Thread: True Vision Global - using religion!

He uses this FB for his TVG propaganda.

https://www.facebook.com/charlesandr...05148737297550

A payout tomorrow..

"I anticipate the inevitable, supernatural intervention of God!
I expect a miracle! I expect a miracle! I expect a miracle!"

Different style program but the responses remind me of those made of Profitable Sunrise.

NikSam, your first attachment appears to be corrupted and unreadable.

Let's have a little look at "Team Tsunami" shall we ???



Team Tsunami plan.com

If we check out Team Tsunamis' recommendations, It appears Mr Andrade is not as clever or charitable as he would like us to believe



On BEHINDMLM.com we find a review of Xplocial entitled Xplocial Review: $29 – $100 a month cash gifting



Penny Matrix on the MMG HYIP ponzi forum



Also from BEHINDMLM.com comes a review entitled Penny Matrix Review: God & $7/month membership

Which concludes:

Originally Posted by BehindMLM.com

Conclusion



Penny Matrix pays out 100% of its commissions out of membership fees. Along with the fact that no retail products are marketed or sellable by company affiliates, this equates to Penny Matrix fitting the definition of a pyramid scheme.

And with the company keeping half the income possible via recruitment into an affiliate’s matrix, not even a marketable pyramid scheme at that.

New members rely on recruitment in order to earn commissions and those already in the company rely on new and existing members to continue to pay their monthly memberships in order to get paid.

If members stop paying their monthly membership fees, nobody gets paid and the entire scheme falls apart.

An argument could be made that the ebook side of things legitimises the Penny Matrix opportunity, however with commissions not dependent on the sale of ebooks and ebooks not being available at a retail level, the ebook side of Penny Matrix serves as nothing more than a token inclusion to attempt to legitimise what is quite obviously a recruitment dependent pyramid scheme.

Or as Mike Dodd described it just last Monday on Facebook, a ‘tell 2 friends that tell 2 friends thingy‘.

As for AdExperts, not a lot needs to be said really, does it ??

Originally Posted by ProfHenryHiggins

NikSam, your first attachment appears to be corrupted and unreadable.

Do not know why it does it.


Here it is:
TVG_7charge.jpg

Lois. please share with us which regulatory bodies you got approval from, perhaps we need to have a chat with those.

And please do not tell us that your only regulator is God.

TVG_regulator.jpg

Originally Posted by NikSam

Lois. please share with us which regulatory bodies you got approval from, perhaps we need to have a chat with those.

And please do not tell us that your only regulator is God.

Amen to that NikSam.

Originally Posted by Fat City, LA

He uses this FB for his TVG propaganda.

"I anticipate the inevitable, supernatural intervention of God!
I expect a miracle! I expect a miracle! I expect a miracle!"

Millions of people use Facebook to promote, so they all must be evil right? What makes something propaganda instead of publicity? Do you just arbitrarily decide?

This person expresses faith - is that wrong? Better arrest the 1.5 billion Christians, not mention Muslims, Jews, etc.

Personally, I oppose the "Prosperity Gospel" vehemently, but there is nothing wrong with praying for and expecting a miracle, or in public confessions of faith.

Where is the evidence of a crime or scam here?

Gustavo Zaldivar on IboSocial

Let's take a closer look at Gustavos' immediate past, shall we ??



From BEHINDMLM.com comes Solavei to work through bankruptcy



Gustavo Zaldivars' gustavo member page on HipCo Inc / InternetEvolving.com



The web address of Gustavo Zaldivars' Gustavo AdRevWorld website



OOPS !! Another HYIP ponzi down the drain



The PennyMatrix thread on the MMG HYIP ponzi forum

Originally Posted by NikSam

Lois. please share with us which regulatory bodies you got approval from, perhaps we need to have a chat with those.

And please do not tell us that your only regulator is God.

TVG_regulator.jpg

Actually, since you are the one bringing allegations, the onus is on you to prove that TVG connect has not met the approval of regulatory bodies. Do you have proof of that, or are you still making wild accusations?

Originally Posted by littleroundman

littleroundman thank you for posting this. So what you are alleging is that he is a crook because he is into marketing? Is marketing an illegal activity, or is it unethical? My understanding is that people can make an honest living as marketers, and that most major companies with an Internet presence have some sort of affiliate marketing plan. Granted, there are also a great many "scam" operations out there, run by crooks. However, that doesn't mean you can "tar everyone with the same brush", some are legitimate, some are illegitimate.

So how does one decide if a particular marketing system is illegal or unethical? Even if it turns out to be, does that mean that everyone who participated in it are crooks. I would think that the vast majority are just people trying to make some honest money marketing from home.

