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Thread: Paybox - New payment processor or new scam?

  1. #1
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    Paybox - New payment processor or new scam?

    There are people recruiting all over the forums and on Facebook for a prelauch on a new payment processor, called Paybox.

    PayBox.me

    A search shows its registration in august 2010 is hidden, but that its IP resolves to Seattle in Washington.


    The site gives no details about its ownership nor place or registration, neither in the ToS nor the rest of the site.

    The ToS absolve the company from all liabilities of course.

    They are offering amazing riches

    Why you should join today...

    * You start with a $50 balance and it's free.
    * PayBox will add up to $20 per day to your account for participating as we prepare to launch our new service.
    * You get $5 per person you refer to PayBox.
    * You'll be an EarlyBird user—before PayBox opens to the public.
    * You'll help shape the development of the best payment system ever designed for the Internet.
    * You could have hundreds or thousands of dollars in your account by the time we launch, without ever making a deposit!
    This has scam written all over it

    Any thoughts?

  2. #2
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    Re: Paybox - New payment processor or new scam?

    Funny you should post this. I have been receiving invites to this through Facebook and a couple of other online communities. Personally I cant see where the money to pay anyone is coming from and a brief look at the ToS leave a lot to be desired.

    With the existing problems with the payment processors enabling all manner of criminal behaviour from money laundering through narcotrafficing to terrorism, it seems strange that anyone would want to start up a business like this and on US soil.

    I'll stick to paypal and the normal banks if you dont mind.

  3. #3
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    Re: Paybox - New payment processor or new scam?

    Hmm, interesting company, thanks for posting it WishfulThinking. I've been poking around their site (use "site:paybox.me" in google to see all non-password protected pages) and there are some interesting ideas here but so far I'm not sure I have an opinion. First off the $50 sign up bonus and all other inducements are not "real" dollars, the terms of service explains it this way:

    Account Balances
    All account balances are held in PayBox currency. PayBox maintains a currency that is autonomous and independent of all nations and governments. The PayBox currency is denominated in dollars and cents (similar to the currency of the United States and over 20 other countries). The PayBox currency is currently in a closed system, and cannot be exchanged or spent. Before long we plan to open our currency to be spent and exchanged just as you can with any other currency.,..
    So what ever amount of "PayBox currency" you earn it isn't exactly real money and for the time being you can't even remove it from the system, only transfer it from one member to another. But they do purpose a certain sort of "loophole" out of their closed system:

    So, what’s the Loophole?

    Ah yes, the “loophole” I mentioned earlier.

    As with any “closed system”, people often figure out a way to get what they want. This isn’t intended to put ideas in anyone’s head, but, PayBox doesn’t have any rules against doing this yet. (I hear that would only happen if it becomes a problem).

    The idea is simple really. The key is person-to-person transactions. Once those come online, it would allow you to get money in and out of your PayBox account without it ever leaving the “closed box”.

    Here’s one way it could work:

    * Let’s say you have $500 in your PayBox account and you want to “withdraw” $250 of it.
    * Once person-to-person transactions are available, you could just find someone who wants to add $250 to their PayBox balance.
    * That person would just pay you $250 using some outside payment method. It could be PayPal, cash, or whatever you agree on.
    * Then, after receiving your “outside” payment, you would transfer the $250 within PayBox from your account to the buyer’s.

    Such an arrangement would allow you to “withdraw” from your PayBox account without the money ever leaving the “closed box”.
    Now that might sound, a little reminiscent of money laundering depending on what context we apply it in but it is only intended as a short term fix. The saving grace here seems to be that, at least at this moment, it doesn't appear that you can take real money and enter it into the system, all the digits on the screen are just their "funny money" so no one will be out of pocket. But if they give a hundred PayBox bucks to several thousand people before they allow open exchange with real money out of the system, what's to keep their first months balance sheet from showing a few hundred thousand dollars more leaving the system than entering it? Their TOS does state "As is the case with any currency, once the PayBox currency becomes openly exchangeable, its value as weighted against other world currencies can and will fluctuate due to forces beyond our control."

