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Thread: How they try to baffle you with B/S - Lifevantage Protandim

  1. #1
    littleroundman is offline Administrator
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    How they try to baffle you with B/S - Lifevantage Protandim

    The usual suspect snake oil salesmen at Lifevantage Protandim like to quote supposedly peer reviewed medical research to tout their product.

    Here's one of the most often quoted sources used by Lifevantage:

    American Heart Association Journal, Circulation Study Involving Protandim

    Looks good, doesn't it ???

    BUT,

    what happens when we take a closer look at the actual document at the American Heart Association site HERE

    Hmmnn,

    Let's ignore the fact that the document doesn't reveal the fact that the good "Dr Joe McCord", "He has been a member of the board of directors of the LifeVantage Corporation (makers of the dietary supplement Protandim) since 2006" Joe M. McCord - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Let's also ignore the tiny little fact the research in question was NOT carried out on humans, but, instead was carried out "RV function was determined in male Sprague-Dawley rats 6 weeks after surgical PAB" Yep, on RATS.What I find REALLY interesting is that the researchers didn't even use the supplement "Protandim" to carry out their testing.In fact, you'd have to read a third of the way down the document to find out:

    "An alcohol-based extract of the dietary supplement Protandim (LifeVantage Corp, Littleton, Colo) was administered intraperitoneally every other day to an additional group of SuHx rats starting on the day before SU5416 injection"


    That's right, folks.

    Not only was it an "alcohol based extract" and NOT the powder which is available to Lifevantage customer, it was also "administered intraperitoneally"

    What's"interperitoneally"I hear you ask ????Wikipedia knows what it is:
    "Intraperitoneal injection or IP injection is the injection of a substance into the peritoneum (body cavity). IP injection is more often applied to animals than humans. It is generally preferred when large amounts of blood replacement fluids are needed, or when low blood pressure or other problems prevent the use of a suitable blood vessel for intravenous injection. In animals, IP injection is predominantly used in veterinary medicine and animal testing for the administration of systemic drugs and fluids due to the ease of administration compared with other parenteral methods.
    In humans, the method is widely used to administer chemotherapy drugs to treat some cancers, particularly ovarian cancer. This specific use has been recommended, controversially, as a standard of care.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intraperitoneal_injection


    So:


    a) Tested on rats
    b) Not the same substance
    c) Not the same delivery method
    d) One of the testers has an undisclosed financial interest in the product
    e) Carries this warning on the website and the product: * These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.




    Take THAT ONE at your own risk
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  2. #2
    littleroundman is offline Administrator
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    Re: How they try to baffle you with B/S - Lifevantage Protandim

    One of the snakeoil salesmans' favourite tricks is to claim "clinical trials are being carried out"

    They know full well very few people will follow up and find the clinical trials, much less understand them.

    What happens if we DO check up on the so called "clinical trials" being touted by Lifevantage Protandim and its' sellers ???

    How about we check on The US Governments clinical trial listing website and see what we can find:



    What's this ???

    Only three trials,

    * one of them withdrawn,
    * one of them saying: "
    First Received on September 14, 2009. Last Updated on September 15, 2009"
    * the third still looking for recruits and saying: First Received on July 7, 2009. Last Updated on July 8, 2009

    Hmmn,

    One could almost be tempted to call B/S on the clinical trial claims, couldn't one ???
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  3. #3
    littleroundman is offline Administrator
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    Re: How they try to baffle you with B/S - Lifevantage Protandim

    WOW !!!

    Featured on the cover of "Prosper" magazine.

    Golly, gee, whillikers, they MUST be important.



    WAIT A MINUTE, what or who is "Prosper Magazine"

    Hmmn,

    here it is: Prosper

    What's this ????

    It's not a "real" magazine at all, it's a pay-to-be-featured advertising rag:

    From the "Prosper Magazine" homepage:

    WELCOME


    Prosper Magazine is a quarterly magazine that focuses on home-based business solutions. Each issue highlights a different direct sales company and those who are succeeding in building their businesses. Prosper Magazine — along with its sister publication, Celebrating Women Magazine — is distributed nationally in bookstores and through the featured companies themselves.
    and from the "How to get featured" page: Prosper

    HOW TO GET FEATURED
    If you are interested in having your company highlighted in an upcoming issue of Prosper Magazine, please contact Jeanette at contact@prosperstories.com or call (800) 219-8575. Those considering direct sales trust the third-party endorsement that Prosper Magazine provides. Featured companies purchase magazines to use as a marketing tool. Magazines have a longer shelf-life than newspapers, TV, radio or online marketing.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  4. #4
    littleroundman is offline Administrator
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    Re: How they try to baffle you with B/S - Lifevantage Protandim

    Here's another one, this time from the Lifevantage Protandim page HERE where the snake-oil boys claim this study backs up their claims: 2010 Louisiana State Peer-Reviewed Study (pdf)

    However, when we check, what do we find ???

