Thread: Arbonne International

Ever been approached by an Arbonne consultant? Beware, they're everywhere!

These are general categories of Arbonne products:

• skincare
• hair care
• cosmetics
• fragrances
• baby skincare
• supplements

They claim that their products are "pure, safe and beneficial", yet many contain chemicals that are harmful for the skin. The products are overpriced and not worth even trying.

Their compensation structure includes:
Retail Commissions
1) up to 35% of the retail price for the sale of Arbonne products to non-affiliate customers (people who are not members)
2) 15% commission on orders made by “preferred customers” (members who pay a fee to get the discount)

Unilevel Commissions
- Residual commissions according to their pyramid scheme.
- A "car bonus" for their Regional VPs and above: a white Mercedes-Benz. This is actually a lease that Arbonne places on the name of the person. Arbonne gives monthly bonuses for the lease provided that the person keeps meeting their quotas. Many people think that the whole car is given by Arbonne for free but this is not true.

There's more detailed info on their scheme on a site called "Behind MLM". Just google Arbonne Review: Interesting comp plan, erroneous retail (I can't post URLs yet because I'm new to this forum)

PLEASE STAY AWAY FROM THIS COMPANY.

Originally Posted by skeptic99

They claim that their products are "pure, safe and beneficial", yet many contain chemicals that are harmful for the skin. The products are overpriced and not worth even trying.

I didn't get what you meant by that statement. Many companies sell those type of products and don't have any MLM scheme behind them. And there are good companies who have a MLM scheme and have good quality products.

Originally Posted by Realname

I didn't get what you meant by that statement. Many companies sell those type of products and don't have any MLM scheme behind them. And there are good companies who have a MLM scheme and have good quality products.

At first I thought that the products were really good (after trying a cream and hearing nothing but positive reviews from the consultants) and even considered the possibility of becoming a "preferred customer"; however a little research on the Internet pointed me to believe their products are not as excellent as they claim. More specifically, I found not so positive reviews of their ingredients in two cosmetics websites, and some users have said that the creams have produced rashes and skin breakouts.

I know that skincare products can have different results on different people, but the point is that this company says their products don't contain any harmful chemicals and it has been proven otherwise by specialists who have real knowledge. So... paying outrageous prices for these so-called premium & pure products cannot be justified.

Another info I found : back in 2004-5 Arbonne used to say that they owned a laboratory in Switzerland. A person in Switzerland phoned the regulatory body of the Swiss govt to check on this, and voila, there was no such lab anywhere in Switzerland! Now Arbonne says on their website that they have "Swiss heritage" (whatever that is) but the truth is that all their labs and plants have always been in the US. Why did they need to lie like that?? Looks totally unethical to me.

Here is a nice dose of reality:

Multi-Level Marketing Income Disclosures | Fraud Files Forensic Accounting Blog

Why Products Offered by Multi-Level Marketing Companies Are So Expensive | Fraud Files Forensic Accounting Blog

Originally Posted by skeptic99

At first I thought that the products were really good (after trying a cream and hearing nothing but positive reviews from the consultants) and even considered the possibility of becoming a "preferred customer"; however a little research on the Internet pointed me to believe their products are not as excellent as they claim. More specifically, I found not so positive reviews of their ingredients in two cosmetics websites, and some users have said that the creams have produced rashes and skin breakouts.

I know that skincare products can have different results on different people, but the point is that this company says their products don't contain any harmful chemicals and it has been proven otherwise by specialists who have real knowledge. So... paying outrageous prices for these so-called premium & pure products cannot be justified.

Another info I found : back in 2004-5 Arbonne used to say that they owned a laboratory in Switzerland. A person in Switzerland phoned the regulatory body of the Swiss govt to check on this, and voila, there was no such lab anywhere in Switzerland! Now Arbonne says on their website that they have "Swiss heritage" (whatever that is) but the truth is that all their labs and plants have always been in the US. Why did they need to lie like that?? Looks totally unethical to me.

