Thread: Uinvest...again...Scam or not?

Let's introduce another person behind Uinvest.

Lucy MacFarland aka Lucy Milani aka Lyudmila Kovalyova (Людмила Ковалёва)
Real Name: Людмила Ковалёва
DOB: 1981-06-22

Lucy_mugshots.jpg

Originally from Lviv, Ukraine now in Kiev
Roles: HR manager, Customer Support manager, GUN agents manager

facebook:http://www.facebook.com/LucyMilaniK
linkedin: Lyudmila Kovalyova | LinkedIn
twitter: https://twitter.com/GBFL_Lucy
odnoklassniki: Людмила Ковалёва : Однокла��ники
Her Art studio: Lucy Milani -

email: lucymilani@yandex.ru, l_kovalyova@yahoo.co.uk, lucy.kovalyova@gmail.com
skype: lucy.milani
ICQ: 448977929

home phone: +38 067 255 1651
mobile: +38 050 828 7028

here is her 2008 post in one of russian forums saying that she can consult on online opportunities and that she knows almost all online fraud schemes.

Lucy_knowsHYIP.jpg

Here is an ad placed by her for customer support position at Uinvest

Job_post.jpg


Here is part from Linked In. note that she says she is currently works at Innovative Solutions
we will come back to that company a bit later.


Lucy_li_insol.jpg

One more pic, Lucy interviewing a business owner from new Uinvest office

LUCY_interviewBO.jpg

If anyone is in any doubt about the legitimacy or otherwise of Uinvest, just do a quick Google using the terms "uinvest HYIP" and you'll soon understand why smart people will keep their money in their pocket.

What more needs to be said ??

"Paying" status on HYIP ponzi monitor sites.

Uinvest is featured on the Talkgold, MoneyMakerGroup and DreamTeamMoney HYIP ponzi forums.

No legitimate non HYIP ponzi business would allow itself to advertised on a HYIP ponzi forum or be "monitored" for paying status.

They actually trying to remove themselves from being associated whith HYIPs since Jun 2012 (after the site was hacked and they blamed competing HYIP Admins behind the attack)

Never less their managers David Darrell and AlexPR (more on them later) kept appearing on MMGP.ru forum and several other HYIP blogs after that.

Here is Google spreadsheet one uinvestor created after monitoring sale of UI shares for 17 months:

UISHARES_FEB23.jpg

URL: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...BcXQzamc#gid=0


Some of his conclusions:

The result the data shows is inconclusive. After almost a year and a half (17 months), it is shown that Uinvest still have money left over from investors with a total of 6 million dollars remaining. Because there are more money invested than withdrawn in Uinvest, the data cannot dismiss Uinvest from the list of potential ponzi websites. Uinvest is completely pass its profit maximising, on average, running for an extra month will cause Uinvest to lose some of its profits. However, if the only most recent month is isolated, Uinvest generated a profit of 500,000; hinting that it can still make a profit, if it is a ponzi.

By looking at the trend, Uinvest may reach its Shutdown-point in about 7 months as adding extra shares can no longer sustain their growing monthly payments. Uinvest may reach its Failure-point in about 2.5 years, losing all of the 6.5 million dollars it had gathered.

In order to create this chart, everything listed on the website was assumed to be true, datas are confirmed with email alerts from Uinvest. The profit generated by exchanging shares was only an estimate; it is impossible to find the true value of their profit generated through exchanges. This may have an significate impact on the Adjusted Total. Some projects are not listed. While this may impact their total income and their Total Expense. The unlisted Projects will have no noticable impact on the Total as they are not of high value. Expenses of Uinvest have no influerence over the conclusion.

In order to create this chart, everything listed on the website was assumed to be true,

Assuming a HYIP ponzi website is telling the truth ???

You have GOT to be kidding me.

Some Sweet lies from AlexPR about legality of uinvest on Jan 30 Management Chat:

International investment activity can be done in several ways:

* through the joint investment institutions
* securities purchase
* issuance of interest-bearing loans (or crediting)
* property rent (rental and leasing)
* other ways

The international investment complexity lies in the fact that an investor has to familiarize himself / herself with the local laws of a foreign country on a case-by-case basis to identify:

* the order and the size of tax
* applicable law
* the state guarantees of the investor’s protection rights
* and many other legal pieces of subtlety

It is Uinvest that carries as greater burden of the legal plan, thus providing you a wide horizon to work out investment strategies and develop a diversified portfolio. It should be clear for everyone that you are an investor of all investment projects that are available on the company’s website Uinvest, and the recipients of the investments are foreign companies known to you. Uinvest company is a regulator and guarantor of your investment activities realized within the framework of the investment projects.