    The Louisiana State University study was actually entitled:
    Protandim attenuates intimal hyperplasia in human saphenous veins cultured ex vivo via a catalase-dependent pathway.
    And, what exactly does "ex vivo" mean in the real world ??

    Again, Wikipedia is our friend:

    Ex vivo (Latin: "out of the living") means that which takes place outside an organism. In science, ex vivo refers to experimentation or measurements done in or on tissue in an artificial environment outside the organism with the minimum alteration of natural conditions. Ex vivo conditions allow experimentation under more controlled conditions than possible in in vivo experiments (in the intact organism), at the expense of altering the "natural" environment.
    Yep,

    you got it,

    "outside the body" IOW, in the laboratory, NOT in a human or even an animal.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  5. #5
    littleroundman is offline Administrator
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    Re: How they try to baffle you with B/S - Lifevantage Protandim

    Honestly, some of these people have no shame.

    Here, the actual inventor of "Protandim Longevity" Paul Myhill explains how the infamous "Dr McCord" came to become the public face of the product:

    First, I think that because I’m not a formulary scientist (and had no formulation experience up until that point), I didn’t realize that it couldn’t be done. Big Pharma had tried and failed using synthetic approaches to get the body to up-regulate the enzymes. The nutrition industry had largely failed using supplement approaches (after all, that’s what they do) to try to get more of the enzymes into the body. Nobody had really tried (that I’m aware of) to employ a natural approach that causes your body to simply produce more of the good stuff internally. Because the core composition came from a very unlikely source – me – we initially decided to hide that fact for marketing purposes and instead rely on the impeccable background of Dr. McCord.
    Inside Protandim The Paul Myhill Interview | Blog Talk Radio

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  6. #6
    littleroundman is offline Administrator
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    Re: How they try to baffle you with B/S - Lifevantage Protandim

    Hmmn,

    chickens coming home to roost, perhaps ???
    We commenced sales of Protandim in February 2005. For the fiscal years ended June 30, 2010 and 2009, we generated revenues of $11,478,460 and $4,141,304, respectively, and incurred net losses of $11,048,328 and $9,114,634, respectively.
    Lifevantage 2010 SEC 10-K filings
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  7. #7
    littleroundman is offline Administrator
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    Re: How they try to baffle you with B/S - Lifevantage Protandim

    How about this little gem of deliberate obfuscation being bandied around by the Protandim snake-oil=sellers:

    "Antioxidant enzyme expression is known to decrease with aging, which has been theorized to contribute to age-related diseases"
    WOW !! Sounds impressive, doesn't it ???

    How about we add some emphasis to make things clearer:

    "Antioxidant enzyme expression is known to decrease with aging, which has been theorized to contribute to age-related diseases"
    Hmmn,

    changes things slightly.

    I'll tell you what, let's look at the whole document: The Role of Manganese Superoxide Dismutase in Skin Cancer

    What's this ????

    The study is NOT about Protandim, at all.

    Nope, it's a study into one of the supposed ingredients of Protandim, "The Role of Manganese Superoxide Dismutase in Skin Cancer"

    But wait !!! There's more:

    It's ANOTHER study carried out on rodents. Mice this time, not rats.

    And what is the conclusion of the study ??? (relevant emphasis added)

    8. Conclusion
    For many decades, ROS generation has been known to not only cause oxidative injury, but also act as signaling molecules that regulate cell proliferation and downstream gene expression. However, the induction of MnSOD is gaining interest as an effective novel mechanism of chemoprevention, being that it is the only antioxidant enzyme that when overexpressed suppresses tumor formation. MnSOD also has the ability to modulate multiple pathways contributing to skin carcinogenesis. Continuous efforts are currently being made to develop compounds that effectively induce MnSOD in hopes to incorporate antioxidant-based therapies into current clinical practice. Therefore, the development of various MnSOD inducers to be used during the early-onset of tumorigenesis may be a plausible modality utilized to suppress underlying mechanisms involved in carcinogenesis.
    IOW, no definite conclusion that taking Protandim is of any benefit whatsoever to humans, despite the fact the report is being widely quoted by the Protandim lads and laddesses.

