Thread: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

Originally Posted by whiskey

does any one know exactly how long this PS ponzi has been going on and are there any estimates on when it could fail.

Even though its a ponzi I sure wouldn't mind getting a 205% return over the 180 day term of the investment.

Actually your estimate of a 205% return is way off. If you invest $1000 @ 2.15% compounded per business day (just short of nine months) your return at the end is slightly over $46,000.

Originally Posted by whiskey

The way i was thinking. if i continue to warn people away from it, any gains I am getting are coming from the people running the scheme, assuming I get out in time. Because everyone who is investing is going to invest wether i invest or not and i will always tell people its a scam. I think people who can't seem to understand that no one could pay these interest rates are just plain crazy.

The people who run the scheme "NEVER" give you "THEIR" money. It is always someone else's money. The people who run these schemes only take the money and give the member a small pittance of the money they invested daily back. It's when the end of the period comes that the real money is involved, and they will run before that happens. Remember, most of the people in PS are compounding, not taking daily payments. If this lasts until Easter I will be surprised, as that's when the big payout is due.

I guess the "believer's" at MMG can't refute my comments, so they are now putting me on ignore. As if that is going to stop me from posting.

In this it's "just too funny category" now comes this: MyriadForce/Ty kept demanding "empirical evidence" that PS is a Ponzi. Now they want "concrete proof," whatever that is supposed to be. But when asking to define "concrete proof" none is provided. But one interesting thing has happened at MMG since I began posting. There are no more this is a blessing from God, quoting Scripture or Praising Jesus for PS. Makes one wonder if Jesus is no longer blessing it?

Originally Posted by EagleOne

In this it's "just too funny category" now comes this: MyriadForce/Ty kept demanding "empirical evidence" that PS is a Ponzi. Now they want "concrete proof," whatever that is supposed to be. But when asking to define "concrete proof" none is provided. But one interesting thing has happened at MMG since I began posting. There are no more this is a blessing from God, quoting Scripture or Praising Jesus for PS. Makes one wonder if Jesus is no longer blessing it?

Your doing good work over at MMG. Most just dont care if it pays.
Writing is on the wall, the hard core shills are moving on.

Originally Posted by EagleOne

In this it's "just too funny category" now comes this: MyriadForce/Ty kept demanding "empirical evidence" that PS is a Ponzi. Now they want "concrete proof," whatever that is supposed to be. But when asking to define "concrete proof" none is provided. But one interesting thing has happened at MMG since I began posting. There are no more this is a blessing from God, quoting Scripture or Praising Jesus for PS. Makes one wonder if Jesus is no longer blessing it?

This is called - Quibbling

Thanks for posting your best shot concerning your view of SEC regulation Lynn, it helps us ask the right questions. Those that I speak with have conveyed to me that even though we are "investing", we are not purchasing a security. On the Bank Wire instructions, it is called a "Loan Agreement".

Thanks for "Investing" your time in helping us sort things out.

Originally Posted by Myriad Force

This is called - Quibbling

Thanks for posting your best shot concerning your view of SEC regulation Lynn, it helps us ask the right questions. Those that I speak with have conveyed to me that even though we are "investing", we are not purchasing a security. On the Bank Wire instructions, it is called a "Loan Agreement".

Thanks for "Investing" your time in helping us sort things out.

Are you as oblivious as you sound? This is one of the most obvious ponzi scams out there!

Originally Posted by Myriad Force

This is called - Quibbling

Thanks for posting your best shot concerning your view of SEC regulation Lynn, it helps us ask the right questions. Those that I speak with have conveyed to me that even though we are "investing", we are not purchasing a security. On the Bank Wire instructions, it is called a "Loan Agreement".

Thanks for "Investing" your time in helping us sort things out.

Give it your best shot, but you forgot to add in your post:

Thankyou Jesus for Profitable Sunrise!!!

Originally Posted by Myriad Force

This is called - Quibbling

Thanks for posting your best shot concerning your view of SEC regulation Lynn, it helps us ask the right questions. Those that I speak with have conveyed to me that even though we are "investing", we are not purchasing a security. On the Bank Wire instructions, it is called a "Loan Agreement".

Thanks for "Investing" your time in helping us sort things out.

Denial is not the river that runs in Egypt.

Be rational:
The head of PS would literally have to be the greatest financial mind of this generation to get a small % of the multi-millions owed.
Interest/fees from bridge loans will fulfill these obligations? These usury like bridge loans are for those who cant get traditional lending. They are notoriously hard to collect on. (ie why they cant get traditional loan)

Its still paying. You have months before the whippin. Dont lock your $ in long term.