    Online payment processors are living in the "wild wild west" of the banking system. The rules aren't very well defined and the loopholes are large. Frequently the second tier companies are set up and designed to facilitate the sort of transactions that wouldn't stand the scrutiny of banking regulators, ponzi pimps and drug dealers are all looking for easier ways to move money without attracting attention. But so far I don't get that kind of "vibe" from PayBox. First off, if I were starting a gray legal payment processor I wouldn't do it in the USA, I'd do it in Canada. The laws (or lack there of) are looser up in the great white north and Canada sounds better than some Caribbean tax shelter. Also I wouldn't use Amazon Web Services as part of my network infrastructure (as PayBox does). If my intentions were less than honorable I wouldn't "cloud source" a damn thing and I wouldn't contract with a firm like Amazon (of amazon.com fame) who not only have no reason to protect me and any dirty laundry I have, but have an active reason not to do so.

    I very well could be wrong (just ask any woman who's cohabited with me before) but at this point I don't see PayBox as a straight up scam. I have some very large questions about their buisness model and I do see some red flags. They have a projected launch schedule and included under the first entry they mention "Research laws and regulations pertaining to our service in the countries where we plan to initially launch." But note that comes after hiring their initial staff. Sorry folks, you are heading into a brier patch of regulations which would be daunting even if none of your buisness plans were in no way innovative. You'd have been better served to research the legal landscape before you hired a staff and opened your doors. And it may be very interesting to see what the value of a PayBox buck after you've issued so many of them and start opening your closed box to outside money.
    So your prophets of finance have fallen on their collective proverbial face, and you hear muffled voices calling: Welcome to the human race.
    You made a killing dealing real estate at NASA selling cemetery plots in outer space til some falling coffins crashed upon your doorstep: Welcome to the human race.

    Open up your heart...

    Welcome to RealScam.com.

  4. #4
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    Re: Paybox - New payment processor or new scam?

    Thanks for your well thought out comments, Glim.

    I would add that, since posting this thread, I have come upon two other threads relating to this so-called payment processor that show it in a less than flattering light.

    The first

    Why Is PayBox.me A Scam | Asset Investing

    is by a previous promoter, and contains some excellent observations from our friend anti scam hunter Boris.

    The second is by Stefan Berg, who is involved in internet coaching but has done some research into paybox and has also come up with some very big red flags.

    http://stefanbergs.com/2010/09/paybox-me-is-it-a-scam/

    Through a search at

    http://www.robtex.com/dns/paybox.me.html

    there seems to be a relationship with sybox and thus to Greenzap, which is not very reassuring either.

    As alasycia has commented, this programme seems to be flooding the social networks on the web and, because of its free entry, is capturing a lot of attention.

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    Re: Paybox - New payment processor or new scam?

    Hi WishfulThinking,

    My name is David and I wrote the PayBox.me article you referenced in your post and I just wanted to say that it was written right when PayBox.me went online. Since then I have done a significant amount of research and I agree with Boris on this one, I don't think there is any way that this is anything but a scam. I wrote a new article (Update On The Potential PayBox.me Scam | Asset Investing) which I hope will leave less ambiguity about the legitimacy of the PayBox.me program and hopefully stem the rapid growth of this potentially dangerous scam.

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    Re: Paybox - New payment processor or new scam?

    David,

    Thank you very much for coming here and posting your new blog. It certainly raises some very serious red flags about Paybox.me, not least its non-connection with paybox.com and the resources (or absence of them) required to use a special currency. The cost and complexity of using this (whilst being paid for in any number of currencies) is another factor that leaves this so called new payment processor looking very amateurish.

    I look forward to reading the next part of your blog and to see what else you hae discovered.

    I have seen many comments on blogs and forums which complain about paypal,and they may not be the most pleasant organization to deal with at times, but they are legitimate and the largest in the world and even they dont have "paypal cash".

    The site of paybox.me, when compared with that of Paypal or even Alert Pay looks shoddy and amateurish. It is not normal for this kind of business to "prelaunch" and then hire staff. They are generally capitalized and properly set up before they launch.
    I guess that so many people are used to seeing amateurish web sites in the internet marketing business that they forget what a professional page from a professional business looks like.

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    Re: Paybox - New payment processor or new scam?

    Good grief; it's GreenZap (Google that, along with Damon Westmoreland's name) trying to come back to life.

