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Thread: Why MLMs Never Release Their Financial Statements

  1. #1
    A Life Aloft is offline fled troglodyte invasion
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    Why MLMs Never Release Their Financial Statements

    What do people in MLM use to assess the business opportunity financially?


    Being that all MLMers tell you its a business, I am wondering what business principals are used to assess the opportunity from a financial point of view.

    For instance, if you were to buy an apartment building and investigate whether it was a good financial opportunity, this would consist of looking at the gross and net incomes for the prior 3 years (verifying income and expenses), looking at the market rents and occupancy rates, and calculating the average sales prices (on a per unit base) over the past 6-12 months within a 1 mile radius, you would have the building properly inspected and assessed by a professional, etc. All that information would be used in your financial assessment of the deal and to help you to decide whether it was worthwhile.

    Looking at financial statements is key in buying any business, but I have never heard of this in MLM. Other than statements made at a meeting or from their sponsor, what financial criteria is being used to decide whether the MLM "business opportunity" makes sense financially and is it ever verified?

    So an MLM member's research was merely looking at a COMPENSATION PLAN put out by the MLM itself?? Hmmmmm.

    What exactly did they verify and how? That the plan would pay a particular compensation percentage? So, do they believe that their upline number’s, someone who is supposedly making money running this MLM business, was of no interest to them and they just take their "word" with no actual hard proof?

    MLM’s make 90% of their money through turn-over. Constantly repeating a cycle of recruiting, training, selling and quitting.

    Most people will join, sell what they can to friends and family, then quit.

    It’s only an opportunity for those willing to recruit and train. Problem is, once you realize you are selling overpriced crap to your friends and family, most people won’t be able to recruit anyone if they don’t believe in the product they are selling.

    Bottom line, MLM’s are tough for most people to make any real money at, unless you stick through it long enough to recruit lots of people below you, where you make money on their sales.

    And of course no one wants to show you their books or really look at hard figures, because it’s all pie in the sky.

  2. #2
    A Life Aloft is offline fled troglodyte invasion
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    re: Why MLMs Never Release Their Financial Statements

    Great article from Tracy Coenen :

    Even an MLM scammer says MLMs are scams

    Who do you trust? That’s an issue that often arises in my work with reformed felon Barry Minkow. Barry is most well-known for the fraud he committed through his carpet cleaning company ZZZZ Best. He is much less known for his work helping the FBI uncover fraud since he’s been out of prison. Barry has been responsible for uncovering and stopping more than $2 billion in fraud (the story I’m linking to is a year old, and there has been more since then).

    Yet inevitably, when Barry exposes a fraud, the critics are quick to bring up his past as a fraudster and completely discount his findings. The same goes for the former CFO of Crazy Eddie, Sam Antar. He’s been writing extensively about the financial statement fraud at Overstock.com, and has been dismissed by some as a con artist with ulterior motives. But Sam has been vindicated, as Overstock.com has announced another restatement of earnings, meaning the company has a full decade of inaccurate financial statements now on file with the SEC. (Thankfully, the officers and directors of Overstock.com don’t have to take any responsibility for repeated misstatements of the financials, and are still getting health bonuses!!!!)

    I’ve learned in working with both Barry and Sam for the last few years that sometimes, it takes one to know one. When we analyze public companies, these guys see something different than I do. I come from side of walking the straight and narrow and abiding by the laws. They come from the side of the criminals, and they ask themselves “how would I commit fraud at this company.”

    One of my favorite topics on this blog is multi-level marketing companies (MLMs). Let me be clear: The laws in the United States protect these companies. They have a long history of projecting public images that make them look like legitimate business opportunities, in spite of the fact that almost everyone who gets involved loses money. In my opinion, they’re nothing more than glorified pyramid schemes, disguised by a “product” which everyone pretends is the focus of the opportunity. The truth is that recruiting people into an endless chain recruitment scheme is the real deal, and that my friends, is the pyramid.

    So it is with great interest that I read the writings of Greg Caton, a multi-level marketing scammer. Admittedly, he’s still involved in some sketchy science with a product called Cansema, which purports to cure skin cancer. He was sentenced to 33 months in prison and 3 years of supervised release for selling this product without FDA approval and for fraud in the marketing of it. The guy still sells the product, however, as he ran off to Ecuador in 2008 to avoid regulation by U.S. authorities.

    But lets set aside the facts about his products for a minute, and focus on the issue of selling products through a multi-level marketing system. Caton founded Consumer Express in 1984, and the company later became Nutrition For Life. It utilized MLM methods to “sell” the products and was apparently successful in doing so.

    Caton published a book called MLM Fraud in 1990, and continues to speak out occasionally on the issue of fraud in multi-level marketing companies. Here he has written about why companies selling nutritional products via the MLM method are full of it. I submit to you that the fraud via multi-level marketing is not just limited to health products, but that is simply what Caton writes about because it’s what he is familiar with. But his arguments against MLM can be applied to virtually all MLMs, no matter what they’re selling.