Originally Posted by Myriad Force

This is called - Quibbling

Thanks for posting your best shot concerning your view of SEC regulation Lynn, it helps us ask the right questions. Those that I speak with have conveyed to me that even though we are "investing", we are not purchasing a security. On the Bank Wire instructions, it is called a "Loan Agreement".

Thanks for "Investing" your time in helping us sort things out.

Before you embarrass yourself even more trying to claim that you are not investing in PS but it is a loan, and therefore PS is not subject to be registered or licensed with the SEC because you are not investing, you might want to read the Howey Test ruling from the Supreme Court. But then we both know that you won't read it, and will post your nonsense that you are not "investing" in PS but it is a "loan" that I will immediately tear apart quoting from the Howey Test case law.

Just trying to save you some more embarrassment, but since it is coming from me you will igore it as usual.

Originally Posted by littleroundman

HeHe,

all they need to do is put the name of the Nigerian woman whose husband died and left her $120 million dollars to send to a stranger and this would be perfect.

I should not have been drinking a Coke when I opened this loan app. I about spit all over my screen when I read "MARRITAL STATUS" Funny how loans are for business use only, yet no questions about taxes, tax id, etc. Trying to look legit but exposing themselves instead.

Originally Posted by littleroundman

DAMN,

doesn't the U.S.A. have any control over its' 501(c)(3) charity organizations ????

Good Lord, people, charities promoting HYIP ponzi scams now ???

un-bloody-believable.



NJF Global Profitable Sunrise YouTube page

Well, I filled out IRS Form 13909 http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf on her and her "ministry", I invite anyone else to do the same. When you get to the part about the EIN number, to save you some digging it's 31-0747271

If you think the SEC or the Secret Service is a drag to deal with, the IRS, when they get mad, make them look like wimps.

NJF Global Group website

Originally Posted by littleroundman

NJF Global Group website

On your complaint form to the IRS, was is it that you are listing as a complaint or violation?

This NJF Global website is bizarre. Does Nanci really believe this is real? Or is she making it look so real to mislead people. This strikes right in the hearts of the Christian communities. I am certain that this is misleading countless good hardworking people down a road to financial hardship. I have seen it before many times. The funds appear to be wired out of the country which makes this very difficult to ever recover assets. I really dislike this scenario.

Originally Posted by EagleOne

Give it your best shot, but you forgot to add in your post:

Thankyou Jesus for Profitable Sunrise!!!

Originally Posted by EagleOne

Before you embarrass yourself even more trying to claim that you are not investing in PS but it is a loan, and therefore PS is not subject to be registered or licensed with the SEC because you are not investing, you might want to read the Howey Test ruling from the Supreme Court. But then we both know that you won't read it, and will post your nonsense that you are not "investing" in PS but it is a "loan" that I will immediately tear apart quoting from the Howey Test case law.

Just trying to save you some more embarrassment, but since it is coming from me you will igore it as usual.

No, I took a mildly casual look at it. But as usual, I don't trust your dimension of scrutiny. To avoid the encumbering nature of the bureacratic blenders of the unelected officials of US agenicies, Roman Novak wisely took his business elsewhere, which free men can do. The Howey Hiccup does not provide any precedent to companies registered in the United Kingdom, so I find your rebuttal, loathsome, myopic and vulgar. And I love it. When an individual deposits his money into a bank, he/she in essence is loaning his money to the bank for a rate of interest, is this a security? According to the Howey Test case, it usually involves Stocks and Bonds.

Please provide precedent that the SEC and the Howey Test Case have jurisdiction in the United Kingdom. It's just not there. Subsequently, your tenuous and conjectorious responses by you and your fellow realscam ruffians falls flat....AGAIN.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securit...W._J._Howey_Co.

Originally Posted by Myriad Force

No, I took a mildly casual look at it. But as usual, I don't trust your dimension of scrutiny. To avoid the encumbering nature of the bureacratic blenders of the unelected officials of US agenicies, Roman Novak wisely took his business elsewhere, which free men can do. The Howey Hiccup does not provide any precedent to companies registered in the United Kingdom, so I find your rebuttal, loathsome, myopic and vulgar. And I love it. When an individual deposits his money into a bank, he/she in essence is loaning his money to the bank for a rate of interest, is this a security? According to the Howey Test case, it usually involves Stocks and Bonds.

Please provide precedent that the SEC and the Howey Test Case have jurisdiction in the United Kingdom. It's just not there. Subsequently, your tenuous and conjectorious responses by you and your fellow realscam ruffians falls flat....AGAIN.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securit...W._J._Howey_Co.