    To slay this dragon, ask any proponent for a copy of their Money Services Business license, as required by the Feds, and also copies of their state licenses; this info is readily available on PayPal's site, for example. No licenses - no business, regardless of what they say.

    Jerry

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    Re: Paybox - New payment processor or new scam?

    I posted this to one of my blogs:-

    Friends have been inviting me to join payboxme.

    I thank them all for this but have the firm opinion that this is nothing more than a huge phishing scam. Although the initial personal information requested to join payboxme seems innocuous, who knows what they will ask when full membership needs to be bought.

    Why am I uneasy with this programme?
    • It is attempting to create a stand alone currency acceptable on the world market. Forex traders will know how difficult this is.
    • There is no indication that the dollars spoken of in the site publicity are paybox dollars.
    • There is no indication of an anticipated exchange rate for paybox dollars when the site goes live.
    • People joining now are told that the site is not open to the public – it is patently obvious that the public (you and me) can join.
    • The financial rewards, if paybox dollars are seen as at parity with US dollars are simply unsustainable.

    Let’s assume that 100 people per day have joined payboxme since it was launched on Sept 1st, 2010. Let’s further assume that 50% of those joining are referrals. Finally, let’s further assume that only the people active in December did any ‘work’ in order to earn $10 a day (that is half of what is claimed).

    Sept 1st to Dec 31st a total of 12,200 sign ups
    Sign up bonus of $25 x 12,200 = $305,000
    Referral bonus of $10 x 6,100 = $61,100
    Dec 1st to Dec 31st members work at $10 per day = $3,307,000

    Even with these very conservative figures, payboxme already owes $3,734,000 to its members. I could have factored in the ‘daily earnings’ of all recruits but I felt that it was fair to ignore those recruited in the first three months since it is not clear how much ‘work’ was available.

    As at 31st December, payboxme will owe $122,000 every single day to people doing ‘work (at only $10 a day) even if not a single new member signed up after that date (up to 17th January 2011, that is ANOTHER $2,074,000).

    The web site is very thin on information but I, for one, would like to know how the company will raise this sort of money.


    The people who are promoting this are happy to have themselvers associated with it and a couple have taken me to task for dissing the programme. paybox.me is probably over $10,000,000 down on the free dollars they have given away. I don't know how they will support PayBox dollars as in international currency but, in all truth, it isn't going to happen.

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    Re: Paybox - New payment processor or new scam?

    The biggest numbers of people I have found promoting this outsatanding opportunity are posting on Adlandpro 1 | Search Ads | AdlandPro Community

    If they can't find enough suckers from Adland itself, they use the "Adlanders in Facebook thread. " Who knows if posters on this thread are victims or villians? Welcome to Facebook - Log In, Sign Up or Learn More

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    Re: Paybox - New payment processor or new scam?

    It is my opinion that most people who sign up for 'deals' like Paybox are looking to make some fast money, so I would call them victims. Back in the early days of trying to make an online living, I too, was victim to these scams. They let you build up "fake" money in your account while the top guys are pocketing it and when pay up time comes, suddenly they close down or what you have done is against their rules and you wind up with Zero. After all the time spent promoting this fake MLM.

    All social media communities are feeding ground for this type of scam and fraud. I am thankful that I realized this a long time ago and do not sign up for anything like this anymore. People need to be made aware so they can avoid being ripped off.

  11. #11
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    Re: Paybox - New payment processor or new scam?

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcoot View Post

    paybox.me is probably over $10,000,000 down on the free dollars they have given away. I don't know how they will support PayBox dollars as in international currency but, in all truth, it isn't going to happen.
    I hate to say it "old coot" but the fact that it is one which is being advertised all over Adlandpro is enough to tell me that it is a scam. There are pages of newbies at Adlandpro who are going mad with their promotions.

    1 | Business Opps. | Search Ads | AdlandPro Community

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    Re: Paybox - New payment processor or new scam?

    HonestMe, if you are concerned about the numbers of people you know who are falling for this latest scam, you have a great way to help them. You appear to have threads on AdlandPro and on Facebook. These are both good places to inform people that they are falling for a scam by posting information and its sources. You know that you are welcome to post links to this forum so that they can come over and read about it for themselves.

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    Re: Paybox - New payment processor or new scam?

