Thread: True Vision Global - using religion!

Originally Posted by EagleOne

...
I wonder who is going to show up next? ....

Please, please. Let it be Louis the lunatic.
Now i just have a professional interest. I would suspect a progressing schizophrenia, but need to talk with her more for diagnosis.

Originally Posted by NikSam

Amazing amount of likes on TVG Facebook page for some fake charity/ money scheme who has Boy Scouts , Girls Scouts, American Express, UNICEF, 70k church leaders on board and reaches 200 countries :)

Attachment 8530


Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/True-Vision-Global

So this program reaches 200 countries. Rather odd since there are only 196 in the world. Oops!

Originally Posted by EagleOne

So this program reaches 200 countries. Rather odd since there are only 196 in the world. Oops!

You not counting "not recognized" countries as Nothern Osetia, Novorossiya, Sealand, etc.. ;)

Originally Posted by NikSam

You not counting "not recognized" countries as Nothern Osetia, Novorossiya, Sealand, etc.. ;)

While they may not be recognized, these fools have no clue they even exist. They just made up the number trying to make it sound more impressive.

Originally Posted by ribshaw the orphan hater

Get their financial statements, contracts with vendors, legal disclosures, copies of licenses in the jurisdictions where they claim to be doing business and upload them for us to analyze.

Help was offered, you chose not to take it seriously.

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

Actually, I do volunteer work for a 501(c)(3) that feeds orphans. We are looking at this, to decide whether it's a legitimate funding source or not

Perhaps better have some of the WE show up, you seem to be the wrong person perform due diligence.

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

You make wild accusations without any evidence and if someone questions your claims it is up to them to supply evidence? Right - thanks for clearing that up for me. Please don't waste anymore of my time.

Sorry what "wild accusations"? Tell ya what VOR, show the class one time where a scheme like this has worked and the lion's share of anything ended up with the orphans.

Waste your time? You have been given several simple items to procure to protect your charity, purty simple.


True Global Religion..JPG

What a shock. No payments today=technical issues....

"Working on fixing some security and programming issues with Payment Gateway! Can't proceed until this is fixed. Will know soon we hope.
Your security is VERY important to us!!"

All "leaders" got together

Originally Posted by EagleOne

No it is not our job to "PROVE" TVG has not met the approval of regulatory bodies. It is TVG's responsibility to "PROVE" they have met the approval of regulatory bodies. Further it is TVG's responsibility to "PROVE" they are legal business, not ours. The fact we point out they aren't is your "PROOF" you are seeking....

...With the likes of Ken Russo and other major Ponzi pimps promoting this program, and the founders all being involved in other illegal pyramid schemes, it is not a quantum leap to predict this is no different than all the others they ran before this that went belly up. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it is a duck....

...Toss in the claiming this is blessed by God and it is just another massive affinity fraud being perpetrated on the Christian community. Sadly there are too many Christians who will fall for all this BS and it is all BS.

Well eagleone, I guess if TVG is not a legal business and are taking peoples money in a ponzi scheme, you should just phone the police. You should at least be able to get them for false advertising, operating a business without a license, somthing?

In fact, since you say it is run by people who were previously involved in known illegal activities, they must already be in jail and are running their current illegal operations from there.

Perhaps the reason you don't phone the police, is all you have is BS and duck quacks, instead of anything that resembles evidence to support your claims.

I wish you did have some solid evidence of impropriety, because that would settle the matter for me. I would thank-you, I really would be grateful. However, all I have seen in this thread so far is unsubstantiated allegations.

Voice of Reason seems to be operating under the illusion that any of us care whether he feels his demands are being met or that his not-so-subtle insults are having any effect.

The fact is, TVG are asking people to send them money, not REALSCAM.com

Therefore it is incumbent on TVG to be transparent, for TVG to provide the answers VoR seeks and for TVG to ensure they comply fully with any and all regulations AND inform potential donors / members of their compliance.

Voice of Reason, do you know what a "strawman" argument is ???

