Thread: Watkins... a scam or not?

Char,

All of these programs are optional and are products at a 30-40% discount over the usual 25% discount. If you would rather not save an extra 5-15% on product purchases you can, if you never want to order products this is also an option (odd choice to not want to buy the products you are promoting). You are free to pass up the Watkinize Your Home upgrade and pay $375 for $500 in products rather than $349.

The Mary Kay site was focused on people being encouraged to load up on thousands of dollars of products that they did not intend to use, just buying for the business. Watkins discourages having an inventory for products above your current use of the products or your customer's current demand of products.

The most important thing in Watkins are the products and the proven way to being successful in Watkins is to use the products daily so you can share with customers and potential consultants about them from personal experience, akin to a Ford salesman building credibility by driving a Ford F-150 rather than driving a Dodge Ram. The above programs allow consultants to experience and begin to use the products at an increased discount to help them build their product use and product knowledge.

When I got my WYH package I went around my home and replaced as many products I had whether Dial Soaps, Tide detergent or McCormick spices with my new Watkins products and put the non-Watkins products in a back of a cabinet or in the trash and made a commitment to keep adding new Watkins products to my daily use and re-ordering the products I got in my WYH package. Pretty much now if there is a Watkins product available I use it.

Originally Posted by therockroad

Char,

All of these programs are optional and are products at a 30-40% discount over the usual 25% discount. If you would rather not save an extra 5-15% on product purchases you can, if you never want to order products this is also an option (odd choice to not want to buy the products you are promoting). You are free to pass up the Watkinize Your Home upgrade and pay $375 for $500 in products rather than $349.

The Mary Kay site was focused on people being encouraged to load up on thousands of dollars of products that they did not intend to use, just buying for the business. Watkins discourages having an inventory for products above your current use of the products or your customer's current demand of products.

The most important thing in Watkins are the products and the proven way to being successful in Watkins is to use the products daily so you can share with customers and potential consultants about them from personal experience, akin to a Ford salesman building credibility by driving a Ford F-150 rather than driving a Dodge Ram. The above programs allow consultants to experience and begin to use the products at an increased discount to help them build their product use and product knowledge.

There is a blogger who tirelessly defends Amway, his handle is PBJfightback or some such. In many of his posts he says almost verbatim what you are saying about product loading and the tools business. Yet, we know from years of history and 100s of personal stories what happens in many corners of MLM. So where does that leave us in reading his work? Is his downline truly different, or is he spinning? Hard to know 100%, but if someone is really involved in a business it is difficult in my opinion for them not to know what is going.

Which brings me back to Watkins and a comment made earlier about the number of items on Ebay listed for sale. I associate EBAY with the place affiliates of MLM go when they need to empty their garages of product. It is hard for me to conceive these are all folks who bought with the sole intention of being EBAY sellers and not victims of product loading from overzealous uplines. Maybe I am completely wrong on this and Watkins is the one exception to the rule.

Product loading is discouraged because of the importance on Watkins end for people to have the freshest products available with the newest labeling so that the customer gets the best product available. Watkins consultants are prohibited from selling old discontinued products or products with out-of-date labeling, so it would be unwise to stock products that are not selling. The general rule is to collect orders and place an order at the beginning of the month and end of the month for items you use and what your customers ordered.

The Watkinize Your Home package is a collection of daily use items like spices, soups, cleaning products, detergent, etc. that people can consume in their own home over a few months so there is no fear of loading.

As to eBay, you are true that a lot of people unload excess merchandise from MLM programs. There are people that were selling Watkins products on eBay as a part of their Watkins business, but Watkins as of last year has established a new policy that all online sales must take place at the jrwatkins.com website, so these people are having to phase out their online sales on eBay and Watkins is allowing them time to sell off their inventory. One of the largest sellers on eBay was the top consultant in retail sales, so they were moving products and not just stockpiling. As to the others I don't know all of their stories, there are some natural foods and drugstores that also have eBay pages that sell Watkins products.