    Here’s a summary of why he believes that multi-level marketing (often called “network marketing” or “direct selling” in an effort to avoid association with the concept of pyramid schemes) sucks:

    Myth 1: MLM Products Are A Competitive Alternative To Conventional Retail Marketing

    MLM promoters go out of their way to tell you how expensive it is for companies to market through “traditional” outlets. They point out the “middlemen”, the advertising costs, and the chain of distribution. They claim that multi-level marketing companies eliminate all this by selling their product directly to distributors, who sell directly to end-users.

    Sounds great, right? Except the MLM method is neither better nor cheaper. The MLM companies do have one distinct advantage in this regard: the people marketing their products can get away with a lot of improprieties that the companies themselves cannot. If the companies advertise their products, they have to be careful about claims they make. They have to be truthful! Independent distributors, on the other hand, run around largely unregulated. They can say whatever they want with little chance of them ever being taken to task for false claims, and the companies themselves can disavow knowledge of false claims and remind everyone that the distributors are “independent” and whatever they say is not sanctioned by the company.

    But as for being a cheaper method of distribution? Not true. Caton explains:

    The commission structures of the more successful MLM companies put them at a huge disadvantage to other forms of retailing. Example: at Alpha Omega Labs it is not uncommon for us to purchase a product from another manufacturer in quantity, paying the very same price that a large MLM company would pay, private-labelling it, and then marking it up just 50%. In other words, the product cost us $10 and we are retailing that product for just $15. That very same product will retail in the MLM pipeline for $70 to $100. It simply has to — MLM companies cannot survive on small markups.

    When we have been approached by MLM companies in the past to purchase something that WE manufacture (about 50% of everything we sell is manufactured in-house), we are invaluably told upfront, “Now realize that your price has to be competitive enough for us to add our customary 5 to 10 times markup!”

    Multi-level marketing companies simply do not make their money because they have an amazing product at a competitive price. They make money because they are recruiting people into the “business opportunity.” They wish for consumers to focus on the existence of the product, but all of the company’s activities are really focused on recruiting. Caton says:

    What drives MLM is not the product or its price.

    What drives MLM is the “business opportunity” — thus making the product a means to an end and not the end in itself.

    MLM products are not a competitive alternative to conventional retail marketing for one very simple reason:

    They don’t have to be.

    Let’s look at another example — in terms of hour-for-hour entertainment value, are gaming devices at any of the thousands of casinos and other gambling establishments in North America competitive with even the most expensive Nintendo or Game Boy products that entertain youngsters? Of course not.

    Some might not think this is a fair comparison, but the fact is, both MLM marketing programs and gambling establishments share an appeal for those who believe in “Something for nothing.”

    The gambler who sits before a “one-armed bandit,” believing he has a reasonable chance of being the next big winner, is running off the very same motivation that drives an MLM distributor to work a downline in the hopes of soon retiring off the labor of those beneath him. Both are motivated by the dream of huge returns for comparatively small efforts expended. And both are working in the hope that these rare exceptions, and not the normal play of Universal or Natural Laws — will apply to them. And this is what defines MLM — it is a corporate-sponsored form of a lottery . . . (Okay, maybe that’s the best comparison . . . Lotteries have a higher “percentage payout” then most MLM companies — “percentage payout” defined as the total given out in winnings (commissions) divided by gross sales.)

    Since when do lotteries have to be competitively priced?

    Answer: They don’t.

    Myth 2: My MLM Company has proprietary products not available elsewhere
    It seems every multi-level marketing company is selling something special…. magical juice, face potions, weight-loss miracles, super-duper energy drinks, and cosmetics like no other. The guise of something unique or special is used as a tool to justify the high price of the products. As you’ve already seen, the overpriced nature of MLM products is a result of the need to pay out commissions to many levels (not that any of those levels other than the top one or two makes enough to actually make a living, but that’s a different article on a different day.)

    I write quite a bit about Mary Kay Cosmetics. Their products are average, at best. Yes, some women happen to have extraordinary results with the products when no other products worked for them. That’s to be expected with any facial product… it’s going to work for some and not for others. But by and large, the products are of the quality you can find at Walgreens, Target, or Walmart. Yet the prices are closer to what you see in department stores with high-end brands. Why? Because of the commissions paid to multiple levels. The products are not priced based on quality, they’re priced based on what the company needs to bring in to pay the commissions.

    So are MLM products “cutting edge” and special and magical and all-around different from what you find in retail stores? No. Caton says:

    If you discovered an ingredient or other proprietary health product and you wanted to recoup your investment by maximizing the distribution possibilities would you: (1) Sell exclusively through an MLM company, or (2) Sell to both direct sales and conventional retailing channels — thus maximizing sales potential? Everyone knows the answer to that question. The “closed architecture” model for the distribution of proprietary products doesn’t work — or at the least can cause substantial loss of market share. (Can you spell “Apple Computer”?)

    Whether it’s “Sea Silver,” or transfer factor, or specialized colloidal minerals, or “egg immune factors” — you name it — there are multiple sources of supply.

    Excepting the fair use of trademarks, which provide distinction between the product of one maker versus those of his competitors, beware vendors who will tell you, “You can only get this from us.”