You should familiarize yourself with the term - you engage in them constantly and get the results strawman arguments invariably receive.

You should at least know why you and your posts are being ridiculed and treated with disdain.

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

Well eagleone, I guess if TVG is not a legal business and are taking peoples money in a ponzi scheme, you should just phone the police. You should at least be able to get them for false advertising, operating a business without a license, somthing?

In fact, since you say it is run by people who were previously involved in known illegal activities, they must already be in jail and are running their current illegal operations from there.

Perhaps the reason you don't phone the police, is all you have is BS and duck quacks, instead of anything that resembles evidence to support your claims.

I wish you did have some solid evidence of impropriety, because that would settle the matter for me. I would thank-you, I really would be grateful. However, all I have seen in this thread so far is unsubstantiated allegations.

You left out that I cannot call this an illegal pyramid scheme because the courts have not ruled it to be, or was this going to be in your next post? What is telling is what you didn't address in my post not what you did respond to in my post.

You are really new at this aren't you. For your information, what makes you think we have not reported this to the federal law enforcement agencies here, but in other countries as well?

As for the other illegal pyramid schemes the founders of this program were involved in, they didn't last long enough for any law enforcement agency to even begin an investigation. Doesn't mean they weren't an illegal pyramid scheme just because they weren't charged. You are aware that many crimes are never prosecuted, but they were still crimes. Or do you believe that because they weren't prosecuted no crime was committed?

What is truly sad is that despite all your claims about wanting to know the truth, you wouldn't believe it no matter what we post. I do hope this gets big enough for the feds and other federal worldwide law enforcement agencies to shut it down and charge the people behind this. But I doubt even if that happens you will still believe it is an illegal pyramid scheme. Then you will trot out the "innocent until proven guilty" line.

You see you really should be asking all your questions to Lois and her cohorts instead of us. Since you don't believe a word any of us has presented to you, why do you care what we have to say? As littleroundman has said, all your statements are nothing more than the strawman arguments. In short terms it is a circle jerk.

As I said in the beginning of my comments to you. We don't have to prove anything to you. It is the job of TVG to prove they are real, and so far they haven't even come close. I also noticed that you conveniently didn't mention why they hide who they are with their domain registration. This doesn't bother you, or do you believe all legal companies do this? If TVG is real, why so secretive? Also you might want to get a list of all the countries where they say they have been approved to do business. You would think Lois would at least register in her own Province don't you think?

Now would you like for me to list all the strawman arguments that people like you use to post in forums like RS? It might save you some time having to look them up to know what to post next. Always glad to be of help. By the way, is this a MLM program or not?

But I will leave you with what the SEC had to say today about their investigations, and I quote:

"In a statement today, the SEC said “new investigative approaches and the innovative use of data and analytical tools contributed to a very strong year for enforcement marked by cases that spanned the securities industry.” Noting the FY 2014 pyramid-scheme actions against the MLM or direct-sales firms included allegations that the “programs” used social media and targeted immigrant communities, the SEC said its work wasn’t done." Emphasis mine. You can also substitute "affinity" for "targeted immigrant communities."

Originally Posted by EagleOne

What is truly sad

What is really, really, really sad is, despite all the warnings that exist WRT charity fraud and all the deserving charities which exist today, Voice of Reason is so stuck on his own agenda, he would rather support as shady an operation as TVG on a matter of principle, than simply pick one of the squillion legal, legit, transparent charities which do exactly the same as TVG CLAIMS it is doing or will do at some time in the future.

Rather than guarantee his and / or his churches' money makes it into the mouths of the children who so desperately need it, Voice of Reason would rather take the risk with TVG and then try and offload the blame when the inevitable happens onto us.