That's why you should always check the quality of the product and now if its really certified by credible entities. There are better companies who sell organic cosmetics which are great and I'm not refering to herbalife but well know south american companies who have also a MLM scheme behind but their products are genuine and price is not too expensive.

Originally Posted by Realname

That's why you should always check the quality of the product and now if its really certified by credible entities. There are better companies who sell organic cosmetics which are great and I'm not refering to herbalife but well know south american companies who have also a MLM scheme behind but their products are genuine and price is not too expensive.

If the products were so great, companies out in the real world would be fighting to get the rights to sell them. The fact that they are sold MLM style pretty much guarantees they are overpriced and over-hyped. The real product in every MLM is the money making opportunity. Unfortunately, only a tiny fraction at the top of the pyramid can profit as in the end it is a math game.

Originally Posted by Soapboxmom

If the products were so great, companies out in the real world would be fighting to get the rights to sell them. The fact that they are sold MLM style pretty much guarantees they are overpriced and over-hyped. The real product in every MLM is the money making opportunity. Unfortunately, only a tiny fraction at the top of the pyramid can profit as in the end it is a math game.

Its not always like that. Many companies don't have a MLM scheme and their product's price is higher than the price offered by companies who have a MLM scheme. The reason is simple its cheaper to pay affiliates than pay for store rents and fixed sales to workers so a MLM scheme can be cheaper for company and for customers too!

Originally Posted by Realname

Its not always like that. Many companies don't have a MLM scheme and their product's price is higher than the price offered by companies who have a MLM scheme. The reason is simple its cheaper to pay affiliates than pay for store rents and fixed sales to workers so a MLM scheme can be cheaper for company and for customers too!

Paying out commissions on multiple levels will make for a more expensive product and leave only the few at the top of the pyramid profiting:

Melaleuca is a SCAM!

Melaleuca is a SCAM!

Originally Posted by Realname

Its not always like that. Many companies don't have a MLM scheme and their product's price is higher than the price offered by companies who have a MLM scheme.

This could be true, although I don't have a concrete example right now, as it's difficult to compare skincare products without specialized knowledge. But we can assume that a high-end brand like Chanel or Yves-Saint-Laurent may be selling a cream very similar to an MLM-company's cream at a higher price. That's understandable since they're catering to certain markets and don't need the MLM scheme.

Originally Posted by Realname

The reason is simple its cheaper to pay affiliates than pay for store rents and fixed sales to workers so a MLM scheme can be cheaper for company and for customers too!

From an MLM company's standpoint, sure, it's cheaper to pay commissions to affiliates because most of them quit after a year or so. Now, from the customers' perspective it's a different story. By the way, I understand the real "customers" of MLMs are the affiliates/distributors. They may be getting a reasonable price per product but are actually spending a lot of money to meet their quotas... this doesn't make sense to me.

Originally Posted by Realname

Many companies sell those type of products and don't have any MLM scheme behind them.

The health and wellness industry is riddled with snake oil whether in or out of an MLM wrapper. Adding MLM never seems to make it better as some "independent consultants" are all too eager to repeat whatever their uplines tell them...

A lot of their talks about products shows a complete lack of research and scientific understanding - eg 99% of breast tumours contain parabens therefore paraben free products are essential! Well 100% of tumours have many other substances in them including simple substances like sodium and water - insert comment here!

Arbonne - In it for the money and not much else!!! Review 573748 Dec 23, Direct Selling @ Pissed Consumer

This sort of nonsense of course is not limited to MLM...

Snake Oil For The 21st Century | Health Claims Too Good To Be True - Consumer Reports

Snake Oil in the Supermarket - Scientific American

==================================================

Originally Posted by Realname

And there are good companies who have a MLM scheme and have good quality products.

My question would be are there MLM companies where the products truly are high quality and available at a low enough price that an affiliate can make money net of expenses? A company with very low attrition rates of customers, representatives, and an income distribution skewed beyond the top 1%.


More of what most people experience is something like this.

My wife's coworker that barely knew her invited her for coffee for an "opportunity".

Bogleheads • View topic - Any experience with Arbonne (scam?) ?