    A company may well own a trademark, but rarely do they own the technology that produces a given product’s underlying functionality — and if they did, they certainly wouldn’t restrict themselves to the MLM market.

    Myth 3: The MLM Industry is highly regulated so they are usually truthful on product claims

    This is a total joke. MLM is barely regulated at all. In fact, multi-level marketing companies have a little organization they call the Direct Selling Association. They’ve mis-named it purposely, again trying to get the focus away from the recruiting aspect on which the companies rely. Direct selling? They really mean direct recruiting!

    Then they promote their fake agenda: “Ethics. Trust. Confidence.” You can be assured that none of those three are really a concern of the MLM companies that are members of the DSA. This slogan is merely an attempt to fool readers into thinking the DSA is some sort of “industry watchdog” or consumer protection organization. It is neither.

    The DSA exists solely to lobby lawmakers in Washington D.C. to ensure that laws are never enacted that restrict the activities of MLM companies. Remember the proposed Business Opportunity Rule from a few years back, which would have forced multi-level marketing companies to back up their income claims, provide data on distributors, and generally NOT engage in fraudulent practices? The DSA lobbied so hard against this rule that it is now permanently shelved. It’s in limbo, and unlikely to ever emerge from there. Mission accomplished by the DSA! Provide more information to the people you’re trying to recruit into your scheme? Never!!!!

    The laws that do exist regarding pyramid schemes and business opportunity schemes are rarely enforced. And there are a bunch of attorneys out there just waiting for you to hire them so they can tell you how to get around any pesky laws that might affect your multi-level marketing scheme.

    Regulation of MLMs is almost non-existent. Caton writes:

    Even those on the inside at the various state Consumer Protection divisions will tell you that most MLM companies are hard to regulate or bring into compliance because they do not advertise their outrageous or false claims — but instead, let them propagate informally, via word of mouth, throughout their network. In addition, there are too many companies to regulate versus those assigned to enforcement.

    As for self-policing, this is almost non-existent in the MLM industry, since industry “watch groups,” such as MLM Watchdog or MLM Watch exist as media for the publications’ principals to shill their own latest plans. (Another example of misdirection is MLM Fraud, an organization that has nothing to do with reforming the industry.)

    Given its propensity for legal entanglements, few are surprised that the industry has, just within the last twenty years, given rise to attorneys specializing in defending MLM companies.

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    iamwil is offline Senior Member
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    re: Why MLMs Never Release Their Financial Statements

    Quote Originally Posted by A Life Aloft View Post
    MLM’s make 90% of their money through turn-over. Constantly repeating a cycle of recruiting, training, selling and quitting.

    So an MLM member's research was merely looking at a COMPENSATION PLAN put out by the MLM itself?? Hmmmmm.

    And of course no one wants to show you their books or really look at hard figures, because it’s all pie in the sky.
    Thanx for the contribution, however I'd like a little clarification.

    It would be nice to have a source and supporting facts for the first statement.

    As to the second, who else would write the compensation plan for a company?

    And for the last line, I believe it is required by law that every mlm provide the average earnings for each level of their company.

    Quote Originally Posted by A Life Aloft View Post
    Given its propensity for legal entanglements, few are surprised that the industry has, just within the last twenty years, given rise to attorneys specializing in defending MLM companies.
    I suppose the same could be said for Real Estate/title agents, and mining companies, and oil companies...lawsuits abound in this world and lawyers specialize in various industries...surely that is a surprise to no one.

  4. #4
    A Life Aloft is offline fled troglodyte invasion
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    re: Why MLMs Never Release Their Financial Statements

    Quote Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
    Thanx for the contribution, however I'd like a little clarification.

    It would be nice to have a source and supporting facts for the first statement.

    As to the second, who else would write the compensation plan for a company?

    And for the last line, I believe it is required by law that every mlm provide the average earnings for each level of their company.

    I suppose the same could be said for Real Estate/title agents, and mining companies, and oil companies...lawsuits abound in this world and lawyers specialize in various industries...surely that is a surprise to no one.
    You "believe", that is your first problem. You don't know. And what outside source verifies and certifies those statements? Do you not understand the difference between complete financial statements and their disclosure and claims made by MLMs which address only what they wish to expose? Oh wait, you don't even understand basic high school level bookkeeping terms, so I guess that answer is no.

    Here is an education for you. Go to Yahoo and look up YTB stock prices. Then go to the financial 10 k quarterly and yearly financial statements and educate yourself and let me know when you see these filed by other MLMs. And I mean 98% of MLMs. You won't.

    Let's see you provide such detailed statements from 98% of MLMs, dear.

    By Jon M. Taylor, Ph.D., President, Consumer Awareness Institute and Director, Pyramid Scheme Alert

    1. Summary of what was learned from these studies

    Are MLM’s* (multi-level marketing or network marketing companies) legitimate? Or are they thinly disguised pyramid schemes that enrich a few at the top of a pyramid – at the expense of a multitude of unwitting downline victims? If the latter, then consumers, the press, consumer protection agencies, and investors (for publicly traded MLM companies) have been duped into accepting it as legal and ethical, when in fact it is not.

