Instead, they're just picking MOTS (more of the same).

One mindset that is concerning is that some people (nobody in particular) think the company and it's product simply had issues or it was a failed idea. WRONG!!!

FLEXKOM like BB was concocted to steal your money FROM THE BEGINNING. None of it was EVER real.

The rumor is Bill Resides is getting a monthly salary to "stay in the game" Can anyone confirm? I know they have done this (hired-gun) in the past.
I agree, the Flexkom model was ALWAYS broken. I doubt we EVER see Watsco again. I wonder if he is one of the hundreds of Investors/Promoters who finally saw
the light and moved on?

I also heard that he is getting 3000 dollar a week for his lying. A nice compensation, but it will never be enough to make good the damage to his soul.
I agree with Char: These newly awoken Flexers still don't realise to the full extent that Flexkom was a scam from the beginning. That is probalbly to hard a truth to digest for now. Flexkom enlightenment comes in phases I think. With the passing of (a bit) more time, most Flexers will be able to admit that they have been scammed. Once the first step is taken, and that is to cut the ties with flexkom and to step out the cult, the realisation of the full truth is quick to follow. Then they become overwhelmed with shame, and that makes them lay low for months, if not years. That's enough time for the Flexkom snakes to clean up and leave without a trace.

A statement of Herr Rudi Engelsberger, CEO of Flexkom. He moans a little about the opposition that Flexkom encounters on the internet. And is concerned his sheeple will be distracted by it. So he explains that it's only jealousy from competitors who envy Flexkom's 'huge success', and frustrated exflex people, that did not put in the work to succeed. That's the usual BS. New and pretty original however is that he claims that two Country Managers (CM) were actually scammers. They have scammed their own agents and took of with the money. That is why in some countries there are so many disappointed Flexkom agents. It has nothing to do with Flexkom, it's the CM's, stupid!
It might even be true. A lot of these CM's are quite shady characters. But it is more likely that this is just another lie. And a clever one too, because like this they are sowing division between the CM's and the sheeple. It is a classic example of Divide and Rule! And of course they take an advance shot at the Big Flexkom Failure Explanation, that is due anytime now. It was the CM's who did it!

Anyway, here is the statement, complete with typo's and all:

Dear FlexCom Partner, Kreuzlingen, 2014/09/25

In the last few days there have been several emails and links to dubious internet sites received from our partners with desperate tries, to lead those FlexCom sales partners away from their path of success. Partially there are other companies initiating illicit unfair poachings through this channel. I am confident, that you will form your own opinion concerning all your decisions and assessments, and won’t be influenced seriously by those kind of attempts.
But to help you handling those kind of affairs in the future even more confident, I thereby permit myself to give an official statement in my role as the CEO of FlexKom. This statement includes my own personal opinion which I of course stand behind completely.
The initial position
Principally it is to state that even though the internet has a lot of positive oportunities it also helped developing an incredible legal vacuum. Everybody can spread here without any judical relevance,unrestrained by law, rumours and lies about every other person. Even pictures will be published by the operators without the written consent oft he affected persons.
Especially in the chat rooms operated by competitors of the company those machination will be tolerated by most of the providers like Google, Twitter or Facebook under the supposedly right of „free speech“ and even promoted. Sometimes one feels reminded in such phases of the incredible sad times of world history with „burning of witches caused by anonymous defamations“ in the Middle-Ages or the systematical intrigues and malicious campaigns of political groups or whole state-regimes of the modern times.
Legal decisions like the obligation for removal of links from citizens oft he EU- Area in the case of Google shows those problematic developments. In printed media there is the term of an account from an opposing point of view, which hasn’t been used for the Internet so far.
The dubious machination
In the concrete case of our company some former sales partners spend their time spreading rumours. These people belong mostly from these three groups.
The members of the first group are mostly disappointed with the sucess of the FlexCom System. When a sales partner doesn’t achieve the desired results this is very regrettable for us as a company. Because we too would increase our success through the success of this sales partner.
Maybe this sales partner just set the wrong priorities or used the wrong activities for the realization of the business model. That does not make a sales partner a loser, but in entrepreneurship one has to learn from the experiences and initiate mprovements..And from time to time one has to realize after a time of induction phase that the necesarry work process is not so much fun after all. It is only sad if in that case one doesn’t draw a clean final stroke and uses those experiences for another career option, to be sucessful maybe in another field.
The second group consists mainly of people who have shown a certain „roller-coaster effect“ in the past already. In the beginning they are extremely motivated, but at some point the disillusion starts, that even with FlexCom hard and consequent work is the cause of success. Yes it is true „ success is a matter of cause and effect“. Those people have often either not worked consequently enough or stayed in their personal comfort zone after their registration as a partner. Now they often ask themselves why their hasn’t been any success even though they haven’t acted enough. In this case it is of course better fort he own self-esteem, to dump the responsibility on the company, at best in a very loud manner. If people would have just shown the same dedication to their actions in the company.
The persons who create the third group have often shown a very different idea of ethical faultless behavior with the sales partners. Often we have discovered those dubious and ethical reprehensible machinations and consequently parted with those persons, sometimes even without previous notice.
Two prominent cases should on this occasion serve as an example. I will refrain from a namely mention to enable them to stop those defamation:
There was one person in the special position of a country manager who has received for months the special allowances (Country-Manager Bonus) , payed for by FlexCom, which should be used for the building up of a country, without using that money by the majority for the support of the sales partner in this country. When this Country Manger moved to another country he gave up the position in his original country, but hasn’t made the money available for his successor, as expected, but used it for himself. He left his successor out in the rain and tried to replicate this process in a new country. As we also got at that time, parallel to those events some documented information about poaching attempts by another company we had to initiate for the protection of our employees the instant dismissal.
Another person with the special position of a Country-Manager has for months let new employees pay their licence payments on the account of said Country Manager. As those payments have not been received by FlexCom, the licences for those partners haven’t been activated, which led to an immense damage for those persons. Only by some detours have we heard about that problem quite recently, and have offered our sales partners our support and an unproblematic solution for their licences.
Of course that sort of behavior resulted in an instant dismissal. Here have been to the best of my knowledge already some criminal complaints been initiated. I wish that those sales partners can assert their rights and that deceptive person will be prosecuted with the full rigour of the legistlation.
Both of those persons now try to justify their behavior with the support of their helpers through the invention and publication of untruths.
FlexCom has like every other company collected experiences during the start-up phase and had to solve surprising challenges. But this has been also the case with all big concerns like Amazon, Microsoft or similar companys. Even one of the most successful entrepreneurs in the world, Sir Richard Branson has collected experiences, if necessary adapted strategies and if unavoidable stopped certain processes. Even so this person is a role model for a whole generation of managers. Please do not see those comments of mine as a general cash up with critics, I just wanted to take a clear side once, as you should never allow that those rumours and persons hinder you in the achievement of your goals.
A special comment for the end:
I am confident, that even without my consent this statement of mine will be available on the Internet soon. That is why I want to direct my last words directly at the previously described group of people who concentrate mostly anonymously on the confusion of potentially successful partners of FlexCom to distract from their own failure.
At the same time I hereby permit the publication of my statment as I always stand behind my opinions and stand up for them. As a person of character I find this just normal. But I prohibit unmistakably the in part or changed publicatin of my statement and will be personally prosecute that noncompliance as an official member of the „Bavarian Journalist Association BJV“
Now to you, dear anonymous persons:
It is indeed a big sign of weekness to spread over Internet Sites, without publication details and therefore without judical relevant contact data, rumours and lies. Every logical thinking person knows that if you had any provable factual evidence you would not have a problem to hide behind disguised IP-Adresses but would be officially boast with your discoveries.
I know that in Sports the best player will always be the one to be attacked and put under pressure the most. We will also still disregard the blackmailing attempts directed. So you can spare yourself that time. In the last thirty years of my entrepreneurship I have often experienced people full of envy and resentment. That’s why I take those anonymous attempts as a clear acknowledgement of our head start. I offer every serious person amongst you a fair and constructive exchange. But for that I ask you to name your real personal data so I can clearly personalize you. Please think about this:
Nothing makes us more cowardly and unconscionable than the desire to be loved by all people. Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach
I wish to all of our sales partners especially with the latest optimization great sucess in „our FlexCom“ and want to thank you for all of the positive feedback to the latest improvements. You have earned that support through your commitment and loyalty. Rudolf Engelsberger
CEO FlexCom International AG
Ingenious people start works great,
hardworking people they complete.
Leonardo da Vinci (1452-1519), ital. artist

The miss quoted line of Leonardo da Vinci at the bottom of his statement is also quite funny. When these people start to behave posh and try to keep up appearences, they betray themselves. At least der Rudi does. I am afraid Cengiz is too clever for that.