Thread: Trivita Involved in Unethical Practices / Products with Dangerous Amounts of Lead???

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From: MySpamMail10@aol.com
Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 09:01:57 -0400
Subject: Wserra on Quatloos
To: soapboxmom@hotmail.com


Hi Soapboxmom,

Kermit The Frog here from scam.com.

Could you please contact Wserra on Qoatloos for me? I have signed up on Quatloos but apparently need to be approved (who know how long that takes).

I want his legal expertise on this thread at Scam.com:

http://scam.com/showthread.php?t=138378&page=3

Bless you,

Kermit The Frog
__________________________________________________ _____________________________
From: MySpamMail10@aol.com
Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 08:39:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Wserra on Quatloos
To: soapboxmom@hotmail.com

Hi Soapboxmom,

Thank you. I was able to PM Wserra on Quatloos and wserra was kind enough to respond on the thread. WSERRA offers incredible insight

In truth. I wouldn't waste your time posting a thread like this on Realscam. (even if you did it would have been my idea). Realscam is a joke site. I have only been there a handful of times the past year and so far since January the greatest thread I have found of interest is "Talkgold mods on a banning spree" thread. Realscam is like watching Fox News there biased and one sided. I prefer to watch CNN where at least everyone is free to voice their opinion.

Your sleazy website will never take off without controversy. It's a joke.

Bless you,

Kermit The Frog

__________________________________________________ __________________
Wserra offered incredible insight and great information, but Scam.com's owner is at it again deleting vital and informative threads. George Dranichak sure made that thread disappear with lightening speed once there was some intelligent commentary. That forum is controlled by the scammers. There is no point in posting anything as chances are quite good the porn spammer owner will remove it.

Soapboxmom

05-25-2011, 10:44 AM
wserra
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 46



Re: What is your favorite MLM signature line on sc
Alright, as requested, the short course on supplements, the FDA and Nopalea. Please note that, while I am a lawyer, this is not my field. However, what I write here is little more than general knowledge.

The FDA divides claims made for foods and dietary supplements into three broad types: health claims, nutrient content claims, and structure/function claims. Health claims are those which relate some property of the food/supplement to a specific disease or condition. Nutrient content claims are those that describe the level of a nutrient a food or supplement contains, either in numbers or in terms such as "high", "low" or "free". Finally, structure/function claims are those that characterize the role a nutrient plays in maintaining the normal function of a human organ or process - "your thyroid needs iodine" or "calcium is necessary for strong bones". There is a body of law for each type of claim. A supplement must comply with the regulations for the type of claim(s) it makes.

So: what claims does Trivita make?
Quote:
Relieving pain
Improving breathing
Reducing swelling in joints and muscles
And then later:
Quote:
Reduce inflammation
Detoxify
Achieve optimal cellular health
Protect against premature aging
"Improving breathing", "detoxify", "cellular health" and "premature aging" are so general as not to be medical terms - and also, of course, so as to be meaningless. As far as the law (and medicine) are concerned, they mean nothing more than "it makes you feel good". Say them all you want, guys - but be aware that people with IQs above room temperature will recognize them as the same nonsense claims as are made for "Dr. Feelgood's Traveling Medicine Show".

"Relieving pain" and "reducing inflammation" are more problematic. I am sure Trivita would claim that, since they don't mention any specific disease, they are not "health claims" - but that's not clear, especially as to the "reducing inflammation ... swelling in joints and muscles". The FDA recognizes a subclass of health claim it calls "implied disease claims" - claims that, even if they don't mention a specific disease, uses wording so closely associated with a disease that they might as well name it. The FDA cites as an example "improves joint mobility and reduces joint inflammation and pain" as such a claim, because it so closely describes the symptoms of arthritis. That's pretty damn close to what Trivita does. Health claims are strictly regulated, and Trivita's claims don't fall within what the FDA permits.

Even if not health claims, Trivita's claims regarding inflammation and pain relief are clearly "structure/function" claims. Structure/function claims must be (1) accurate, (2) not misleading and (3) must contain the familiar "not tested by the FDA - not meant for treatment of disease" disclaimer. As to accuracy and misleading - who knows? There is nothing I see on Nopalea's page that indicates any testing of Nopalea at all. The studies on their "research" tab are generic antioxidant. I am amused by the "Read more: Full Story on Inflammation", "Nopalea’s amazing Betalains" and "Nopalea’s phenomenal health benefits" links - they all link to the same page, the page they're already on. These guys must really take their users for morons. And the FDA disclaimer is nowhere to be found - it's not on the page where they make the claims, should be, and I'm not going to search their site.