Voice of Reason:

Since I want to help you, I was getting concerned that you were going to be running out of red-herring/strawman statements pretty soon and I didn't want you high and dry. So I have put together a list of statements (with typos and misspellings intact) said to us, from people just like you, when we said their program de jour was a Ponzi or an illegal pyramid scheme. Now I know you are going to be shocked to learn that EVERY program that we said from the beginning was a Ponzi or illegal pyramid scheme was in fact a Ponzi or an illegal pyramid scheme. Yes, and just like you they too claimed we didn't know what we were talking about and didn't provide any proof that satisfied their requirements.

I'm confident that these will be of help to you going forward so feel free to use them:


At this juncture, there is no empirical evidence for cynacism.

All the detractors have zero proof for their cynicism. These are mortals that are either jealous or have a pattern of thriving on cynicism.

I do not believe in listening to people who say such and such is a scam, without having lost a penny in it.

At the same time keep away for speculations and false predictions.

The people here have a tendency to rush to judgment and label everything a scam or Ponzi.

Much fun though, watching you making desperate stretches and majoring on minors.

Evidently you have not done your homework.

Are people really that envious of successful people that they have to start nonsense here.

The lemmings at realscam.com relish in their Cult of Uncertainty, they have ZERO EVIDENCE of scamming, and can only weakly and pathetically try to parallel other scams to it.

It is sweet beauty to me how you still provide ZERO EVIDENCE this is being a Ponzi. ZERO.

Oh, look, another non-atypical, myopic, and, inexhaustive analyis, laced with a meausre of cynicism.

Feel free to eludicate with specificity, which laws are being broken.

Posting websites that lay-out rules, does not prove anything.

With each new post, you unveil more of your thoughtlessness...and bitterness.

I say the cockroaches have certainly come out of the woodwork on this thread.

Again, all you have done is made parallels with other companies, and then extrapolate. Your "evidence" would not hold up in a court of law.


If you need more, just let me know because there are hundreds more I can provide you; and the best part is they all came from here. I hope you don't think you and digitalincome were the first ones to do this.

"Best Advice Ever for TVG-Connect: Find as many Pastor-MLM Leader Combos that you can find....
A Pastor that is a natural expert with network marketing will absolutely THRIVE big time with our community."

https://www.facebook.com/charlesandr...05154952492926

The fact they spelled "Void" wrong from day 1 blew any potential credibility to begin with.

Anyone noticed: HYIP ponzi frauds never have a problem with payments going IN, only ever with payments going OUT ???



My prediction: some very kind hearted Christians are going to get a very hard lesson from this one - and it will come sooner, rather than later

Seems ending world hunger is the hot Ponzi/MLM scam du Jour. Here's oz's latest review on something similar. Coincidence, I think not.

Hidden Hunger Global Review: HHI gets a reboot

Originally Posted by littleroundman

Anyone noticed: HYIP ponzi frauds never have a problem with payments going IN, only ever with payments going OUT ???



My prediction: some very kind hearted Christians are going to get a very hard lesson from this one - and it will come sooner, rather than later

But like void of reason said, they just want to allegedly help starving children. No need to worry about money coming back out to them. right?

Originally Posted by littleroundman

What is really, really, really sad is, despite all the warnings that exist WRT charity fraud and all the deserving charities which exist today

Other than a handful of "innocents" losing money in these scams, the reality is things like TVG serve to take food out of the mouths of orphans. Especially overseas there are organizations with massive infrastructures in place that have 95% or better efficiency in getting "program items" to intended recipients. A dollar may actually buy $25 or $50 worth of food or supplies because of existing relationships they have with corporate sponsors and other charities.

Anyone can run the numbers themselves, instead of a starter pack for TVG or whatever other BS money game if they really want to feed orphans their best investment is sending the money to the places where the work is already being done efficiently.