My girlfriend went to a Mark Kay party a while back, I think about 5 people showed up. She bought about $25 worth of stuff, is not going to be a repeat customer, and there will be NO party at our house. All around that seems like a very difficult way for anyone beyond the company and a very few at the top to realize any sort of value as a consumer or an affiliate.

Maybe to some retail customers Mary Kay or Nu Skin or Arbonne have the only products they will use. More often than not this "loyalty" seems to be a direct function of a person's continued participation with whatever MLM company they represent at the time.


==================================================

This seems eerily typical of MLM, why can't a "successful" affiliate hire a recruit for a period of time to see if that person can actually sell? Instead its buy a starter kit, some product to have on hand, next thing the affiliate knows they are setting up an account on EBAY to dump it all at a loss.

13. The Company will sell to the Arbonne Independent Consultant a Starter Kit containing a comprehensive range of literature for sales promotion and demonstration
purposes.

14. The Arbonne Independent Consultant may only sell the products on a direct selling basis and is not permitted to sell or promote the products at retail stores,
in markets, trade shows, expositions, other sales forums (including online forums and bulletin boards) or public places without the consent of the Company.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...,d.eXY&cad=rja

and then we're overlooking the:

hotdogs..........arbonne hotdogs
what kind of kid eats arbonne hotdogs..........

Ok, now I may be able to share URLs:

This is the site I was talking about earlier: Arbonne Review: Interesting comp plan, erroneous retail

And here you can read some product reviews:

• Paula's Choice: Arbonne At-A-Glance
• Be Beauty Smart (3 posts)
• Arbonne Calling: Is Arbonne Really As Pure And Safe As You Think?
• ARBONNE RE9 ADVANCED SCAM: Ingredients rank at the bottom

Here's a consent judgment that was recently (Dec 4, 2014) reached between a non-profit called "ENVIRONMENTAL RESEARCH
CENTER (ERC)" and Arbonne in which ERC alleges:

"ERC has identified violations of California's Safe Drinking Water and Toxic
Enforcement Act of 1986 ("Proposition 65"

Of course in a consent judgment things are just settled and nobody admits to
anything, so you can form your own opinion by reading through the consent judgment here:
http://oag.ca.gov/system/files/prop6...00313J2414.pdf

Originally Posted by skeptic99

This could be true, although I don't have a concrete example right now, as it's difficult to compare skincare products without specialized knowledge. But we can assume that a high-end brand like Chanel or Yves-Saint-Laurent may be selling a cream very similar to an MLM-company's cream at a higher price. That's understandable since they're catering to certain markets and don't need the MLM scheme.




From an MLM company's standpoint, sure, it's cheaper to pay commissions to affiliates because most of them quit after a year or so. Now, from the customers' perspective it's a different story. By the way, I understand the real "customers" of MLMs are the affiliates/distributors. They may be getting a reasonable price per product but are actually spending a lot of money to meet their quotas... this doesn't make sense to me.

Well not all companies have the same affiliation fees and not all of them have an useless product that can't attract non affiliate customers. When the most attractive product of a MLM company is the money making oportunity and not a real good quality product its a signal that company will fail sooner or later....

Originally Posted by ribshaw

My question would be are there MLM companies where the products truly are high quality and available at a low enough price that an affiliate can make money net of expenses? A company with very low attrition rates of customers, representatives, and an income distribution skewed beyond the top 1%.


More of what most people experience is something like this.

My wife's coworker that barely knew her invited her for coffee for an "opportunity".

Yes there are successfully MLM companies and you can see the example of natura in Brazil. Their products Have the best relation price/quality and their business model is sustainable. Obviously many MLM don't have a good business model based in the product quality and its sales and that is the main reason why they fail.

there are no 'good' mlm's. As for 'Natura in Brazil' i think you are just trying to 'shill' that one. Any good company with a worth while product will stand on it's own merits in a legitimate retail environment.

Originally Posted by kath

there are no 'good' mlm's. As for 'Natura in Brazil' i think you are just trying to 'shill' that one. Any good company with a worth while product will stand on it's own merits in a legitimate retail environment.

