Thread: The ACN scam / pyramid scheme

Originally Posted by Caner

And the sad part here is that the answer from reps / IBOs when confronted with these stats / facts is going to be : "but ACN is not for everyone" or "you see people failing at businesses everyday, it's a risk you're taking"

I will grant there are plenty of people that take outsized risks in business and are never heard from again. At the same time successes from beating the odds make it into the motivational books and MLM rallies because they are rare. A combination of cult like tactics and motivational fluff in MLM presents the successes as if it is just an issue of trying hard enough and doing everything your upline tells you.

It makes all the sense in the world to take calculated risks given the right circumstances, with a failure rate on par with Vegas, MLM is hardly that. Come to think of it Vegas is similar to network marketing, splashy pictures of the winners, that could be you.

the devil.JPG

Originally Posted by Caner

This makes me laugh. The ultimate answer to the dreaded "but is it a pyramid scheme?"

And recruiting via twitter, what a business opportunity this must be! heh

Now THAT is funny. Wow.

Originally Posted by JustTooMuchTime

Now THAT is funny. Wow.

Here's the follow up. Same arguments as always. Not even addressing the pyramid scheme aspect, just asking questions to try and disprove the claim.

Also the funny thing to note here is that he replies with "no answer lol" after a day of not replying to him, somehow complaining I can't back up my claims. Yet when I do reply, a lot of ACN reps (I'm sure he would be one of the first) will say I have no life and to do something else than bash on "successful people" because I'm "jealous of their success".

What will it take to please them?

Yesterday I watched Boiling Room for the first time (great movie), and this morning I just re-watched the 2004 (or 2005) documentary about the rise and fall of Enron.

Watching those really open your eyes on these type of businesses. On one hand you have the gullible, money hungry kids out of college that are looking to become the next Wolf of Wall Street, and on the other you have the CEOs and executives that know that a little to well and spoil anyone that could uncover the truth with money/women/drugs/whatever. At Enron, you could clearly see that the top executives knew too well what was going on, but were still unloading all their lies in front of the press conferences / meetings. Very similar to what we see with ACN and MLMs : fake it till you make it, or as Ben Affleck would say : "Act as if". Act as if you got a nine inch cock!

The Enron scandal is really interesting because it has been around for around 15 years if I recall correctly (mid 1980s till beginning of 2000). One of the arguments about ACN is "ACN has been around since 1993, how could this be a pyramid scheme since those only last a couple years at best??" Well in this case (Enron wasn't a pyramid, but still a huge scam) time isn't really an issue here.

I could go on for hours finding similarities between those type businesses, but it would probably be worthless since people just seem to see past it. Although I really suggest watching those if you're interested in the subject. I'm currently on a hunt for more documentaries to watch.

Originally Posted by Caner

I could go on for hours finding similarities between those type businesses, but it would probably be worthless since people just seem to see past it.

It's never worthless.

SOME people seem to see past it, for sure, but many don't.

We can't save the world nor save people from themselves, that's not the reason REALSCAM.com exists

We can, however, continue to put the information out there, knowing that SOME people will find the information useful when making their decisions

Originally Posted by littleroundman

It's never worthless.

SOME people seem to see past it, for sure, but many don't.

We can't save the world nor save people from themselves, that's not the reason REALSCAM.com exists

We can, however, continue to put the information out there, knowing that SOME people will find the information useful when making their decisions

Yeah you're right, this is also my mindset but sometimes it's discouraging to see people so blatantly telling lies and get away with it, and victims telling you, the one trying to help them out, that you're just jealous.

Like I said earlier I've watched some movies/docs recently and it's always the same thing : "if we could've known sooner", "i don't know what I was thinking", "when you look back, there was a ton of red flags we decided to look past" and then I'm just here like "damnit I told you about it and you never listened, and of course you'll never admit to it"

/rant

On the subject of ACN now, found this guy, "son of a billionaire" :



1- IBO at the age of 21!! : wow congrats man! Anyone with $500 (and a couple more 100s for a nice suit) that is at least 18 can become one too.
2- A CEO mindset : I would love to hear more about this. Tell me how your business compares to a real one.
3- Residual is the way : You're better off buying a scratching ticket every week for the rest of your life for better odds of winning residual income. Those $1000 a week ones seem pretty sweet.
4- Contact me : Of course..

Caner I was wondering if you had an official income disclosure you could upload? Also interested in total affiliates, turnover and some price points for their products if you have any of that.

Originally Posted by ribshaw

Caner I was wondering if you had an official income disclosure you could upload? Also interested in total affiliates, turnover and some price points for their products if you have any of that.

I have looked and looked, people online say "just look at the income disclosure on their site" but I just can't find it. The only thing I got is an archived page that Wikipedia cites as a source. http://web.archive.org/web/201005232...potential.html

Of course :

Success as an ACN Representative is not guaranteed, but rather influenced by an individual's specific efforts. Not all ACN Independent Representatives make a profit and no one can be guaranteed success as an ACN Independent Representative.

As for the price points, it really depends on the area you're situated at. From Ethan's website, he says the prices are not competitive. I checked around here and it looks a little bit better, but you don't end up saving enough to justify going through all the trouble it brings. Just look at reviews online, their customer services looks like ****. Why would you go through a middleman instead of going directly to the company?

Oh right, because favors...