    Quote Originally Posted by WishfulThinking View Post
    HonestMe, if you are concerned about the numbers of people you know who are falling for this latest scam, you have a great way to help them. You appear to have threads on AdlandPro and on Facebook. These are both good places to inform people that they are falling for a scam by posting information and its sources. You know that you are welcome to post links to this forum so that they can come over and read about it for themselves.

    Thanks WT, and that is just what I did this morning but I think due to a storm it did not get posted in FB. I am going to repost and then I will know that another one of the admins deleted my post - we have only 3. I will come back and post the link here also.

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    Re: Paybox - New payment processor or new scam?

    Here is the link and if it disappears again, I made a screenshot.

    Welcome to Facebook - Log In, Sign Up or Learn More

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    Re: Paybox - New payment processor or new scam?

    Quote Originally Posted by honestme11 View Post
    It is my opinion that most people who sign up for 'deals' like Paybox are looking to make some fast money, so I would call them victims. Back in the early days of trying to make an online living, I too, was victim to these scams.
    No, people need to get some basic common sense. Didn't their parents ever teach them the saying, "If it sounds too good to be true, it is." There is gullible and then there is stupid. I can see one time. Two times? Fool. Over that is just plain "shoot them in the head" time.
    GEORGE DRANICHAK - OWNER OF SCAM.COM, PORN MOGUL AND KING OF THE PORN SPAMMERS

  16. #16
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    Re: Paybox - New payment processor or new scam?

    phishing scam, i would have to say. Dont see how it could be money. all the money could be worth .0001 per $100 if thats the 'current value' of usd/paybox.me funds.

  17. #17
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    Re: Paybox - New payment processor or new scam?

    Read this comment made by Boris on Stefan Berg's blog on paybox.me

    Comment 141

    Ok. finally got to the bottom of it……

    Ok folks. Here is the answer to the long answered question!!!

    Who is behind paybox.me ???

    The answer….. Nilo Bezerra
    A Brazilian National who mostly promote dubious MLM schemes.
    I am envious of the database on gullible folk he has to now market to.
    His techniques to pull people into the paybox.me scam have been awesomely successful. He has your email if nothing else.
    He can sell that database (or portions of it) or keep it to himself to market to.
    If you want to sign up to his affiliate army or whatever he calls it & part with some $$$ then all the best to you. Its probably info that can be found freely on the net anyway.

    As for the fairy dust sprinkled for the buzz of paybox, that will come to nothing.

    Promoter of :
    fortune2x2.com
    greenwinnetwork.com
    lockyourspot.com
    to-be-on-top.com

    All the best
    Boris the Investigator
    PayBox.me Is It a Scam? | Stefan Berg's Blog

    It also looks as if it is very difficult if not impossible to get off their email list! (See post 154 on Stefan's blog)

  18. #18
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    Re: Paybox - New payment processor or new scam?

    Here is the link to AIF where I posted about Paybox. One other of the admins agrees and stated "no ads":
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    Reposting this because it was the storm and my ic was disconnected.

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    Re: Paybox - New payment processor or new scam?

    Quote Originally Posted by WishfulThinking View Post
    Read this comment made by Boris on Stefan Berg's blog on paybox.me

    Comment 141



    PayBox.me Is It a Scam? | Stefan Berg's Blog

    It also looks as if it is very difficult if not impossible to get off their email list! (See post 154 on Stefan's blog)
    Thank you for this link. I have posted it in Adland. Paybox a Scam?

  20. #20
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    Re: Paybox - New payment processor or new scam?

    Interesting.
    And well almost a year on I see that paybox has disappeared (well almost)

    After releasing who was the person behind Paybox it went into damage control big time.
    That damage control was a massive downward spiral, but they were smart enough to rebrand.

    Yep same ole sh!t, just a different site.
    virtapay.com is the old paybox.

    I disappeared off the block for a while re investigating scam sites, return & see this almost immediately.
    Hope you all picked up on it & havent been sucked into virtapay!

    Regards
    Boris

  21. #21
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    Re: Paybox - New payment processor or new scam?

    Sometimes you don't have to say a word.

    Fraudsters say it for you.

    From Virtapays' own blog:



    http://www.virtapay.com/blog/?p=1423

    What's more, no further updates since:
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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