So for you good are companies like Macdonalds or Coca-cola who sell bullshit products which are very harmful to your health, right???

And I'm don't want to shill anything. I've just gave you an example of a top ranking company in Brazil who uses a mlm business model. I think what is really good is not the business model but a product that is good for your health and a good price for customers and also good oportunity for sellers. So you think is better to pay miserable sales for those who work 8 hours a day in macdonalds restaurants to make his leader richer and richer??? A classic business model is also a pyramid where his leader become richer by abusing of the hard work of his slaves who work very hard everyday to get a very low salary....

Originally Posted by Realname

So for you good are companies like Macdonalds or Coca-cola who sell bullshit products which are very harmful to your health, right???

And I'm don't want to shill anything. I've just gave you an example of a top ranking company in Brazil who uses a mlm business model. I think what is really good is not the business model but a product that is good for your health and a good price for customers and also good oportunity for sellers. So you think is better to pay miserable sales for those who work 8 hours a day in macdonalds restaurants to make his leader richer and richer??? A classic business model is also a pyramid where his leader become richer by abusing of the hard work of his slaves who work very hard everyday to get a very low salary....

your strawman argument is a major fail on this site.
While you can consider McDonalds no good for someone all you want, they are not overpriced to fund unnecessary links in a chain.
And every employee gets paid in a legitimate business (while not having to put any money out to the employer - i.e they make money) where all the latter ones in an mlm lose - not even come close to breaking even - lose. fact.
if mlm products are really as good as they want you to believe, they would easily sell on the open market at reasonable prices. No one can argue that. And then everyone would get paid that had to do with it's sales.
We haven't even touched the 'it's your business' but it's not your business' bullshit.

Originally Posted by Whip

your strawman argument is a major fail on this site.
While you can consider McDonalds no good for someone all you want, they are not overpriced to fund unnecessary links in a chain.
And every employee gets paid in a legitimate business (while not having to put any money out to the employer - i.e they make money) where all the latter ones in an mlm lose - not even come close to breaking even - lose. fact.
if mlm products are really as good as they want you to believe, they would easily sell on the open market at reasonable prices. No one can argue that. And then everyone would get paid that had to do with it's sales.
We haven't even touched the 'it's your business' but it's not your business' bullshit.

Not overpriced??? How can be not overpriced if here in EU you pay about 3,5 euros for a single MCfish ??? Its about 300% more than production cost!!! And consider that they pay the lowest sales to its employers most of the money go to their leaders who are in the top of company's hierarchy just like in any other pyramid scheme!

And none is forced to join mlm to buy the product. They can buy it directly from reseller. So they buy a product and don't lose anything like subscription fees.

What the heck has McDonalds or anyone else got to do with Arbonne ???

Stay on topic, RealName or I'll start censoring or removing your posts

Originally Posted by Realname

Not overpriced??? How can be not overpriced if here in EU you pay about 3,5 euros for a single MCfish ??? Its about 300% more than production cost!!!

I don't know how you know it's 300% over cost but if it were mlm, it would be easily be 600% over cost - that's the point.
Are you daring to say every company should only sell their products at cost? McDonalds may pay the 'lowest sales' but EVERYBODY GETS PAID AND THEY ARE NOT PAYING INTO MC DONALDS TO DO IT. They are not LOSING money to work there and walk out with more money in their pockets after a days work.
You can not justify mlm with any strawman argument. Well, no one can justify mlm period.

Arbonne = MLM

McDonalds = not MLM

Comparing the two is therefore pointless and a strawman argument.

Originally Posted by Whip

I don't know how you know it's 300% over cost but if it were mlm, it would be easily be 600% over cost - that's the point.
Are you daring to say every company should only sell their products at cost? McDonalds may pay the 'lowest sales' but EVERYBODY GETS PAID AND THEY ARE NOT PAYING INTO MC DONALDS TO DO IT. They are not LOSING money to work there and walk out with more money in their pockets after a days work.
You can not justify mlm with any strawman argument. Well, no one can justify mlm period.