    Who, if anyone, is making money in Amway/Quixtar, Nu Skin, Usana, and a myriad of other MLM programs? Until recently, there were few solid numbers to back up claims, pro or con. Previous attempts to get MLM companies to release valid data have been met with avoidance1, and data they have provided is often misleading2. But there is one group of experts that knows who is actually reporting profits—CPA’s and other preparers of tax returns.

    We performed a telephone survey of over 200 tax preparers in Idaho and Utah, a hotbed of MLM activity. We also did a randomized survey of households in Utah County, which has the highest concentration of MLM companies in the country. The findings led to the following conclusions:

    1. Direct sales to consumers by MLM "distributors" (in quotes because they are primarily buyers, not distributors**) are extremely rare, even in Utah County. Almost all MLM’s are not direct sales companies, in spite of what they claim. Instead, most sales are to recruits who are led to believe that the MLM is a "business opportunity" and that aggressive recruiting and ongoing purchases of products will qualify them for ascending levels of commission payouts.

    2. Most recruiting for Utah MLM’s is done outside Utah, presumably because de facto market saturation in Utah has stiffened resistance to buying into the MLM’s. So MLM promoters go to other states, and then from one foreign country to another to keep the scheme going. Or they sometimes start new product divisions to cycle the pyramid anew. MLM’s like Nu Skin and Usana become, in effect, Ponzi schemes, by recruiting new investors in their schemes to pay off earlier investors. About 99.9% lose money.

    3. Commissions paid by the company to "distributors" are not enough to cover their expenses, so almost all lose money, with the rare exception of those at the top of a hierarchy of "distributors." We’ll call them "TOPP’s" for "top of the pyramid promoters." This occurs because MLM compensation plans leverage the efforts and investments of recruits so that large commission checks go only to TOPP’s. However, based on extensive analysis of available public documents, about 99.9% of total participants (those beneath the TOPP’s in the overall pyramid of participants) lose money. A sizable number of the few TOPP’s who do profit live in Utah County.

    4. In counties where no MLM’s are based and where few upscale residences are located, no participants in MLM programs reported significant profits over any significant period of time to preparers of tax returns. Many of these preparers have noticed this and view MLM’s as scams – because in a legitimate business at least a reasonable percentage who work in the business would show a profit.

    5. Prospects are led to believe that they can earn a substantial full or part-time income and gain "time freedom" by investing in the program in the form of ongoing product purchases. The total of these purchases constitute disguised or laundered investments in a product-based pyramid scheme.

    6. The combination of nutritional supplements with MLM as the vehicle for marketing them creates a double whammy of opportunities to defraud consumers. Consumers (at least in Utah) are not well protected by law enforcement against "recruiting MLM’s" and are further left vulnerable to exploitation in the sale of nutritional supplements by liberalization of legislation affecting such products.

    7. The MLM corporations which are publicly held are misrepresenting their core business when they claim to be selling direct to consumers, when in fact they are selling primarily to "distributors" – on false pretenses of being a profitable "business opportunity."

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    A Life Aloft is offline fled troglodyte invasion
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    re: Why MLMs Never Release Their Financial Statements

    When is an MLM merely a pyramid scheme?

    Recently, I completed an analysis3 which compared MLM to legitimate marketing models to which MLM is often compared, such as direct sales, insurance, franchises, etc. Five key characteristics of MLM compensation plans were identified, which distinguish most MLM’s from all other marketing models and which lead to large losses by downline participants. (It is in the nature of pyramid schemes for the money to go to the person at the top of a pyramid of participants, with the vast majority of participants found to be in a losing position at the bottom – regardless of when it collapses or is terminated.)

    MLM programs which have the five characteristics just mentioned in their compensation plan can be considered "product-based pyramid schemes," or "recruiting MLM’s"4 because their compensation plans reward the recruiting of "distributors" (through commissions from their purchases) more than selling direct to consumers. "Distributors" have to purchase products from the MLM in order to participate in the business. So the cards are stacked in favor of recruiting and selling products to new recruits, rather than selling direct to consumers.

    THE FIVE KEY CHARACTERISTICS, OR "RED FLAGS," OF A PRODUCT-BASED PYRAMID SCHEME

    1. Recruiting of participants is unlimited in an endless chain of empowered and motivated recruiters recruiting recruiters.

    2. Advancement in a hierarchy of multiple levels of "distributors" is achieved by recruitment, rather than by appointment.

    3. Ongoing purchases by "distributors" are encouraged in order for them to be eligible for commissions and to advance in the business ("pay to play").

    4. The company pays commissions and/or bonuses to more than five levels of "distributors."

    5. For each sale, company payout (in commissions, bonuses, etc.) for the total of all upline participants is nearly as much as (and may even exceed) that for the front line participant actually selling the products – creating an inadequate incentive for direct selling of products and an excessive incentive to recruit.

    Intensive recruiting (encouraged by compensation and marketing plans with the above features) makes possible commissions from easy sales to a multitude of downline recruits who are motivated to buy products to "play the game." This results in an extreme concentration of company commissions to TOPP’s.