Within Uinvest’s income, received as a commission from investment transactions carried out by you, Uinvest experts make a legal analysis of investment projects, and also implement the most effective legal mechanism for the protection of your rights. Uinvest activity, as well an any legal entity is governed primarily by the law of the country in which it is registered. As for Uinvest the federal law of the USA and the law of California state are applied. Therefore, the most appropriate question is: “Are investment activities conducted through the Uinvest site within the legal field?” It is impossible to answer this question unambiguously for two reasons:

* There is no unified international legal instrument that regulates investment activities.
* Any international investment transaction is governed by the laws of at least two countries: Investors and recipients country of investment.

In relation to the point previously mentioned, you might ask an additional question: What are the common trends of investment activity regulations conducted through the Uinvest site in different countries? Currently, we have two clearly defined models of national regulation of such investment activities:

* A positive one: Legislation and regulatory authorities of the country loyally control investment activities.
* A negative one: Legislation and regulatory authorities of the country regulate investment activities totally by restricting the activities of non-accredited investors, requiring investment entities to the investment registration, attraction of expensive brokerage firms, state taxes, etc. (Example: The U.S. and Canada)

Thus, Uinvest’s activity and, in particular, your Investment in most jurisdictions is in the legal field, and as a rule it is governed by civil, investment, contractual and tax regulations. Certain difficulties for Uinvest are related to the implementation of investment projects in the U.S. and Canadian jurisdictions. The adoption of JOBS Act (Jumpstart Our Business Startups) by the U.S. Congress on January 3, 2012 and the entry into force upon signature by the President of the United States April 5, 2012 is a positive development. This act considerably simplifies and legalizes the process of mass investment of start-up projects. One more important innovation of this act is the emergence of a new subject of investment, namely «Funding Portal», which actually means the U.S. recognition of Internet marketplaces of mass funding, including Uinvest.

In order to register Uinvest in the «Funding Portal» format, certain regulatory acts need to be adopted by the US Securities Exchange Commission (SEC), which governs the Funding Portal, and the order of their registration process. Despite many legal niceties and complexities of the investment activity in certain jurisdictions, Uinvest activity is in accordance with national law, even in such countries as the United States and Canada. We are proud to inform you that this positive result is achieved by bringing qualified lawyers of the U.S. and Canada to legal planning of Uinvest. This legal review has revealed only the basic legal aspects of Uinvest, but they are the basis for the legitimate exercise for a variety of other legal aspects of our business. I am grateful to our Legal, Support and PS Department for the info which helped me to make these reports.

URL: 01/30/13 with Alex PR

I wonder who is their US legal council, who gave him all these statements, I think there is enough to disbar the guy if he puts his name on it.

Uinvest Q&A about upcoming UPay (UI own payment processor/ecurrency) and Debit Cards linked to it

Dear All,
Below you can find the questions asked by our clients during the MC on January 30, 2013. The answers are provided by our Legal department representative.


1) user 4: Do you plan to register a new company?
Answer: Yes, we plan to register a new company.

2) cashonly - What about financical anonymity, will you require any documents that will be sent to issuing bank? And will that information be disclosed to international authorities/IRS for TAX?

Answer: Currently, we do all our best to not disclose personal information regarding our clients. Nevertheless, at this time we are arranging this matter with the issuing bank. The information will not be disclosed by default to international authorities/IRS for TAX.

3) dunpealhunter -if a government asks about users and their incomes, will you be obligated to give them the required information?
Answer: It depends on the special feature of a situation. Our payment services are out of the jurisdictions of most countries. Therefore, we are not obliged to fulfill some demands of foreign countries. Notwithstanding the previous statement, we will have to disclose the information about our clients within the bounds of the court’s decisions, governmental demand within the UPay’s jurisdiction, etc.

4) Guest John - in US it is very hard, or just impossible, for foreigners to apply for debit cards, requires US address proof and Form of ID, and social security number, will the issuing bank be actually US bank?
Answer: The issuing bank will definitely be a US bank. Yes, US banking system requires some specific documents like US address proof and other documents for the purposes to issue a debit card. Nevertheless, we are carrying on negotiations with some bank in regard to remove these requirements for our clients.