    Hmmnn,

    I wonder if the reports' authors should have been more vague and introduced a few more "couldas, wouldas, shouldas, mights, maybes and perhapses" just to make sure the usual suspect snake-oilers could use the study without falling foul of the authorities.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  8. #8
    littleroundman is offline Administrator
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    Re: How they try to baffle you with B/S - Lifevantage Protandim

    Ever wondered what an "error by omission" is and why it is important ???

    Ever watched a TV courtroom drama and wondered why witnesses are required to swear "to tell the truth, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH" instead of just being told to "tell the truth"

    Here's why:

    This is a statement often used by Protandims' snake-oil-sellers.
    It's a quote from one of the studies used by the snakey boys and girls to foist their product on an unsuspecting public: The Role of Manganese Superoxide Dismutase in Skin Cancer

    One of the main contributors to disease progression is reactive oxygen species (ROS) generation. ROS is the result of incomplete reduction of oxygen within the electron transport chain. The reactive oxidants of ROS include superoxide anion (O2
    •–), singlet oxygen (O2), hydrogen peroxide (H2O2), and the hydroxyl radical (OH). Although these molecules can act as signaling molecules, they can also participate in cellular damage, such as lipid peroxidation and DNA damage that trigger altered downstream signaling and apoptotic pathways.
    Sounds good, doesn't it ???

    Now, let's see what happens if we include the whole paragraph, including the line above the snippet, which I've highlighted in red:

    Antioxidant enzyme expression is known to decrease with aging, which has been theorized to contribute to age-related diseases. One of the main contributors to disease progression is reactive oxygen species (ROS) generation. ROS is the result of incomplete reduction of oxygen within the electron transport chain. The reactive oxidants of ROS include superoxide anion (O2 •–), singlet oxygen (O2), hydrogen peroxide (H2O2), and the hydroxyl radical (OH). Although these molecules can act as signaling molecules, they can also participate in cellular damage, such as lipid peroxidation and DNA damage that trigger altered downstream signaling and apoptotic pathways.
    See what I mean ???

    Instead of being a definitive explanation of the value of Protandim, as it is presented by the oil-snakes, it is, in fact, part of an abstract explanation of why a study is taking place.

    What's more, the study is, as was previously pointed out, into ONE ingredient of Protandim.

    What a difference a single line can make.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  9. #9
    littleroundman is offline Administrator
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    Re: How they try to baffle you with B/S - Lifevantage Protandim

    I love this one.

    According to the snake-oil-kiddies,
    "In addition to anti aging, more than 20 universities and research institutes have conducted clinical studies, or are currently studying Protandim®'s effectiveness against a wide range of diseases that include: certain Cancers, Parkinsons, Alzheimers, Diabetes, Heart Disease and pulmonary hypertension (high blood pressure), Arthritis, Chronic Inflammation, Autism, Muscular Dystrophy, Vision diseases, Asthma and the list goes on"
    Don't believe me ???

    Why, it says so right here: Protandim® is not a conventional antioxidant supplement. Each Protandim® caplet contains a unique combination of phytonutrients

    Err,

    20 studies, you say ???

    20 ???

    I can find 3 on the official US government site here: Search of: protandim - List Results - ClinicalTrials.gov

    Would it be too much to ask the kids to provide a list of the other 17 "trials" so that we can all have a good laugh.........err.....read, do you think ???
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  10. #10
    littleroundman is offline Administrator
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    Re: How they try to baffle you with B/S - Lifevantage Protandim

    Come to think of it, what on earth IS a "phytonutrient" anyway ???

    Let's ask the world renowned Linus Pauling Institute, shall we ??

    Phytochemicals

    Phytochemicals can be defined, in the strictest sense, as chemicals produced by plants. However, the term is generally used to describe chemicals from plants that may affect health, but are not essential nutrients. While there is ample evidence to support the health benefits of diets rich in fruits, vegetables, legumes, whole grains and nuts, evidence that these effects are due to specific nutrients or phytochemicals is limited. Because plant-based foods are complex mixtures of bioactive compounds, information on the potential health effects of individual phytochemicals is linked to information on the health effects of foods that contain those phytochemicals.
    Linus Pauling Institute at Oregon State University

    Gee,

    not quite so impressive when it's put like that.