    I classified rare MLM’s like Pampered Chef, which pays the bulk of its commissions to persons selling products to actual customers and which limits the number of levels on which commissions can be paid to less than 5 levels, as "retail MLM’s." Occasionally participants in retail MLM’s report modest profits, even without a large downline. So retail MLM’s (less than 1% of all MLM’s) were excluded from this analysis.

    These "five red flags" appear in compensation plans for almost all MLM’s, including those based in Utah. Their loss rates are horrendous. Where data has been available on recruiting MLM’s, approximately 99.9% of participants were found to lose money (based on analysis of court records, FTC and SEC filings, internal and public documents, etc). So only about one in 1,000 participants profit—the TOPP’s. The rest lose money, after subtracting all business expenses (including product purchases to "play the game").

    3. Utah – a hotbed of MLM activity – is a good place to seek answers.

    There is a high concentration of MLM companies based in Utah. (Nu Skin and Usana are two notables.) Utah County, in particular, is a hub of MLM activity. With at least 11 recruiting MLM’s in a population of 398,056 (2002 census estimate), that’s about one MLM for every 33,503 people – considerably greater density of MLM’s than any other county in the country. So what better place to study the profitability of MLM programs than in Utah? Surveys have shown a fairly consistent rate of 5-6% of Utah households participating in MLM as a distributor at any given time.5 Approximately, one in five (21%) have participated at some time during their lifetime.

    4. MLM – a business with no customers!

    Most MLM claims to be doing "direct selling" in MLM is mere pretense. MLM promoters tout their programs as "direct sales" alternatives to standard retail outlets—to avoid being prosecuted by the FTC and by state regulators for conducting pyramid schemes (see FTC rule below). However, if MLM’s were in fact emphasizing direct sales, one would expect Utahns to be bombarded with persons selling products from Utah MLM’s like Nu Skin and Usana, but they are not.

    A recent survey we conducted in Utah County, where MLM is most concentrated, showed that 6.9% of households (about one in 15) had been approached to buy MLM products (from recruiting MLM’s) in the past year – without being sold an "opportunity" connected with the purchases, usually at "opportunity meetings." Only 1.1% actually made purchases from an MLM company.6

    During the same period, 56% of households in Utah County had been approached to participate in an MLM "opportunity," and 4.6% actually joined. Four "distributors" per customer suggests a market selling to "distributors," not a market of direct sales to legitimate customers.

    The FTC definition of a legitimate MLM includes a rule allowing no more than 30% of its sales to "distributors". This hardly seems possible in Utah County because four times as many "distributors" are being recruited as customers are buying. In its latest SEC financial statements, Usana admitted that "preferred customers" accounted for only 15% of its retail direct sales. Based in this report, an unbiased observer would find few actual buyers other than recruits who invest in the "opportunity."

    These findings raise some important questions:

    —What kind of business has no customers? (only MLM’s pretending to be "direct sellers")

    —Who is buying the products that account for billions in revenues reported by Utah County MLM’s? Not residents of Utah County, where many TOPP’s are .located. Their "distributors" are their main customers.

    —If there are no direct sales to speak of, then who is making profits off of these supposed sales? (the TOPP’s – and company founders and officers)

    5. Who has the data? Preparers of tax returns do! Many notice no profits reported by MLM clients.

    A manager of H&R Block in northern Utah, told me that during his 25 years of doing over 12,000 tax returns a year between he and his group, they could not remember a single client who had reported a significant profit over any appreciable period of time in MLM! (One reported a sizable profit one year – but went bankrupt the next.)

    Another accountant told me of a seminar company that trains tax preparers across the country. The topic of MLM’s often comes up in connection with "hobby losses," and the concensus is that it is extremely rare to see profits from MLM participation. And a tax software

    developer, who dealt with thousands of tax preparers across the country, said he had asked about 100 of them if they had ever seen a profit reported from MLM participation. None had. This was out of a total of over a million tax returns.

    To confirm this, I performed a telephone survey7 of the people who should know if profits actually occur from MLM participation—the persons who prepare taxes for the most concentrated population of MLM participants – Utahns. What I found confirmed what we have suspected for many years, but for which we had little objective proof— except in the case of a half dozen programs, like Nu Skin, Amway, and Melaleuca, for which we already had good data. A few TOPP’s are getting rich at the expense of a multitude of downline recruits, who invest in products to participate in the MLM program on the basis of misrepresentations regarding income potential. (See Table 1—and other reports cited in END NOTES.)

    It was tricky to get tax preparers to give out the information I sought. Since it is considered unethical for tax professionals to divulge confidential tax information of their clients, I had to approach this survey very delicately. I began by sharing that I had learned from other tax professionals. I reassured them that I was not asking them to disclose information from specific clients, but simply wanted to know if their experience corresponded with what I had learned from others. Most of them had already observed the same thing – that almost no one was reporting profits on their taxes from participating in MLM. They could not recall anyone ever reporting a significant income from MLM (with the exception of Utah County, which will be explained later). Using this approach, only one Utah County tax accountant refused to cooperate.

    6. Three Utah counties have no MLM companies based therein, but thousands of MLM "distributors" – NONE of whom reported ongoing profits.