Again, I'm not here to defend TVG or it's owners. If they are crooks, so be it, I will join you in denouncing them. However, I have yet to see anything that disagrees with the image they present. What would be wrong with people who have been through various "dog eat dog" marketing systems, with all the baggage that entails, using their experience and talents to create a different sort of MLM system, one that will accomplish good in the world? A MLM that funds humanitarian work - what is wrong with that?

Now the point at which there may be a problem, and which may prove you right, is in the structure and product. I don't know much about MLM in general, or TVG in particular, but I haven't seen a substantive product yet. I see that it costs money to join, but other than the potential to make money convincing others to join, I don't see anything of real value.

I don't know enough about what they offer to speculate. I know they talk about the backing of companies and physical products plus services. What exactly (of value) you get for your membership dues is unclear to me. This, if anything, will be the deciding factor for me.

However, that the founder have a past history in marketing (in my mind) just makes them experienced and more competent to run this type of company. If their humanitarian effort is legitimate, that is an asset not a liability. On the other hand, if they are crooks, it will help them to be successful ones.

The question (for me) is, how does one determine if this is a legitimate humanitarian effort, or just another scam. The answer (for me) lies in the present structure and product, in what value is given to members - other than the ability to make money by recruiting new members. I think if your research efforts were focused there, it would conclusively end this discussion one way or the other. Again, I would be the first to thank you should you turn up something convincing.

you are not getting your money back. lol

Whats more likely...

A bunch of mlm types (who work money games that run out of steam once the suckers run thin) will change the world... (Helping to end world hunger, etc)

Or

Its just another $ game with monthly and/or membership comprising majority of income targeted at Christian types...

They mention advertising...Advertising is the current pyramid/ponzi keyword of the moment. (along with Bit Currency)

You need to make your own choices.
Based on your continued circular logic in your posts, whomever bought you your membership thinks your an easy mark.

Apologies, I had meant to reply yesterday, but decided to go take candy from this baby!

Taking Candy From A Baby.JPG

Instead of ranting and raging on this thread, how about go back to any of the 2890 threads that are here and find the incidents where as a collective the group was wrong. In reading, you may actually learn something about how scams operate.

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

The critical question for the FTC is whether the revenues that primarily support the commissions paid to all participants are generated from purchases of goods and services that are not simply incidental to the purchase of the right to participate in a money-making venture. Kohm, James A. "RE: Staff Advisory Opinion - Pyramid Scheme Analysis" Federal Trade Commission.

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

I haven't seen a substantive product yet. I see that it costs money to join, but other than the potential to make money convincing others to join, I don't see anything of real value.

I don't know enough about what they offer to speculate. I know they talk about the backing of companies and physical products plus services. What exactly (of value) you get for your membership dues is unclear to me. This, if anything, will be the deciding factor for me.

It sounds like you answered your own question. If you toss money at every Pig in a poke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia first and look for a product/service later your precious orphans will starve for sure.

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

I don't have anything invested in them, but I do have a stake in this issue.

YES, that is obvious and sorry for the loss of your friend's money.

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

I want to feed orphans, and they believe this may help me to do that. If it can't, I want to know. If it can, I want to feel good about being associated with something that is not only legal, but ethical and a force for good in the world.

Then I would suggest you find a well run charity and not have your money strained through 99 levels of pious greed.

Before Giving to a Charity | Consumer Information

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

The problem I have is that it's your word against theirs. I have no more reason to believe what you say, than to believe what they say. So, until I see some convincing evidence (one way or the other), I remain undecided.

Did anyone mention going back six months or a year and reading a few of the threads? Almost like reading tomorrow's news today.

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

littleroundman on your FTC Charity Warning page I don't see anywhere on there that TVG-Connect is a scam. It is also not a charity, it is a for profit company. Therefore, that page is meaningless to this topic so why post it here?

Funny, the same thing came to my mind about this link, loathing to be outdone I posted it twice. If you want to give to orphans as you claim then donate your time and/or money to the most efficient organizations out there. Unless you think all the starving children in the world will somehow be better served by showing them how to make U-Tube videos and spamming affiliate links.

Before Giving to a Charity | Consumer Information

You may actually find that people who carve out part of their time to warn others away from scams might be a bit more generous in ALL areas of life than the phonies who wave the bible with one hand while grabbing for your wallet with the other.

Originally Posted by Whip

you are not getting your money back. lol

Hi Whip - perhaps that's true, but since I didn't give them any money, why would I want money back?

You are absolutely in this. That's why you are here to defend it - in hopes of getting your money back. Otherwise, there is no other defense for a bunch of known, proven scammers.