Yes they get few more euros after day worked which will be wasted soon in health costs due to diseases like diabetes and obesity.... Yes many of their workers have to lunch that junky food to avoid wasting time and company saves money in food allowance...

Being not MLM does not means that company is good. Many non MLM companies are really bad for economy and society and MCdonalds is just one of them. They cause more losses than Airbonne and other MLM together because they destroy good competitors, they destroy good quality jobs and they destroy good companies who can bring more wealth for countries economies. They pay nice "bribes" to govs to allow them to keep their monopoly arround the world.

In the example I gave you above you're not forced to work for a mlm company and you pay less than 200% of production cost to buy a product from their resellers. Who want to work for a mlm should know well the risks of losing his subscription fees because if you don't sell you don't get profits!

Of course business model of non mlm and a mlm company is different but that does not mean that the price is always higher if you buy from MLM companies because its not truth. I've bought products cheaper from MLM than from non MLM competitors and vice-versa...

Originally Posted by littleroundman

Arbonne = MLM

McDonalds = not MLM

Comparing the two is therefore pointless and a strawman argument.

Yea their businesses models are totally diferent but their products are both harmful for people. I've just gave an example that there are good and bad companies in MLM and in no MLM world!!!

you keep relying on the strawman. are you actually trying to tell us that people paying into an mlm, and not making any money, are getting health care benefits from that mlm and not having to pay for them?

You have to make your case why mlm is better, not make up bullshit about how real businesses work to which you have no idea as proven by your unsubstantiated argument.

Originally Posted by Whip

you keep relying on the strawman. are you actually trying to tell us that people paying into an mlm, and not making any money, are getting health care benefits from that mlm and not having to pay for them?

You have to make your case why mlm is better, not make up bullshit about how real businesses work to which you have no idea as proven by your unsubstantiated argument.

Yes they get health care benefits because they are not forced to consume bullshit to keep their job. They have more freetime to enjoy life and pimp the mlm business is something that can be done in few hours per week

And as you know subscription pack include their products. So people who join their "money making oportunities" don't waste all their money and get at least some of their products to test. Of course the subscriptions are very expensive in some mlm companies like arbonne, herbalife, etc... and their products are not healthy as they say but that does not mean that all other mlm are the same, does it???

Originally Posted by Realname

Yes they get health care benefits because they are not forced to consume bullshit to keep their job. They have more freetime to enjoy life and pimp the mlm business is something that can be done in few hours per week

And as you know subscription pack include their products. So people who join their "money making oportunities" don't waste all their money and get at least some of their products to test. Of course the subscriptions are very expensive in some mlm companies like arbonne, herbalife, etc... and their products are not healthy as they say but that does not mean that all other mlm are the same, does it???

MLM pimps work endlessly, desperately trying to recruit more warm marks to replace the dropouts. The retention rates of reps is horrific in all MLMs. This fantasy MLM "job" turns into a full-time + nightmare very quickly for most!

MLM's Smoking Guns

MLM companies are careful to keep information on attrition rates hidden. However, a Google search for “MLM” – associated with the words “turnover” or “retention” or “attrition” – reveals a great concern about the number of participants that drop out each year. And some of the most damaging evidence of high attrition rates has come from court cases in which MLM officials have been forced to reveal data they have attempted to keep from participants, the media, and from law enforcement.

For example, according to Eric Scheibeler, author of the book Merchants of Deception, from a 2005 Quixtar (Amway) internal management report, out of 10,000 participating IBOs, only 414 remained in the business after the 5th renewal. That’s a 95.9% dropout rate in only five years for the largest of all MLMs – truly a smoking gun!

Melaleuca at one time claimed to have the highest retention rate in the MLM industry – 94.5%. But in a Texas court case, it was revealed that instead of an average attrition rate of 5.5% per year, it was 5.5% per month, for an annual dropout rate of approximately 66%! That’s a huge difference. Prepaid Legal also revealed on its annual report that half of its customers and distributors quit each year. Nu Skin and Excel Telecommunications also reported such high dropout rates. (Robert Fitzpatrick, 10 Big Lies of Multi-level Marketing).

But, hey, don't let facts ruin the fantasy for you!