Also in a generic "Watkins" search on eBay you are also going to pickup Watkins collectibles from the past like cookbooks from the 40's, old tins, old catalogs and even some NASCAR stuff related to Watkins Glen Racetrack.

Originally Posted by therockroad

Product loading is discouraged because of the importance on Watkins end for people to have the freshest products available with the newest labeling so that the customer gets the best product available.

That sounds like the way it should be. Then if someone gets involved they are as you say using stuff themselves, or only buying what they can retail to actual customers.

On a side note, where does your company stand on motivational tools and rallies?

Motivational tools and rallies as a profit center as in other MLM companies is not a part of Watkins as I know it. All Summit Group training is offered free of charge online and one-on-one by team leaders.

Originally Posted by therockroad

Char,

All of these programs are optional and are products at a 30-40% discount over the usual 25% discount. If you would rather not save an extra 5-15% on product purchases you can, if you never want to order products this is also an option (odd choice to not want to buy the products you are promoting). You are free to pass up the Watkinize Your Home upgrade and pay $375 for $500 in products rather than $349.

The Mary Kay site was focused on people being encouraged to load up on thousands of dollars of products that they did not intend to use, just buying for the business. Watkins discourages having an inventory for products above your current use of the products or your customer's current demand of products.

The most important thing in Watkins are the products and the proven way to being successful in Watkins is to use the products daily so you can share with customers and potential consultants about them from personal experience, akin to a Ford salesman building credibility by driving a Ford F-150 rather than driving a Dodge Ram. The above programs allow consultants to experience and begin to use the products at an increased discount to help them build their product use and product knowledge.

When I got my WYH package I went around my home and replaced as many products I had whether Dial Soaps, Tide detergent or McCormick spices with my new Watkins products and put the non-Watkins products in a back of a cabinet or in the trash and made a commitment to keep adding new Watkins products to my daily use and re-ordering the products I got in my WYH package. Pretty much now if there is a Watkins product available I use it.

All the packages are optional but YOU bought one as will anyone who wants to take their "business" seriously. This is a tactic and you've fallen for it without realizing it. You are also buying only Watkins, EXACTLY THEIR MISSION, by dubbing customers i.e. YOU "business owners".

Why didn't you have all Watkins products before starting this business? Think long and hard about that question.

With regard to the Ford truck, I don't see car salesmen going around recruiting other employees to dilute their customer pool at the dealership therefore this is not an accurate analogy.

Look at the quote below. You are parroting crap that's been around for years whether it be Watkins or Amway et al. You just don't realize it YET. IMO, you are distracted by the product, BY DESIGN, and not focusing on the fact that MLM IS MLM regardless of the product. MLM is a system and a bad one at that.


All You Need To Know About MLM (Is MLM a Scam?)
According to the MLM/promoter, each recruit is his own L1 business, the product is unique and in high demand, and the figures above are simply the result of "duplication of his efforts". Recruits are encouraged to buy and try the product(s), because a "good salesperson" needs to know the product he's selling (of course once he's opened it to try, it's generally nonreturnable). By design, a "balanced" MLM business utilizes both retailing and recruiting, and the market is never saturated. But look at the results above — L1 has sold only two products and his own compensation has already exceeded the $340 total of all 17 products sold at retail! Furthermore, let's look at the FULL chart:

I'm sorry if I'm coming across strong to you. Like I said before, I really believe that you believe. I just get so frustrated.

I am buying only Watkins products because I know that they are of the highest quality and from experience using Watkins products in my home for over 30 years, I had a cousin that was a Watkins rep in the 1980's who introduced me to the products like Watkins pepper and cinnamon. I also get a 39% consultant discount which makes the best in products even more affordable.

I am actively working on getting more Watkins products sold by myself, by my team of people and seeking new people to share the Watkins products. In the 1940's and 50's in the height of the door-to-door salesman days Watkins was a brand name in many homes in America, I want to see that happen again that when people go to their pantry to get cinnamon it's Watkins cinnamon or when they go to do their laundry it's Watkins detergent they are using.