5) iwannabeanengineer: Will you tell any government details about your users, e.g. balance, income, adresse etc?
Answer: We will not tell any government details about our users (e.g. balance, income, address etc.) by default. With the exception of a particular case, when it is required by virtue of the UPay’s jurisdiction.

6) dunpealhunter - If a government asks for information about an user and you give it to that government, will you also inform the user that that government now has the info?
Answer: Yes. We will inform immediately each of our clients about such circumstances.

7) dunpealhunter - Hypothetical speaking, what if for example the Syrian dictator Assad opens an account and deposits $10 million, if the USA asks you to block that account and the income from it do you have to do it?
Answer: In accordance with the Financial Action Task Force (FATF) rules, which have legal effect almost all over the world – we will have to do it.

8) trinvest - for people whom are now starting off can uinvest post like an example of documents that u will be cross examining for investments so that they know they have fulfilled the criteria so they can apply?
Answer: As soon as the required list of documents is determined we will make it available for our clients at Uinvest’s website. Until this moment we don’t have the unified list of documents. Therefore, we can’t satisfy your offer now.

URL: Management Chat. 01.30.2013. Answers on Legal Aspects of UInvest

Can somebody please find federal requirements for opening an US bank account/debit card, I seriously doubt some US bank will offer anonymous/para-anonymous debit cards.

In future Uinvest says all uinvestors will be given a debit card

USbank_card_toALL.jpg
URL: Get your debit card with UInvest!


That would be a day when an US Bank will offer debit cards to uinvestors in the following countries:
Nigeria, Iran, Palestine, Lebanon, Ghana, Lybia, Brunei, Tunis

I wonder if US market makers INSTINET CORPORATION and THE ISLAND ECN
know that there is somebody selling unregistered securities under their registered market maker IDs (INCA, ISLD)
List of Market Makers: Level2StockQuotes.com - I Market Makers List

LEVEL 2 trading screen (most US stock traders familiar with):
L3.jpg


Whoever came up with the concept of how Uinvest itself should be shown in list of traders on their site did not really think hard :)



INCA.jpg

ISLD_2.jpg

mmakersr_reserve.jpg
URL: Review of a management chat on 09/11/12

Troubles in Uinvest GUN land ?

GUN projects - businesses which were found by uinvestors (GUN Agents) themselves and brought to Uinvest for the finder's fee, and Uinvest gives loans to those businesses funded by sale of shares to uinvestors on the site.

Most uinvestors consider GUN projects to be more transparent than non-GUN ones, because with some effort it was possible to find some of them in real life and get confirmation from the owner (BO) that he in fact did take the loan from Uinvest.

According to this thread on Uinvest's official forum Honey project investigation
one of the GUN businesses still did not get the money which Uinvest was supposed to transfer long time ago, but the strangest thing is
their stock still paid the monthly dividend on time to uinvestors who bought shares of this business :)

Here are some excerpts from the confused uinvestors and some attempts by the Support to explain the situation:



honey_nomoney_1.jpg
...
honey_nomoney_2.jpg
...
honey_nomoney_3.jpg
...
honey_nomoney_4.jpg
...
honey_nomoney_5.jpg

And 2 more

honey_nomoney_6.jpg
...
honey_nomoney_7.jpg

Lets introduce another person behind Uinvest.

"admin" (on UI chats sometimes) aka DmyDry aka FP-z1027 aka Dmitry Gurinenko (Дмитрий Гуриненко)
Real Name: Дмитрий Гуриненко
DOB: 1988-01-12

dima_mugshots.jpg

He is with Uinvest since it's beginning.