    Three counties in Utah were identified where there are no MLM companies based and few upper crust areas where TOPP’s are likely to dwell. The three are Tooele, Uintah, and Grand Counties – to the west and east of Utah County.

    I called all of the tax preparers (including CPA’s) that I could reach in these three sparsely populated counties (total population 80,660) – 33 total preparers, who had an aggregate total of about 14,400 clients in 2002. Over the course of their careers, the aggregate output of these preparers was over 300,000 total tax returns. Though many clients had at some time participated in MLM, these preparers could not recall even one client having reported significant profits over an extended period of time in MLM. (Two clients had a few years ago reported a small income from MLM recruiting back East, but both had quit within two years – hardly the “lifetime residual income” touted by TOPP’s at MLM opportunity meetings.)

    7. MLM participants "pay to play" the MLM game. Gamblers fare much better.

    Though tax preparers in Tooele County reported no net income from MLM, over 300 clients had reported significant gambling winnings in Wendover, Nevada, nearly 100 miles away. Two had become millionaires. (See the chart "Which Does the Greater Harm?"8 which compares odds of winning in gambling to MLM.)

    8. It’s the TOPP’s (Top of the Pyramid Promoters) – and MLM company officers – who are raking it in, especially in Utah county.

    Then I called preparers of tax returns in Utah County tax because I suspected most TOPP’s 9 would reside near MLM headquarters. (The earliest ones in an MLM tend to make the most money, and living near the company’s headquarters should be an advantage.)

    That was interesting. For comparison, I called 33 (a number equivalent to the first survey) Utah County CPA’s who do taxes. Bingo! Between them they could recall approximately 185 tax returns showing significant ongoing profits from TOPP’s in MLM during their careers. Last year alone (when recall would be most accurate), these 33 CPA’s taken together could recall 38 clients who had reported large profits from a variety of MLM’s—mostly companies based in Utah County such as Nu Skin, Enrich (now Unicity), Morinda, Synergy, and Neways.

    These TOPP’s were gaining most of their commissions from sales to a large downline of out-of-state recruits. Some TOPP’s were reaping checks ranging from tens of thousands of dollars a month to close to $1 million a month! Having a few rich "distributors" at the top of the pyramid is critical to the success of any pyramid scheme because they model "success", which helps entice others to join. The other major benefactors from these MLM’s are founders and company officials who manage the infrastracture.

    Though TOPP’s establish headquarters in Utah County from which to start recruiting a downline, they soon find local prospects resistant to "another MLM," so they travel to other areas where they can recruit "distributors" to whom they can sell products to "build the business." Then, as additional areas open up for recruitment, the TOPP’s rush in to be the first to build a downline. And since investors must go elsewhere to recover their investments, the MLM’s thereby evolve into Ponzi schemes.

    Again, the finding of profitable tax returns for TOPP’s residing in Utah County represents only a tiny percentage (less than 1%) of MLM "distributors." The rest lose – which poses an interesting question: What kind of business would have hundreds of thousands of "distributors" working for nothing – almost all of them at a loss? Answer – product-based pyramid schemes, or "recruiting MLM’s".

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    re: Why MLMs Never Release Their Financial Statements

    CPAs’ low opinion of MLM is influenced by experience with tax clients who participate in MLM.

    And what did Utah County CPA’s think of MLM?

    "It’s like any other business. Those who don’t make the effort will fail."

    "The problem is that the majority of people who sign up and expect to make money don’t really know how to sell – or don’t ‘work the system."

    "You have to work at it and be patient. If you stick with it, it can be very profitable."

    Seeing TOPP’s regularly as clients, MLM was not seen by Utah County CPA’s as a scam.

    Contrast these reactions with the opinions of CPA’s and other tax preparers in the three counties where no MLM profits were reported (and where no MLM’s are based):

    "There’s money to be made in MLM – at the top."

    "I would never advise a friend to do MLM – unless he needs a tax write-off."

    Some were even more critical:

    "It’s a scam."

    "It’s a pyramid scheme."

    "It’s quasi-evil."

    It appears that we see in MLM the most unique of business models—a profitable business with no real customers – and almost all "distributors" losing money!

    10. Stocks of MLM companies are a questionable investment. Not only are there few if any customers, but almost all distributors – on whom the business depends – are losing money (except for those at the top).

    With the recent run-up in price of stocks for Utah MLM companies such as Usana and Nu Skin, one has to wonder – just how solid are these companies?. They are, after all, totally dependant for their success on the success of their "distributors." Or is it possible that MLM "distributors" need not make a profit to be a success? In a legitimate business this would be the case, but in MLM downline "distributors" continue to purchase products on the basis of false promises that things will get better. Only they seldom do. Eventually, almost all drop out, and TOPP’s merely recruit more "distributors" to replace them. In this way TOPP’s cycle through pyramidal recruitment in an endless chain of victims. It is astonishing and outrageous that authorities allow this charade to go on indefinitely.

    Why would anyone invest in such a "business?" If the truth were widely known about these companies, no one would sign up as "distributors", and investors would be left holding the bag for collapsed pyramids!