The Watkins products are and have been the focus of the company for 145 years, they are not a distraction but the reason for the company to exist and my goal and other Watkins consultants goal is to see more Watkins products in homes in the USA and Canada.

Originally Posted by therockroad

I am buying only Watkins products because I know that they are of the highest quality and from experience using Watkins products in my home for over 30 years, I had a cousin that was a Watkins rep in the 1980's who introduced me to the products like Watkins pepper and cinnamon. I also get a 39% consultant discount which makes the best in products even more affordable......
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Originally Posted by therockroad

When I got my WYH package I went around my home and replaced as many products I had whether Dial Soaps, Tide detergent or McCormick spices with my new Watkins products and put the non-Watkins products in a back of a cabinet or in the trash and made a commitment to keep adding new Watkins products to my daily use and re-ordering the products I got in my WYH package. Pretty much now if there is a Watkins product available I use it.

High quality or not, you did not exclusively buy Watkins prior to joining up (according to your post highlighted in red). This is how humans do things. Think about how ridiculous you'd think it was for me to suggest you get your toilet paper from Amway.

The Watkins products are and have been the focus of the company for 145 years, they are not a distraction but the reason for the company to exist and my goal and other Watkins consultants goal is to see more Watkins products in homes in the USA and Canada...

Yes, but you are not Watkins. You are a new loyal customer buying products than you never did before, and advertising Watkins on your dime. Watkins is distracting you by calling you an IBO in order to get you to buy their products and advertise for them - And its working FOR WATKINS which you are not.

What you are saying is nothing new. I cannot tell you how many times I've heard the same excuses INCLUDING MY OWN SELF back in the day when I too was being duped. MLM IS MLM and that will not change. It is a system and not a product. You have to understand that. I admit my own stupid mistake, have studied it, never seen it work as described, and am trying to spare others losing money and precious time.

therockroad: All you have to do is ask yourself these questions: When Watkins was selling door-to-door, did the salesmen get a referral fee for bringing other salesmen into the business? Did the salesman get a percentage of the sales of the salesman brought into the business? Did the salesman who brought the salesman into the business, get a percentage of the sales of all the salesmen his salesman brought into the business?

You see I hardly doubt this is the way Watkins was doing sales of their products before expanding into the MLM model. The focus was on sales. If you didn't sell, you didn't get paid and you didn't eat. Now you get paid whether you sell or not just by bringing people into the business and from a portion of their sales. And if each member is not generating 51% of their income from outside retail sales, it is an illegal pyramid no matter what you, me or anyone else says. It is what the FTC says, and they are the ones whose opinion counts. You are playing with fire here and so is Watkins.

Char,

Thanks for your concern and sharing your experiences.

I may not be Watkins, but I am an independent representative of Watkins. I am more than just a new loyal customer, I am using the products and promoting the products and business. Along with advertising the business on my dime (actually use mostly free social network sites), I am also training my team members who are doing home parties, flea markets, door-to-door sales and more. Team building is just one aspect of the Watkins business and that is what I am focusing on as I build my foundation in the business.

Originally Posted by therockroad

Char,

Thanks for your concern and sharing your experiences.

I may not be Watkins, but I am an independent representative of Watkins. I am more than just a new loyal customer, I am using the products and promoting the products and business. Along with advertising the business on my dime (actually use mostly free social network sites), I am also training my team members who are doing home parties, flea markets, door-to-door sales and more. Team building is just one aspect of the Watkins business and that is what I am focusing on as I build my foundation in the business.

Yes, hopefully all readers here will consider the info I and many others post before joining any MLM.

Independent rep for Watkins? I assume you are compensated for your time. Would part-time hours be a fair assessment? So by my math using minimum wage (the very least):

20 hours a week x $8.00 = $160 week or $640 a month.

I certainly hope Watkins is at least paying you that to start with - For your time and efforts as an independent representative for Watkins.