Umm, to quote a phrase, "that's so wrong, it's not even wrong"

To begin with, if one were locating a business to escape US rules Britain would hardly be the place to do it, FSA Regulations are at least as cumbersome as FINRA. And regardless, US Jurisdiction attaches not from the locus of the business but from that of the customer. If you are marketing business or investment services to US Citizens anywhere, or US nationals or legal aliens on US soil, then it doesn't matter if you are in the USA or Mozambique, your business practices with those persons MUST comply with US Law.

There’s a myth out there that one can do whatever you please online and get away with it if your business is not based in the United States.

Although there are international con artists who set up multiple scams off shore and keep one step ahead of the law, many get caught and pay the price. As an Internet lawyer, I see these cases all of the time.

For example, there’s a 26-year-old guy who committed computer fraud and other crimes. He was just extradited to the United States from Estonia and will be prosecuted. If convicted, he could spend 20+ years of his life in a U.S. federal prison.

Internet Lawyer: Does U.S. Internet law apply overseas? | Internet Lawyer - Internet Attorney - Internet Law Firm Texas

Further, Howey is not the only definition of a security, it is in fact a very narrow one used in many cases because various court rulings subsequent to it have made it inarguable if it can be established. More perfectly, a security is ANY financial instrument that represents: an ownership position in a publicly-traded corporation (stock), a creditor relationship with governmental body or a corporation (bond), or rights to ownership as represented by an option. A security is a fungible, negotiable financial instrument that represents some type of financial value. The company or entity that issues the security is known as the issuer.
Securities are typically divided into debt securities and equities. A debt security is a type of security that represents money that is borrowed that must be repaid, with terms that define the amount borrowed, interest rate and maturity/renewal date. Debt securities include government and corporate bonds, certificates of deposit (CDs), preferred stock and collateralized securities (such as CDOs and CMOs).

Equities represent ownership interest held by shareholders in a corporation, such as a stock. Unlike holders of debt securities who generally receive only interest and the repayment of the principal, holders of equity securities are able to profit from capital gains.

Internet fraudsters, and more importantly shills in their programs never cease to amaze me in that they're willing to give obvious absurdities the same weight as likely truths when they demand "empirical evidence" or proclaim that a program is "innocent until proven a scam". Were I standing on top of a building with a tire iron, these people would demand proof that if I tossed it over the side it would fall to the ground. Most uninterested , rational and intelligent people would accept the assumption that it would. Especially if demanding proof would also put them on the ground under it while the test was being conducted.

Now yes, any high school physics student could indeed do a proof that would reasonably accurately predict not only that it would hit the ground but also where it would land and how long the journey would take. Again, unless you needed practice with your maths, it would seem a waste of time. But it's also safe to say that normal people who observe some others arguing that the tire iron is going to take flight might think them, well, idiots. That, or they might have some interest in the outcome.

As should be obvious, I'll accept that when I toss the tire iron, it's gonna fall, but if you insist on proof, I'll happily show you, just go stand down there...

Originally Posted by Gregg

Umm, to quote a phrase, "that's so wrong, it's not even wrong"

To begin with, if one were locating a business to escape US rules Britain would hardly be the place to do it, FSA Regulations are at least as cumbersome as FINRA. And regardless, US Jurisdiction attaches not from the locus of the business but from that of the customer. If you are marketing business or investment services to US Citizens anywhere, or US nationals or legal aliens on US soil, then it doesn't matter if you are in the USA or Mozambique, your business practices with those persons MUST comply with US Law.
Internet Lawyer: Does U.S. Internet law apply overseas? | Internet Lawyer - Internet Attorney - Internet Law Firm Texas

Further, Howey is not the only definition of a security, it is in fact a very narrow one used in many cases because various court rulings subsequent to it have made it inarguable if it can be established. More perfectly, a security is ANY financial instrument that represents: an ownership position in a publicly-traded corporation (stock), a creditor relationship with governmental body or a corporation (bond), or rights to ownership as represented by an option. A security is a fungible, negotiable financial instrument that represents some type of financial value. The company or entity that issues the security is known as the issuer.
Securities are typically divided into debt securities and equities. A debt security is a type of security that represents money that is borrowed that must be repaid, with terms that define the amount borrowed, interest rate and maturity/renewal date. Debt securities include government and corporate bonds, certificates of deposit (CDs), preferred stock and collateralized securities (such as CDOs and CMOs).

Equities represent ownership interest held by shareholders in a corporation, such as a stock. Unlike holders of debt securities who generally receive only interest and the repayment of the principal, holders of equity securities are able to profit from capital gains.