Known Roles: programmer, system administrator, Financial partner FP-z1027 (yes, one of UI money exchangers is Uinvest itself managed by him)

facebook: http://www.facebook.com/dmydry?fref=ts
VK: Dmitry Gurinenko
LiveJournal: dmydry - Profile
MMGP.ru HYIP forum: User Profile (in 2010 was exchanging e-currencies (LR,WMZ) there)
Him playing with webcam: Vokle | TEST MY MEETING :)

ICQ: 268313258
Skype: dmydry
Email: dmydry@gmail.com
Webmoney: Z519497732353

Home Address: Simirenka street, bld. 14/9, apt. 166, Kiev, postal 03134
mobile: +38 093 322 2278
Fax: +38 044 537 3465

Interesting thing that Fax number was registered at Melnikova street, bld. 83-A, suite 801 (Мельникова, ул., 83-А , оф.801)
Uinvest claims they are located at Melnikova street, bld. 83

(more will be posted later on all UI Kiev's claimed addresses and where they really are)


admin says he is FPZ: (08/15/12 with Dave Darrel and FP-z1027)
admin_FPz_UI.jpg

Deleted profile from free-lance.ru as it was on 4 Aug 2010
dima_freelance_2.jpg

Says he works at Инновационные Решения (Innovative Solutions) - same place where Lucy - (more on that company will be posted later)

Jobs.ua
dima_insol.jpg

Work.ua
dima_insol2.jpg

One more source, whois record of his (now expired) dmydry.com domain:
dmydry_whois.jpg

Here is a link I came across where they were boasting about this being an excellent program but it is the same HYIP that also states Profitable Sunrise is doing great!!

HYIP Monitor - HyipObserver.com

facebook: http://www.facebook.com/dmydry?fref=ts
VK: Dmitry Gurinenko
LiveJournal: dmydry - Profile
MMGP.ru HYIP forum: User Profile (in 2010 was exchanging e-currencies (LR,WMZ) there)
Him playing with webcam: Vokle | TEST MY MEETING :)

I have seen this person in something else I was researching, will have to check back and see.

BTW, great job on finding all this info!

Uinvest - Uinvest.com.ua
"Dear, Taralunga

Friday newsletter - a few events worth uinvestors' attention

A nice alternative

How often do we think of the necessity to print this or that document? Usually, we do not think, we just automatically click "Print" and pick up the document at the printer.UInvest suggests everyone to think for a moment about saving our environment, and offers an opportunity to receive an electronic certificate instead of the paper one. We truly believe this initiative will be kindly accepted by our UInvestors, and we will all make our environment better.

A Business Club For Loyal Users

We have always tried to do our best to single out a client, who shared a great idea or a solution with us. Of course, the number of loyal clients has been constantly increasing and it became harder to distinguish. But as you know, UInvest always has a solution! Therein, we have created a business club for our most loyal clients. From now on, all its members will get great advantages! Which ones? You can read about them in the review of the management chat that was held on Wed., February 27.

More referral commission, better terms!

Are you ready for the great news UInvest is rushing to remind? It is absolutely fantastic that from February 1, 2013 your referral commission depends completely on your referrals' activity. A new concept is very straight forward. Your commission increases together with your referrals' activity within UInvest, and decreases if vice versa. Do you feel excited about enjoying better terms of referrals' commission? Please get yourself aware of the highlights of this innovative approach by following the link (link)

UINVEST: PAYMENT SYSTEMS EVOLUTION

Because of the international nature of our business, since its inception, we have made many attempts to come up with the best possible solution for implementing a payment system equally suitable for all clients. Please read more about it by following this link.

NEWSLETTER QUESTION!!! CORRECT ANSWER WILL GIVE $50!!!!!

We are happy to announce the names of the previous newsletter contest winners!! Ladies and gentelmen, the winners, the first two uinvestors who gave the correct answer, are: Ivan and Dunpealhunter. We are pleased to award $50 USD to each winner!
Correct answer: JOBS Act.

A contest question for this week:


What is a seven-letter word in the English language that contains ten words without rearranging any of its letters?


Please submit your answer here. Winners’ names will be announced in the next newsletter.

Next letter will be issued on March, 8. Stay tuned!
Regards, UInvest Support Team. "

Yesterday 10:12 am

akinbimattew

What bothers me since yesterday is this electronic share certificate,that was what gloinvest issue and it was fake but they deceived investors with it then stopped payment last year january.the question is how many have received shares via postal services from uinvest since they started selling shares. Then how many has visited uinvest office in ukraine and US,how long does it take them to send share certificate as they claim is few months.

We investors have to start investigating this projects especially those going for conference this april.its upto you to post proofs of business.

Originally Posted by scratchycat

... how many have received shares via postal services from uinvest since they started selling shares. Then how many has visited uinvest office in ukraine and US,how long does it take them to send share certificate as they claim is few months.
...