Originally Posted by ribshaw

Instead of ranting and raging on this thread, how about go back to any of the 2890 threads that are here and find the incidents where as a collective the group was wrong. In reading, you may actually learn something about how scams operate.

Ranting and raving? It seems to me that it is the regular members here that have a penchant for that. Never wrong? I'm sure this group is always right, since no evidence is required to determine whether they are right or not. Conjecture and speculation is no substitute for evidence and truth.

Originally Posted by ribshaw

It sounds like you answered your own question. If you toss money at every Pig in a poke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia first and look for a product/service later your precious orphans will starve for sure.

Actually, I am unclear of what TVG connect provides of value, not because it's necessarily a "pig in a poke" but because I have been too busy to look into it. That could actually be quite well defined.

Originally Posted by ribshaw

YES, that is obvious and sorry for the loss of your friend's money.

Thanks for the sentiment, I'm just not convinced it's lost yet.

Originally Posted by ribshaw

Then I would suggest you find a well run charity and not have your money strained through 99 levels of pious greed.

Before Giving to a Charity | Consumer Information

Actually, I do volunteer work for a 501(c)(3) that feeds orphans. We are looking at this, to decide whether it's a legitimate funding source or not. It is cynical to assume everyone involved in marketing is driven by greed. I would venture to say a great many are, but that's all the more reason to appreciate marketers who are interested in humanitarian work.

Originally Posted by ribshaw

Did anyone mention going back six months or a year and reading a few of the threads? Almost like reading tomorrow's news today.

How about staying on topic. Can anyone provide any substantial evidence against TVG in THIS thread? It's time consuming enough to keep up with the posts here, and none have been anything but cynical, skeptical rants, based on speculation. Why go back in time looking for more of the same?

Originally Posted by ribshaw

Funny, the same thing came to my mind about this link, loathing to be outdone I posted it twice. If you want to give to orphans as you claim then donate your time and/or money to the most efficient organizations out there. Unless you think all the starving children in the world will somehow be better served by showing them how to make U-Tube videos and spamming affiliate links.

Before Giving to a Charity | Consumer Information

That link does not belong here since we are talking about a for profit company, not a charity. I volunteer for a legitimate charity and we are wondering if this company can provide us with a desperately needed funding source.

Originally Posted by ribshaw

You may actually find that people who carve out part of their time to warn others away from scams might be a bit more generous in ALL areas of life than the phonies who wave the bible with one hand while grabbing for your wallet with the other.

No one said you were ungenerous, and I agree that it's a very useful and noble service to warn people away from scams (when they are actually scams). In fact, since I don't have the time or the skills to make such a determination, I am hoping this thread will provide a definitive verdict in the case of TVG.

If they are a scam, and you save me from their clutches, I will be the first to thank you. However, damaging a company on a humanitarian mission, with unfounded malicious accusations, is neither noble or generous. I would hope that some proper evidence be established before you condemn them.

Originally Posted by Whip

You are absolutely in this. That's why you are here to defend it - in hopes of getting your money back. Otherwise, there is no other defense for a bunch of known, proven scammers.

Hi Whip, as I already explained numerous times, someone bought me a lifetime membership hoping it would help me feed the orphans I am trying to fund. They invested money - I didn't.

I haven't decided yet whether it's a good idea to attempt to fund our orphans through TVG or not, because if they are some type of scam I don't want to be associated with them, and I certainly don't want the 501(c)(3) I'm volunteering for, to be associated with them.

So, instead of just taking "potshots", could you please stay on topic. Serious allegations have been made here against TVG. I would like to know if they are based in fact, or just the idle speculations of cynics and cranks. Unless someone presents some verifiable evidence, I'm leaning toward the later.

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

In fact, since I don't have the time or the skills to make such a determination, I am hoping this thread will provide a definitive verdict in the case of TVG.

For someone that doesn't have a lot of time, you sure seem to have a lot of time.

On the off chance that someone I can take seriously shows up. I mentioned going back to read older threads because ALL scams work in some variation of the same way. INCLUDING HAVING SOME "NEUTRAL" THIRD PARTY SHOW UP AND QUESTION OR DEMAND PROOFS. Then you will confirm that yes in fact the people who post here are right and do know what they are doing. By the time your pretend charity "figures this out" any money pumped in will have been lost.

If you are not willing to make the slightest effort on your part to figure out why this is a scam and want us to spoon feed you like an orphan then you are in the wrong place.

Get their financial statements, contracts with vendors, legal disclosures, copies of licenses in the jurisdictions where they claim to be doing business and upload them for us to analyze.

Then we will have something to talk about, until then this is a scam and your money gone gone gone.

Bye Bye Money.JPG

Good, we're all agreed then,

we're all cynics and cranks.