Internet fraudsters, and more importantly shills in their programs never cease to amaze me in that they're willing to give obvious absurdities the same weight as likely truths when they demand "empirical evidence" or proclaim that a program is "innocent until proven a scam". Were I standing on top of a building with a tire iron, these people would demand proof that if I tossed it over the side it would fall to the ground. Most uninterested , rational and intelligent people would accept the assumption that it would. Especially if demanding proof would also put them on the ground under it while the test was being conducted.

Now yes, any high school physics student could indeed do a proof that would reasonably accurately predict not only that it would hit the ground but also where it would land and how long the journey would take. Again, unless you needed practice with your maths, it would seem a waste of time. But it's also safe to say that normal people who observe some others arguing that the tire iron is going to take flight might think them, well, idiots. That, or they might have some interest in the outcome.

As should be obvious, I'll accept that when I toss the tire iron, it's gonna fall, but if you insist on proof, I'll happily show you, just go stand down there...

Great post, but way too complicated for Myriad Force/Ty to understand. He can only handle: See Dick. See Jane. See Spot. See Dick, Jane and Spot. See Dick, Jane and Spot run.

Following the old adage "give a person enough rope he will hang himself" philosophy, it has been fun watching and reading MyriadForce/Ty rant about wanting empirical evidence, we don't know what we are talking about, and all of his other claims. I guess he didn't think I would know about his post at MMG back in December. Here is what he had to say in the MMG thread for PS, and I quote:

myriadforce Dec 16 2012, 07:02 PM Post#3239 MMG

If Profitable Sunrise is not an HYIP, what is it? You are telling us this is not a High Yield Investment Program? If Roman really is doing bridge financing, how long will he be able to sustain it? No financial institution is going to breach confidentiality by disclosing the loans done for its clientele. At the same time, once they reach 1.5 billion cap, will Roman be able to pay out 2% compounded daily? That is alot of short-term loans to keep going.

Puts a whole new spin on his posts doesn't it. So at MMG he posted the above on 12-16, and posted here for the first time on 12-22 and was talking about how he gets paid on time every time. Talk about an "immaculate conversion." It seems that after meeting Nanci Jo Frazer he saw the "light" and became a true believer.

Originally Posted by Former Player

This NJF Global website is bizarre. Does Nanci really believe this is real? Or is she making it look so real to mislead people. This strikes right in the hearts of the Christian communities. I am certain that this is misleading countless good hardworking people down a road to financial hardship. I have seen it before many times. The funds appear to be wired out of the country which makes this very difficult to ever recover assets. I really dislike this scenario.

I agree. There is a leaving the country before they kick in the door quality to this.
This Nanci is either very, very clueless or evil.

Her problem is she is also promoting ProfitClicking. She might have gotten away with being duped about PS, but not when she is also promoting PC. Besides, ignorance is no defense in a court of law. Someone in her position is bound to and required to do a thorough due diligence. I can't understand where her board was on this, and now they are just as guilty as her. I know there are only 3 people that I have seen listed on the board, including her, but that still is no excuse.

I think the IRS is going to be all over her on this and her mininstries are going down. I also think her ministries are not what they appear to be based on some other reports, but more digging needs to be done to say for sure one way or the other.

The real question is does she really have over 19,700 people in her group and over $11 Million dollars invested in PS. I wouldn't be surprised, but since the source is unreliable, hard to say for sure.

Her board is just as dirty as she is from what I can find.

One of her activities for the "charity" was a fund raising scheme where people bought life insurance (and they pocketed the commission on the sale), made the FUMI 50% beneficiary on the policy so if they died she got a payday. I spent an hour looking at it last night, the pitch I looked at was aimed at church leaders to sign up the whole congregation and she'd share the sales commission with them, too!

Lynn, are the budgets, tax returns etc... of a 501(3) C corp public, available online? I'd love to see who might be drawing a salary, if she's charging the fund rent for running it out of her home etc...

As to the size of her downline, much of her material is indeed aimed at church leaders and often as a way for them to keep a cut for the church. That's a powerful lure to pastors, even the ones who didn't learn about stewardship from some "prosperity gospel" source.

Originally Posted by EagleOne

Her problem is she is also promoting ProfitClicking. She might have gotten away with being duped about PS, but not when she is also promoting PC. Besides, ignorance is no defense in a court of law.

Via facebook, Ive assembled solid contact information on USA based scammers who promote PC still knowing it doesnt pay. April 16th it all goes to the IRS. (most in PC long time so 2011 failure to declare on taxes is enough)

Included are the truly obnoxious, lowlife mods (any with self respect are long gone) and the PC bullies who browbeat anyone who dares ? PC in the various FB pages.
I have tons of screenshots of them bragging about how much $ they made.

I've added this grevious angel Nanci to the list.

No worry if they followed US tax code. 99% wont and what comes around goes around.