It seems like mailing of "Certificate of shares" was halted completely half a year ago, before that there were huge delays like half a year, people were getting certificates on stocks
which they no longer have, sold (makes a possesion of those physical certificates completely pointless cause you can claim nothing with them :) ).
I never saw any US uinvestor receiving a Certificate (maybe because it automatically makes it a jurisdiction of Postal Inspector General and a federal crime).
There is also expedited delivery by DHL for $100 fee which i cannot confirm any one still gets them that way.

Certificates were sent with Thank You letter from Vitaliy Danilenko (claimed founder of Uinvest) and with project brochure which is suppose to reveal the real location of the business.
I can confirm that most brochures had incomplete address which makes those businesses impossible to find.

I think I will make a separate post with Certificates and brochures some other day.

Originally Posted by scratchycat

BTW, great job on finding all this info!

Thanks, I am trying to keep an eye on most sophisticated schemes out there for years.
When they think it's all in the past - they never expected me :)

Originally Posted by NikSam

Thanks, I am trying to keep an eye on most sophisticated schemes out there for years.
When they think it's all in the past - they never expected me :)

At the time of posting, this thread has had 3303 views, so SOMEBODY is watching

Some might remember when Uinvest did a big announcement on Aug 30 2012,
saying that they "acquired" a Ukrainian broker-dealer company Gefest and that makes their operations legal in Ukraine.

Should we even discuss?:

How ridiculous they sound by saying they are legal now,
while they conducted their activities since 2010 (2007 if you believe UI) and all this time (2 years) claiming they are operating legally in Ukraine ?

OR

How is it even remotely possible for a licensed broker-dealer to sell the unregistered securities to the public (if UI starts syphoning sale of shares through GEFEST) ?

OR

How is it possible to just go and buy a government-issued broker license if you buy a company to which that license was issued ?



Well, strangely enough, they stopped talking about it, nobody claims anything about licensed broker anymore, everything is quiet.


Let me tell you a story

There was a brokerage company GEFEST (ТОРГІВЕЛЬНО-ІНВЕСТИЦІЙНА КОМПАНІЯ "ГЕФЕСТ") [TAX ID: 37932338] owned,operated and licensed (licenses # 617819,617820)
by Andrey Katruhin (КАТРУХІН АНДРІЙ ІГОРОВИЧ)
located at Kiev, Vavilovih Street, bld. 9 , suite 31 (Київ, вулиця Вавилових, будинок 9, офіс 31).

One day Mr. Katruhin decided he doesn't want to be in this business anymore (or perhaps there was another reason).
Luckily enough he knew Maxim Kulakov (Махим Кулаков) [documented director of Ю-Iнвест (Uinvest - Ukraine) ].
And Mr. Kulakov offered to pay him just for changing the name of GEFEST director in the company registry to Kulakov's.
But the address and the phone number still stayed the same.
Mr. Kulakov saw it very convenient considering other companies listing him as a director have addresses where neither him or companies can be found.
Mr. Katruhin closed the office, terminated the rent and left.

On Novemeber 14 2012 , NSSMC (Ukrainian equivalent of SEC) decided to send an inspector to that address (very normal thing if you are licensed broker/dealer),
and inspector did not find the company GEFEST at that address, which is very strong violation of securities law. The act of violation was registered on Nov 23 2012
under number 3060-СД-1-Т.
On December 20 2012 NSSMC came to decision to terminate licenses (broker: AB617819, dealer: AB617820) previously issued to Gefest.

That was a story of the fall of the broker Gefest and explains why Uinvest kept so quiet,
never mentioning their "acquired" brokerage company again, meanwhile still claiming they are operating legally in Ukraine.

(Mr. Kulakov will be introduced in more details in some later post)

--
Supporting evidence: Uinvest acquires Broker Dealer

Gefest_UI_news.jpg



GEFEST Company registration now under Kulakov:

gefest_tax_kulakov.jpg


Official NSSMC decision (# 1069-ЦД-1-Т) to terminate GEFEST licenses (in Ukrainian), now a public record:

postanova_pro_anulyuvannya_licenziyi_1069.pdf

The properties arent real.= Uninvest cant be taking % of profit after funding infusion.
It takes 9-10 months to break even on shares=not a huge amount of rebuy.
Even % of the GUN is paying back loans to no one.