    MLM officials counter that the "better MLM’s" offer a one-year return privilege for unused and unopened merchandise, usually subject to a 10% re-stocking fee. Refund requests are occasionally filed and satisfied. However, in ten years of research on this topic, I have yet to see a victim of a recruiting MLM become fully aware of the extent of the misrepresentations and fraud committed by the MLM company within one year of quitting. And they have usually used or opened the merchandise (being encouraged to do so to "build the business") and nullified the return privilege.

    Unfortunately, victims seldom complain to authorities, blaming themselves for their "failure." And some fear consequences from or to their upline – which could be a sibling or best friend.

    In April of 2003 I advertised for ex-distributors of Nu Skin Enterprises, Inc., to call and receive information that had been gathered about Nu Skin’s misrepresentations since its founding in 1994. After reading the REPORT OF VIOLATIONS that was filed with the Federal Trade Commission and with Utah’s Division of Consumer Protection, about two dozen victims of Nu Skin’s program could see clearly how Nu Skin had misled them. However, after almost a year of working with them, only two persons were brave enough and determined enough to come forth and file complaints—even though some had lost thousands of dollars. Since so few complain, law enforcement rarely takes action, and the fraud goes on.

    TOPP’s prefer certain tax preparers. The tax preparers we surveyed could be clustered. Those who did taxes for one TOPP tended to do taxes for several. (MLM people “network” – remember?) The bulk of the TOPP’s were served by a half dozen preparers. I noted that in one CPA firm, a single Utah County CPA had seen almost 100 profitable MLM returns during his 25-year career – while a partner in the same firm had never in 30 years seen one MLM client report significant profits (of over a few hundred dollars, which usually winds up being a loss, if purchases from the company are subtracted).

    One might expect that high-rolling TOPP’s would go to CPA’s, rather than to tax firms with lesser credentials. To check this, I called 33 non-CPA tax preparers in Utah County (like H&R Block and Jackson Hewitt). From these firms, only five returns had shown a significant profit last year from MLM participation—all from the same tax preparer. It seems the big TOPP’s prefer to use CPA’s for tax work, especially when commissions – and tax liabilities – are very large.

    Other observations of preparers. One tax preparer from H&R Block in Utah County, who had prepared over 10,000 returns over 32 years, said that all his MLM clients lost money, which averaged about $1,500 each.

    I called tax preparers in several other counties in Utah and Idaho – another state where some MLM’s are based, but not with as much concentration as in Utah. Again, a rare few TOPP’s reported profits, but the vast majority of participants reported losses. Over and over it was reported that no MLM participants reported significant profits selling products directly to consumers. Primary customers were their downline of "distributors"—usually from other areas.

    Utah TOPP’s are not recruiting successfully in Utah, but they are elsewhere. Not only are TOPP’s and their local downline not selling direct to local consumers, many Utah prospects are fed up with MLM recruiting. Though 56% of households in Utah County were approached to participate in an MLM "opportunity" last year, only 4.6% actually joined – and that is for all MLM’s combined!. So where are TOPP’s recruiting? Primarily outside Utah, where some have recruited huge downlines from less resistant populations – many of them in vulnerable countries overseas. Nu Skin, for example, has for several years gotten most of its revenues from unwitting Asian recruits.10

    11. MLM and nutritional supplements – the perfect combination for scams.

    Combine MLM misrepresentations regarding distributor earnings with the supplement boom, and you have a perfect recipe for consumer abuse—or legalized fraud, as some may call it. Since the passage of The Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA) in 1994 – drafted by Utah’s Senator Orrin Hatch11, which exempted companies that make supplements from seeking FDA approval before going to market, TOPP’s in MLM’s have gotten away with extravagant claims to recruit "distributors" and sell products. At least we know who’s getting the money in these MLM programs— and it’s not the people that buy into the "opportunity."

    12. Do MLM expenses qualify as tax write-offs?

    Many tax return preparers noted that a lot of MLM participants attempt to write off expenses from MLM year after year. These expenses are often very significant. They have been allowed to deduct them for three of five years so as long as "a business intent" can be shown.

    Since almost all MLM’s are merely product-based pyramid schemes, should expense write-offs be allowed (beyond offsetting revenues)? Gamblers and sponsors of race horses have severe limits on expenses that can be written off. Since the odds for many games of chance have been found to be better than the odds of profiting from a recruiting MLM, perhaps the same limitations should apply.

    Billions in federal and state tax revenues are forfeited, to say nothing of the tens of billions of dollars lost each year by MLM participants. Perhaps if MLM’s expenses were disallowed by the IRS, fewer recruits would join up.

    13. What can be done about MLM abuse?

    Consumer protection and other law enforcement personnel can get informed so that when MLM companies attempt to dupe them with claims of being legitimate "direct sellers," they can use the "5 Red Flags" discussed above to refute their claims. (See End Note 2 for a thorough explanation of the "5 Red Flags.") Also, with product-based pyramid schemes it is most effective to be proactive, rather than reactive. If an agency waits for complaints to mount up, it is usually too late to take effective action to protect consumers. The damage is already done and, in Ponzi fashion, the TOPP’s will have moved on to other areas.