As far as the sole ingredient they list - betalains are compounds similar to those that make beets red - hence the name. Are they antioxidants? Sure - like a million other things. Anything special about them? Nope. See for yourself, run "betalains" through PubMed, the NIH's huge database of tens of thousands of medical journal articles. Speaking of PubMed, Trivita claims that it (they call it the "NIH database") has 287 articles on nopal. Run it yourself - just click - you'll get 37. And they don't tell you of the contents of the papers like this one: "Recent publications have also highlighted the unintended consequences of herbal product use, including morbidity and mortality. It has been found that many phytochemicals have pharmacokinetic or pharmacodynamic interactions with drugs".

In sum: Trivita's compliance with FDA regs is quite problematic. They may well be making health claims without complying with the regulations for such. Even if not, they clearly make structure/function claims without support as to accuracy, and which are likely misleading and lack the required disclaimer. Yet another really expensive "wellness" jungle juice like a million others, however, so it's not likely anyone will care.




__________________

05-25-2011, 03:49 PM
iamwil
tired of swimming with sewage
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,603



Re: What is your favorite MLM signature line on sc
Quote:

Originally Posted by wserra
If Trivita wants you to look up the Latin name at PubMed, perhaps they might say that, instead of "To date, 287 scientific papers have been published on the benefits and attributes of Nopal".

And - while I've seen this before in MLMs touting their nostrums - I don't understand the significance of the number of hits one gets on a search of PubMed. A PubMed search on "cyanide" yields 37,771 hits. By your logic, that means that cyanide must be some 130 times better for you than Nopalea.



In the abstract to which I already linked: "We discuss the cultural uses, phytochemistry, pharmacological, and toxicological properties of the following plant species: nopal (Opuntia ficus) . . ."

If 287, 37 or 347 are insignificant numbers of research pages regarding the various studies on a product, then there is no use arguing. I like the cyanide reference that is nice.

I also noted the variety of things they said they researched, but still have found nowhere where they referenced mortality to nopal, if you have that it would be interesting to find what and how they are talking about.

I mean we all know people drown in water on a regular basis, that doesn't warrant taking it off our grocery store shelves.

Originally Posted by Soapboxmom

05-25-2011, 03:49 PM
iamwil
tired of swimming with sewage
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,603



Re: What is your favorite MLM signature line on sc
Quote:

If 287, 37 or 347 are insignificant numbers of research pages regarding the various studies on a product, then there is no use arguing. I like the cyanide reference that is nice.

I also noted the variety of things they said they researched, but still have found nowhere where they referenced mortality to nopal, if you have that it would be interesting to find what and how they are talking about.

I mean we all know people drown in water on a regular basis, that doesn't warrant taking it off our grocery store shelves.

Whoa, wait a sec...! Since water is the leading cause of drowning, shouldn't it be regulated or banned...? Or maybe go the tobacco route and just tax it heavily...!

Iamwil seems to be trying very hard not to talk about the lead!!!!

http://proposition65.doj.ca.gov/PDF/2011/2011-00204.pdf

Trivita's Leanology 180 Capsules, Leanology Nutritional Shake Chocolate (908g) and Leanology Appetite Control Chews Chocolate Mocha 60 Soft Chews all contain cancer causing lead in amounts exceeding allowable limits in violation of California Health & Safety Code 25249.5 et seq.

Soapboxmom

Thanks, SBM. That was pretty incredible.

As the above posts show, some "Kermit the Frog" contacted me on Quatloos and asked that I comment on certain FDA legal issues that were being discussed in a scam.com thread on a jungle juice called "Nopalea", from MLM Trivita. I had not posted there in some time - I have had multiple posts deleted there in the past. I thought I would try one more time. In checking out Trivita, BTW, I saw the reports on lead, but didn't comment on them for a few reasons - they're not about Nopalea, they don't include any actual lab reports, and I have my doubts about the source.

So anyway, I wrote about my impressions as to the claims Trivita made for its very expensive nostrum. As I try to do, I included a general overview of the area of law for those not familiar with it - in this case, FDA regulation of supplements under DSHEA. Most people are not familiar with this fairly arcane stuff, and those who run scam.com seem not to be "most people" anyway.

I don't think the thread lasted 48 hours after that post. SBM (or anyone else who reads that board) - did anyone try to dispute anything I said before the thread disappeared?

I can't imagine why anyone would try to post anything requiring thought there. Somebody doesn't like it, it goes.

BTW, if anyone on this board wants to run something involving the law past me - for all I know, you have a source here, making it unnecessary - PM me on Quatloos. I may not be able to respond right away, but I'll respond.

Happy Memorial Day, to my US friends here. Happy Queen's Birthday, Aussies.

Wserra,

I took the liberty of e-mailing the lawyer that is responsible for those claims of high lead in certain Trivita products. He has yet to respond. But, there is more interesting news:

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/G.../ucm056964.pdf

Soapboxmom

Interesting that thread has vanished like so many on Scam.com. Also funny that IM WILL is back to "Swimming with Sewage" LOL