Does Watkins reimburse you for your expenses while representing them? Did they provide the computer to advertise on those social network sites? Or are you using your own?

You are training team members to do home parties, flea markets, etc...???

Is that what your upline team members are training you to do? Or are you doing that for your downline?
Did someone sign you up? Are you someone's downline?

For me, why would I want to do all that door to door sales etc. when I could just train someone else to do it for me. Yes? Is that what you are doing?

Team building is just one aspect of the Watkins business and that is what I am focusing on as I build my foundation in the business.

After you build your foundation and someone in your downline leaves or quits ordering, do you have to replace them? Or are you set with your foundation once you reach a level regardless of what your downline does in the future?

Originally Posted by Char

Yes, hopefully all readers here will consider the info I and many others post before joining any MLM.

This has been a great thread highlighting the trials and tribulations of becoming a top dog MLM distributor. It comes back to the same few things with every MLM I have seen to date:

* Even with the discount, distributors seem to be paying closer to retail than wholesale.
* Any high volume customer would be mad not to become a "distributor", which means a huge cut in retail sales to the person previously selling directly to them.
* While I like the idea of retail selling at homes, flea markets, door to door that seems like a tough route considering the above, plus massive retail competition online and big box.

The MLM model appears flawed opposed to traditional sales where there is one commission or a true wholesale/retail pricing structure. Unless a distributor has a venue where they can do large scale retail they must rely on a network of people who "self consume", and that almost never seems to play out as easy as it sounds.

To your point about wages, almost anyone could go out and wait tables, deliver pizzas, or find some similar part time job to fill the (MLM Hours) and start putting cash in their pockets immediately. It has been years since I waited tables, but a few shifts on the weekend meant $200+ in cash, that is $10kish a year, more than 95% in MLM earn regardless of how plugged in they are.

Not seeing it, but am lookin to find some of the Watkins Vanilla and Cinnamon to make French toast.

And, once again, around and around we go with an MLMer rationalizing, justifying and laying blame while simultaneously refusing to acknowledge the presence of the 500 lb gorilla in the room.

Here we have what Watkins and therockroad apparently condone as being a truthful representation of the Watkins "opportunity"

NOTE: the frequent use of the "no selling required" mantra

NOTE: the unsubstantiated earnings "potential"

NOTE: the use of the same hyperbole and "weasel words" common to almost every get-rich-quick schemes'splash page or capture page

Question: what makes this advert any different than any of the squillion other shady pseudo MLM advertisements infesting the 'net today

Forget about the legality, could any reasonable person view this web page and NOT think scam, hype, B/S or similar.

Lol, what a silly ad.

EXPERIENCED Mlmers know that you can't count on anyone in your downline when they themselves don't have a money making downline of their own. That 9-4-1 just doesn't fly. Anyone without a significant SUCCESSFULL downline (your downline's downline) isn't sticking around. They are going to lose faith, get tired of spending extra money, and stop devoting their time, if they aren't getting anything and very little in return. Well they might buy a bottle of vanilla every few months but they will probably pick up their laundry soap along with their toilet paper at Costco.

It's also possible that unsuccessful downlines might change companies thinking they'd be more successful trying to promote fruit juice like Genesis Pure for example. All that hard work training them and poof they take "the business they own" elsewhere. I guess that's their perogative as its their business, apparently. But how can your downline be your business if that same downline owns his business? Whew!!!!

Unsuccessful downlines will drop like flies and they will need to be replaced. Unfortunately it gets harder and harder to build because IBO surely already exhausted everyone he knew with the first go round.

littleroundman,

This is an ad run by 1 Watkins consultant, not run by me or Watkins. It appears that without it being linked to christene marketing's site which benefits from her 1000+ google+ connections in google searches, it appears not to be findable on the net.

I don't know if you noticed that christene has added a disclaimer saying that she has no affiliation with Watkins or The Summit Group or the dozens of other companies she reviewed.