    Maybe THAT'S what the 20 research projects are looking into.

    NOT that Protandim works as described, but simply checking out whether all or some of Protandims' ingredients are of any benefit to humans in micro amounts.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  11. #11
    littleroundman is offline Administrator
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    Re: How they try to baffle you with B/S - Lifevantage Protandim

    Just shows ya,

    even those of us who think we are smart(asses) can be caught.

    THIS study is being offered up by the Protandim snake-oil-sellers as validation of their product.

    I've even referred to it in this Scam.com post

    It's the one entitled: "The Role of Manganese Superoxide Dismutase in Skin Cancer"

    Here I was, blindly accepting that I was reading a legitimate research document, when, what did I discover ???

    The damned thing is a "discussion paper" and it's author/s have PAID to have the article published on a site recently set up by 2 commercial publishers

    Open Access is a relatively new publication model for scholarly journals that enables immediate, worldwide, barrier-free access to the full text of research articles for the best interests of the scientific community.

    In an Open Access model, the costs of publication are met using an author-side payment, in the form of an Article Processing Charge, rather than through a subscription fee.
    Not only that,

    It's a "discussion paper" that's all

    the damned thing doesn't even have a conclusion that supports "Protandim":

    8. Conclusion
    For many decades, ROS generation has been known to not only cause oxidative injury, but also act as signaling molecules that regulate cell proliferation and downstream gene expression. However, the induction of MnSOD is gaining interest as an effective novel mechanism of chemoprevention, being that it is the only antioxidant enzyme that when overexpressed suppresses tumor formation. MnSOD also has the ability to modulate multiple pathways contributing to skin carcinogenesis. Continuous efforts are currently being made to develop compounds that effectively induce MnSOD in hopes to incorporate antioxidant-based therapies into current clinical practice. Therefore, the development of various MnSOD inducers to be used during the early-onset of tumorigenesis may be a plausible modality utilized to suppress underlying mechanisms involved in carcinogenesis.
    * It's a "DISCUSSION PAPER" and not the results of a research project

    * it's not a legitimate, peer reviewed journal,

    * it's authors PAID for it to be published

    * it doesn't support "Protandim"

    * it doesn't "support" anything, it merely poses more questions.

    How embarrassing,

    they "got" me.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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    Re: How they try to baffle you with B/S - Lifevantage Protandim

    These health and wealth MLMs go so far over the top in the claims they make. It is really frustrating that enforcement in the ol' USA is so lax. Perhaps if we blog enough it will end up on Dateline NBC and the authorites will be publicly embarassed into taking action!

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    Rider63 is offline Junior Member
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    Re: How they try to baffle you with B/S - Lifevantage Protandim

    I (gratefully) found this forum when I was researching Protandim after a brief but weird encounter with one of the sales force. I take that back. Two of the sales force. The first one, a friend, took my order. The second, a total stranger, jumped in, canceled my order, tried to convince me to go with auto-delivery (because I "probably didn't understand" that that was an option...excuse me?), felt my wrath, and backed off after a small effort to be my BFF.

    So, here's the thing...I can't find anything reasonable about the Protandim hype, yet it just rolls merrily along. My friend has never been defensive about anything in the past, but she just about smacked me with her parasol when I suggested that maybe she needed to look into this product a little. See, I bought a bottle, took the pills for three days, had a very unpleasant reaction (apparently I'm a wimp about violent, projectile diarrhea that lasts more than 24 hours), and notified her, thinking she'd want to pass along word about the problem. As I said, apparently I'm just too much of a wimp and need to be beat resoundingly for it. She did contact "the doctor" about it who told her that was to be expected since I'm probably highly toxic and needed cleaning out in a big way. I should just keep working at it and hope I don't dehydrate in the process. Not to mention washing out all the actual vitamins, prescription meds, and working supplements I pump in every day that were flowing so unceremoniously out.

    How in the world is this company surviving? I've already seen the financials (it's what I do). They should go under shortly. Dr. Joe (love that folksy touch) McCord only makes about $65K from his association with the company, which is in keeping with their poor financial record. But why has no one from the press or other loud platforms looked into this? I know for a fact that my friend is foregoing her regular meds because Protandim seems to have cured all her (very serious) ills. That's scary! Has anyone contacted the media? I can't find anything in that direction other than the original ABC news report and some sleazy Montel Williams stuff.

    Inquiring minds want to know... WTF?


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