There is so much posting going on here, that I don't have time to quote everyone and address everything to the degree that it deserves. However, here are the salient points in brief:

* I'm not defending TVG. You could be right, they may very well be a scam. However, before you accuse someone of a serious crime like fraud, I think you should have some solid evidence.
* There is nothing wrong with keeping domain name registration private.The largest registrar in the world, Go Daddy, recommends it for everyone. It keeps weirdos and dangerous people from knowing your address.
* Since the TVG site is brand new, glitches are to be expected. Why read anything into that? Also, since they just went live with a new site, taking down external pages is also not indicative of some sort of crime or conspiracy.
* A "straw man" argument creates the illusion of defeating an opponent's proposition, by covertly replacing it with a different proposition. I'm not doing that, I'm simply asking you to provide evidence for your position.
* I don't have money to invest in TVG even if I wanted to. The reason I am interested is this thread is simple. Someone bought me a lifetime VIP Pass, as a way to help the orphans at the 501(c)(3) I volunteer with. We give 100% of donations to orphanages under our umbrella even absorbing the banking and transfer fees. So, the problem is not that efficient infrastructure to help orphans doesn't already exist, the problem is there are not enough donations to meet the needs, Therefore, the key question I have is this - is TVG connect a legal and ethical funding source for our charity?
* I can see why you are cynical and skeptical, and I don't disagree that on the surface TVG has much in common with HYIP ponzi schemes, and affinity scams. There are certainly grounds for caution and I thank you for bringing that to my attention. However, I would like to see some convincing evidence, before I write them off as a potential funding source, or believe that the founders are lying criminals, rather than well meaning Christian humanitarians who also happen to be marketers.

Voice of Reason:

I want to address just two points from your post above.

First you said: "There is nothing wrong with keeping domain name registration private.The largest registrar in the world, Go Daddy, recommends it for everyone. It keeps weirdos and dangerous people from knowing your address."

Now stop and think about this for a minute. Just exactly what don't we know about Lois, Charles, Gustavo, and Bill because they keep their domain registration private? I know what they look like, I know their name, address, phone number. I know who their friends are, what they like to do, and the list goes on and on. So how are they protecting themselves from weirdo's by keeping the domain name registration information a secret? Of course it might be because Lois and the others do not want the public and their members to know just who is behind this program, and this party is the one who registered the domain name. What is telling with TVG is they are using a Panamanian company to protect this information. They could have used a US based company to do the same thing. You should be asking yourself why Panama. A Google search will give you the answer.

I do agree that some companies should keep their registration information private for the type of work they are doing as it would be dangerous if the wrong people discovered their information. TVG is not one of them.

Now to the most important part of what you posted. Just what do you consider "convincing evidence?" You see without defining what you mean we will never meet what you want. So please tell us what do you consider to be convincing evidence?

It doesn't matter how many times he is told the sort of "convincing evidence" he is demanding won't be found unless the fraudsters are complete rank amateurs, Voice of Reason has demonstrated he is going to persist with his arguments.

What's more, he is positioning himself so that when (not if) TVG does go belly up, it will be our fault for not providing him with sufficient "convincing evidence" to avoid losing his money.

Fraudsters love people like VoR.

They don't have to "do" anything

VoR will provide his own "what ifs" and "could bes" to explain away what are glaring warning signs for more prudent and careful donaters and then throw in a large does of "what about the starving children" just to make sure he's "right"

Experience tells us an unfortunate fact of life when dealing with fraud and fraud prevention is that some people just can't be helped, AND, it will be everyone elses' fault but theirs when the inevitable happens.

"If you had only delivered your message in a more gentle way"

"If you had only provided more concrete proof"

"If you had only offered to join hands and sing Kumbaya instead of becoming annoyed at my intransigence"

FTC Consumer warning

See that ??

"SIGNS"

Not "definitive proof", not "hard facts"

"SIGNS"

Originally Posted by EagleOne

Voice of Reason:

I want to address just two points from your post above.

First you said: "There is nothing wrong with keeping domain name registration private.The largest registrar in the world, Go Daddy, recommends it for everyone. It keeps weirdos and dangerous people from knowing your address."