But joke aside, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Anyway, I just updated "The ACN Scam Part 2 : The Deception" by adding the Cult-like mentality section. It's still a first draft, so more information will be added.

The ACN Scam Part 2 : The Deception

Originally Posted by Caner

At Enron, you could clearly see that the top executives knew too well what was going on, but were still unloading all their lies in front of the press conferences / meetings. Very similar to what we see with ACN and MLMs

Not that every short seller has a pure heart, however, it is often a very loud tell that something is amiss when management rails against the shorts as they did with Enron and now Herbalife. Very similar to what the MLM and Scam community do with blogs portraying the dark side of their "opportunities". Rather than deal with the facts of virtually guaranteed losses for the masses, attack the messengers.

Originally Posted by Caner

As for the price points, it really depends on the area you're situated at. From Ethan's website, he says the prices are not competitive. I checked around here and it looks a little bit better, but you don't end up saving enough to justify going through all the trouble it brings. Just look at reviews online, their customer services looks like ****. Why would you go through a middleman instead of going directly to the company?

Pricing has always been a problem with MLM due to the many levels of commission so I have never seen much worth the hassle. I had been looking for a mobile internet coupled with a cell phone plan to see what is out there. Probably get six choices using google, none are ACN, and none involve dealing with salespeople unless I choose to go that route. There are so few services these days where that sort of hassle free comparison shopping isn't available that trying to build a living around it seems like a tough road to travel.

A very kind lady has been emailing me recently and sent me scanned pages of a few sections of some sort of ACN executive "handbook". I have yet to look through it but this might make things pretty interesting. This handbook is not supposed to be available to the public, so I'll keep you updated.

There's also those interesting IBO promotions, showing examples of the acquisition bonuses, below is the link

Index of /vault

Also I just stumbled upon this blog. I won't mention it again not to give it too much exposure, but after trying to leave a comment and being met with a "Only visible after approval" and also reading the rest of the comments, I realized once again how "objective" reviews of "former" ACN IBOs never truly are objective.

Look at the comments.

ACNIBO: Is ACN A Scam? - Yes Or No, Read The Facts - Pt.1

Also I've just reached first page for the keyword "ACN" on Google.com. (when I search myself I get the first result on the second page). SERPs can change significantly overnight so who knows, maybe I'll get buried in a couple of days, but for now it helps promote the page even more to people only looking for info on ACN, not necessarily if it's a scam.

Thank you Rob for making me laugh tonight.

Hello, to whom it may concern. My name is -, I'm a 22 year old college student going for a degree in mechanical engineering, I met a nice young lady on social media who turns out to be a ACN rep. Long story short after getting ready and hour prior to my first ACN meeting/ sign up I did my research, thanks to your website I was able to Avoid a disastrous mistake. I was honest with the rep and told her I have integrity, morals and I do not see myself having the ability to SCAM other people let alone allow myself to get scammed. Thank you so much for this website and for breaking the pyramid down. Sincerely -

I love receiving these kind of messages. A real motivation.

This is from the guidebook I got emailed, from some kind of ACN branch / group. I learned it's pretty common at ACN to have "sub-ACNs" that are more regional. Of course that are not ACN themselves, but IBOs grouping together and forming some sort of circlejerk where they can all "succeed" together.

Anyway, the guidebook is apparently private and only high ranked member had access to it. It is from some "Dynasty Group". Another I heard of is Future Lifestyle Network. All buzz words really.

I added my own comments on top of the scanned page.

(if you came here by clicking 'latest post', I made another post above)

Also, a little off topic but it's going up! I'm outranking several of ACN's own websites. I simply hope it stays this way for a while.

Originally Posted by Caner

I learned it's pretty common at ACN to have "sub-ACNs" that are more regional. Of course that are not ACN themselves, but IBOs grouping together and forming some sort of circlejerk where they can all "succeed" together.

The Scamdaddy of them all has several similar subgroups, perpetrating what is affectionately known as the Tools Scam. A motivation ruse separate from the pyramid under the guise that the upline will only do what's best for the team. Duplication and faux positivity being the keys to success, that will be $20. See you next week at the $50 rally.

https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/AUS/tools.htm

It would not be shocking in the least to find ACN is milking associates with all order of pay at the door trainings. Not saying they are, just wouldn't be shocking. If the TRUE goal of the upline was to help members build a business using techniques learned via the TOOLS, they would pay for all training and the resulting profits would be returned via the MLM structure.

Since uplines don't pay for squat, best guess they have run the numbers both ways and figure the bilk the affiliate route has a higher ROI.

Originally Posted by ribshaw

The Scamdaddy of them all has several similar subgroups, perpetrating what is affectionately known as the Tools Scam. A motivation ruse separate from the pyramid under the guise that the upline will only do what's best for the team. Duplication and faux positivity being the keys to success, that will be $20. See you next week at the $50 rally.

https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/AUS/tools.htm

It would not be shocking in the least to find ACN is milking associates with all order of pay at the door trainings. Not saying they are, just wouldn't be shocking. If the TRUE goal of the upline was to help members build a business using techniques learned via the TOOLS, they would pay for all training and the resulting profits would be returned via the MLM structure.

Since uplines don't pay for squat, best guess they have run the numbers both ways and figure the bilk the affiliate route has a higher ROI.

Interesting, looks like I have more reading to do.

hmmmm. video calling and one doesn't even need a proprietary phone.