Yet this has paid well for 6? years?????
Real outside money is coming into Uinvest from somewhere.
Judging from this programs back story and history/tradition from the Ukraine.
The non member $ coming in from "under the table" sources?


I would be very careful about looking into this clan.

not 6 years, UI only somewhere under 1000 days old , but they themselves claim they been doing investments and loans offline since 2007 (time of company registration)
The only activity of them doing anything before 2010 is wholesaling some products and apartment repairs (if they really were involved in loansharking, there is no record of it and i bet their tax records did not account for it)
If you look at their "Types or Activity"
they filed at time of company registration (https://uinvest.com.ua/uinvest-corporate-kit), it is 1.5 pages long listing just everything possible to list there,
including jewelry repair, selling train tickets, investments (of course), etc - sign of a company which was created to be sold to the best bidder.
They even dared at some time in the past to claim that because they themselves listed "investments" there at time of registration it makes them legal in Ukraine
to provide investments.

Most uinvest businesses are non-Gun ones paying on average 5-15% monthly divided which is fixed per business,
those (not a single one was found in real life and confirmed but we have 8 cases of opposite) are claimed to be located some-there in ex-soviet union territory.


GUN businesses only started showing up less than year ago, it was a new concept ala "Bring your Own Business" usually monthly dividend is lower on those,
but strange thing that owners of those businesses can not reveal the terms of their agreement with Uinvest, even to the Gun Agent who brought them in. They signed a non disclosure agreement with uinvest.
There is suspicion that businesses are getting much smaller amount of loan than accumulated amount of shares sold to uinvestors and interest rate way lower than monthly % of dividend paid to uinvestors (ponzi rides a top of real loan).


GUN Businesses Owners (if some of them read here) you can be legally held responsible in your local jurisdiction if you were aware that funding of those loans was provided
by public through the sale of unregistered securities. Whatever Uinvest is telling you that it should be looked at as a private loan from Uinvest to your business is nonsense.
Get a legal financial advice, damn it.

Just checking in over at TG for another program and a person had this in signature, I guess they just try to cover all the bases for these programs.

https://uinvest.com.ua/?amigosid=1656

Uinvest is the largest online
crowdfunding platform. Since 2007.

If you are a business owner looking for investments in your business,
or an investor seeking an opportunity to gain profits
from risk-free investments, then Uinvest is the right place
to realize you goals. We connect businesses
and investments with one click!

not 6 years, UI only somewhere under 1000 days old , but they themselves claim they been doing investments and loans offline since 2007 (time of company registration)
The only activity of them doing anything before 2010 is wholesaling some products and apartment repairs (if they really were involved in loansharking, there is no record of it and i bet their tax records did not account for it)
If you look at their "Types or Activity"

Chats going on:


This person is speaking Russian --
Enable Translation

Tim, I'm great, how are you?

Can I help you?

ajitan1992

7:15 AM

Why Honey project is canceled ?

Marina M
7:19 AM

This person is speaking Russian --
Enable Translation

ajitan, it was cancelled for security reason , since it did not pass the last stage of our verification

Not sure how I managed to get in on a chat system because I am not a member or ever signed up!

This is a chat in Indonesian that I picked up on the same link above: (Google translate)



main disini intinya jgn ngutang = menyebabkan susah bep coz mau trading takut bayar cicilan dll dan bunga bank berapa coba

play here essentially jgn owe = cause trouble coz BEP would be afraid to pay the mortgage trading bank interest etc and how trial

faisal celalu gal

7:41 AM

For cash purchase, the customer can simply come to the Outlet Pawn by paying the value of precious metals to be purchased
To purchase installment, the customer can determine the pattern of installment payments in accordance with the wishes. Down payment in the amount of about 20% to 45% of the value of purchased metal mmulia and determined by how long the repayment period is taken.
For On-line purchases can visit Pegadaian.co.id - Portal Resmi PT Pegadaian (Persero), customers can register online, choose a cool precious metals, determine where retrieval of goods and make payments on-line. Taking things to do in outlets Pawn Gallery 24 are addressed.

anekapesanan

7:41 AM

@ yudhy: if you want to brave hell .. stay borrow money through a credit card, etc. (just yahh it was how so - if it works good ... if kaga's ready to be a fugitive), when ane's principle: do not force it if we can not ;)

Gohan

7:42 AM

waduhhh