Now stop and think about this for a minute. Just exactly what don't we know about Lois, Charles, Gustavo, and Bill because they keep their domain registration private? I know what they look like, I know their name, address, phone number. I know who their friends are, what they like to do, and the list goes on and on. So how are they protecting themselves from weirdo's by keeping the domain name registration information a secret? Of course it might be because Lois and the others do not want the public and their members to know just who is behind this program, and this party is the one who registered the domain name. What is telling with TVG is they are using a Panamanian company to protect this information. They could have used a US based company to do the same thing. You should be asking yourself why Panama. A Google search will give you the answer.

I do agree that some companies should keep their registration information private for the type of work they are doing as it would be dangerous if the wrong people discovered their information. TVG is not one of them.

Now to the most important part of what you posted. Just what do you consider "convincing evidence?" You see without defining what you mean we will never meet what you want. So please tell us what do you consider to be convincing evidence?

Hi Eagleone - I do appreciate your well reasoned response, thank-you.

1) I think the idea of keeping registration private, makes it just a little bit more difficult to track down physical addresses for people. If you were able to track down physical address for TVG staff, it probably took a few more steps then a simple Whois search. It's a measure of protection, but not insurmountable to someone determined - I agree. I also agree that it could be an attempt to hide something, but not necessarily so. It could be just innocent and sensible self protection.

2) I did a whois search and came up with:
Domain Name: TVGCONNECT.COM
Registrar URL: Wild West Domains
Registrant Name: Lois McQuinn

That is a BBB A+ rated US registrar (not Panama).

BBB ACCREDITED BUSINESS SINCE 20/08/2002
Wild West Domains, LLC
14455 N. Hayden Road #219, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Wild West Domains
BBB® Accredited Business Seal BBB® A+ Rating


3) If TVGCONNECT.COM wasn't registered to Lois McQuinn but instead a secret person in Panama, and that provided some sort of legal scam protection to the founders, I guess that would be strong circumstanical evidence that something is amiss. Is that what you are trying to allege?

4) Convincing proof for me, would be something concrete and actionable. Something that isn't speculation, innuendo, conjecture, cynicism, or conspiracy theory. Something that allows me to make a confident determination, one way or the other. It's very important for me to make the right decision, since our orphans are underfunded and if TVG is legit they may be able to help. If they are a scam, it will bring disrepute to a fledgling 501(c)(3) that many good people worked hard to bring to life, as a bonafide force for good in the world. If you can help me to make that determination, I would really appreciate it.

again......you need to be asking THEM for proof they are legit. They have to provide all the 'charity' information by law when you ask (you won't get any).
You can also ask them why they are dealing with known scammers and allowing it to be advertised on ponzi messageboards and why it is an alleged 'mlm' structure when it's allegedly only suppose to be about helping the helpless (as you already know - they won't answer). But you won't because you already know the answers. And why not just donate to a known legitimate one as has been recommended here? Surely that can't be deemed nefarious as you insist this site is. Expecting money back is very hypocritical at this point. Just go all in as suggested.
And why are you still here defending them if this was allegedly such a waste of your time. You are not going to change our minds about it.

Hi littleroundman. I think this is the 3rd time I've seen that chart in this thread. Once again I will remind you that TVG connect does not bill itself as a charity, it is a for profit business. Therefore (once again) your chart doesn't belong in this discussion.

Now if you want to put up a chart about for profit businesses, that would be appropriate. Legitimate charities are looking at TVG as a funding source, and commercial entities provide corporate sponsorship to bona fide charities everyday. It's not an unheard of concept for businesses to fund charities.

I think what makes this questionable, is it's a marketing company that is ostensibly claiming to generate humanitarian funds, and there have been so many marketing scams run, that there is quite naturally suspicion over the motives and structure. Is this a new incarnation of the affinity scam, with HYIP ponzi structure thrown ion for good measure, or is it just a bunch of good hearted marketers, who want to take their experience and put it to work in a humanitarian effort.

That is the question that confronts me, and I would like to establish the truth of the matter quickly and conclusively. Your ad hominem attacks and misplaced chart, don't really do anything to support your contentions.