CYA, Voice of Reason

Good luck with your donations.

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

Actually, since you are the one bringing allegations, the onus is on you to prove that TVG connect has not met the approval of regulatory bodies. Do you have proof of that, or are you still making wild accusations?

Ha ha, do you even realize how you sound ?

I did not say they did not , i asked which.

And who they call regulator bodies. Is it gambling board, gospel herecy regulator , christian lunatics regulator or who ?

RealScam is also a regulator of some kind :)


Maybe they did get a fishing permit, i did not say they did not.

Originally Posted by ribshaw

Get their financial statements, contracts with vendors, legal disclosures, copies of licenses in the jurisdictions where they claim to be doing business and upload them for us to analyze.

You make wild accusations without any evidence and if someone questions your claims it is up to them to supply evidence? Right - thanks for clearing that up for me. Please don't waste anymore of my time.

Originally Posted by NikSam

Ha ha, do you even realize how you sound ?

I did not say they did not , i asked which.

And who they call regulator bodies. Is it gambling board, gospel herecy regulator , christian lunatics regulator or who ?

RealScam is also a regulator of some kind :)


Maybe they did get a fishing permit, i did not say they did not.

Not worthy of a response...

Originally Posted by littleroundman

Good, we're all agreed then,

we're all cynics and cranks.

CYA, Voice of Reason

Good luck with your donations.

I am giving you a chance to prove your claims. I would just like to see some evidence of impropriety, rather than malicious innuendo and baseless accusations.

However, if you wish to surmise and and put forward ugly conjecture about the people at TVG, I don't see how you can be offended if someone draws some conclusions about you and the people here.

Turnabout is fair play, is it not?

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

Actually, since you are the one bringing allegations, the onus is on you to prove that TVG connect has not met the approval of regulatory bodies. Do you have proof of that, or are you still making wild accusations?

No it is not our job to "PROVE" TVG has not met the approval of regulatory bodies. It is TVG's responsibility to "PROVE" they have met the approval of regulatory bodies. Further it is TVG's responsibility to "PROVE" they are legal business, not ours. The fact we point out they aren't is your "PROOF" you are seeking. I am just waiting for you to say "They are innocent until proven guilty."

Are you aware that TVG must be registered to do business in every country where they are doing business? In Canada that means all the Provinces, in the US it means all 50 states, and the same would apply to any other country that has states/provinces within their nation.

If I were you I would be asking the people behind this why their domain name registration is hidden. They are using WHOISGUARD protection out of Panama. What do they have to hide? Want to guess what percentage of real businesses to Ponzi's/ illegal pyramid schemes have their domain registration hidden/protected?

I watched the video of the promotion of this program explaining the program and it was interesting that this program is going to end world hunger and poverty. I guess this means that all the nonprofits that are currently doing these things need to shut their doors immediately, and need to get on board this great program because they have failed to end world hunger and poverty. Only TVG will be capable of doing this, right? Well, that is what they said. Of course they said a lot of things that had me truly chuckling as they contradicted themselves numerous times.

Now what is still confusing to me is this: Is this program a MLM program or not? If it is a MLM program, then the members who are involved in this must have 51% of their income come from retail sales, meaning customers not people in your upline or downline, but real customers. So this program is an epic fail just on this fact alone if it truly is promoting itself as a MLM. From all appearances this is nothing more than an endless recruiting scheme which by definition by the FTC is an illegal pyramid scheme.

It will be interesting to see Lois post all the countries that TVG is approved by the regulatory bodies. Wanna bet she just says they are and does not show any? Of course it would help to know what company name they are using since they keep jumping all around between True Vision Global and TVG Connect. Yes I am aware that TVG Connect is the marketing arm of TVG the parent company. Still at this time neither is registered to do business anywhere.

I just find it is interesting that first we had digitalincome here defending this and now you. I wonder who is going to show up next? You should also remember the old adage: You are known by the company you keep. With the likes of Ken Russo and other major Ponzi pimps promoting this program, and the founders all being involved in other illegal pyramid schemes, it is not a quantum leap to predict this is no different than all the others they ran before this that went belly up. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it is a duck.

Toss in the claiming this is blessed by God and it is just another massive affinity fraud being perpetrated on the Christian community. Sadly there are too many Christians who will fall for all this BS and it is all BS.

Originally Posted by NikSam

Amazing amount of likes on TVG Facebook page for some fake charity/ money scheme who has Boy Scouts , Girls Scouts, American Express, UNICEF, 70k church leaders on board and reaches 200 countries :)

Attachment 8530


Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/True-Vision-Global

Ha–Ha, the scammers are reading, the page was deleted :)