    Ex-distributors willing to complain are the most potent witnesses against pyramid schemes. If you suspect misrepresentation and pyramid scheme abuse, be vocal and assertive in registering your complaints. Contact your state consumer protection agency—and the FTC for action on a federal level. You may get little attention acting alone, but if enough consumers complain, the agencies may at least try to contain the abuse. Unfortunately, in law enforcement it is often the squeaky wheel that gets the grease.

    You can also write letters to your local newspapers. Negative publicity is often the strongest weapon against MLM’s because it makes recruiting more difficult. If you warn and save one person from being defrauded by a recruiting MLM, make copies of this report and suggest that the person use it to warn five others and that they use it each warn five others, who in turn each warn five more, etc., etc.

    see chart:

    Tax Professionals Tell the Truth on MLM

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    littleroundman is offline Administrator
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    re: Why MLMs Never Release Their Financial Statements

    Excellent series of articles, ALA.

    And you haven't yet touched on the travesty which passes for the MLM attitude to advertising, and how the sycophants attempt to confuse the unwary with their B/S "we save money on advertising and pass it on" comedy routine/s
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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    re: Why MLMs Never Release Their Financial Statements

    Quote Originally Posted by littleroundman View Post
    Excellent series of articles, ALA.

    And you haven't yet touched on the travesty which passes for the MLM attitude to advertising, and how the sycophants attempt to confuse the unwary with their B/S "we save money on advertising and pass it on" comedy routine/s
    Thank you sir. That is an excellent point. We should expound on that.

    My fave was YTB because they owned Beryl Martin, the company that made all their brochures and other worthless marketing "tools" which were sold and peddled to the sheeple. They made money on both ends. lol You gotta love that.

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    iamwil is offline Senior Member
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    re: Why MLMs Never Release Their Financial Statements

    Quote Originally Posted by littleroundman View Post
    Excellent series of articles, ALA.

    And you haven't yet touched on the travesty which passes for the MLM attitude to advertising, and how the sycophants attempt to confuse the unwary with their B/S "we save money on advertising and pass it on" comedy routine/s
    We spend money on advertising....lots of it. We've got infomercials continuously running in the US...even FOXNEWS will take our money. Soon will be running them in Australia...we like television, radio, print and web advertising...it works.

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    littleroundman is offline Administrator
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    re: Why MLMs Never Release Their Financial Statements

    Quote Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
    We spend money on advertising....lots of it. We've got infomercials continuously running in the US...even FOXNEWS will take our money. Soon will be running them in Australia...we like television, radio, print and web advertising...it works.
    And ????

    This is germane to the point about MLM sycophants who claim: "we save money on advertising and pass it on" how, exactly ???
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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    iamwil is offline Senior Member
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    re: Why MLMs Never Release Their Financial Statements

    Quote Originally Posted by littleroundman View Post
    Excellent series of articles, ALA.

    And you haven't yet touched on the travesty which passes for the MLM attitude to advertising, and how the sycophants attempt to confuse the unwary with their B/S "we save money on advertising and pass it on" comedy routine/s
    Quote Originally Posted by littleroundman View Post
    And ????

    This is germane to the point about MLM sycophants who claim: "we save money on advertising and pass it on" how, exactly ???
    I don't know why they do that...I don't do that...I and my company and my fellow MLMers are perfectly glad to spend money on advertising....

    I guess that makes me not a member of your favorite sycophant club....I don't claim that...and we are mlm.

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    re: Why MLMs Never Release Their Financial Statements

    Quote Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
    I don't know why they do that...I don't do that...I and my company and my fellow MLMers are perfectly glad to spend money on advertising....
    You advertise? You -yourself? And where would that be exactly? On internet forums and in your signature? Having a coookie cutter website that all the others in Cactus Juice land have? Hand written index cards on a grocery store bulletin board? Where exactly do you advertise, how often, and what is your advertsing budget? Examples/copy would be interesting as well. This should be priceless.

    When did being an MLM distributor become "your company"? You have no company. You aren't even an employee of said company.
    Last edited by A Life Aloft; 08-06-2010 at 07:38 PM.

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    iamwil is offline Senior Member
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    re: Why MLMs Never Release Their Financial Statements

    I co-op advertise with the company...

    I have used classifieds and penny savers/thrifty nickels in the past.

    Will be doing more in the future...

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    re: Why MLMs Never Release Their Financial Statements

    Quote Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
    I co-op advertise with the company...

    I have used classifieds and penny savers/thrifty nickels in the past.

    Will be doing more in the future...
    You advertise in the Penny Saver?? LMAO! And explain the details of the "co-op advertising", what this costs you and in what publications/venues.

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    iamwil is offline Senior Member
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    re: Why MLMs Never Release Their Financial Statements

    Quote Originally Posted by A Life Aloft View Post
    You advertise in the Penny Saver?? LMAO! And explain the details of the "co-op advertising", what this costs you and in what publications/venues.
    Yes I have, and have got results...not enough for me to continue...

    Co-op advertising. Our company (I know you hate that...the company, the company I'm associated with..the company I have contractual relationship with....whatever floats your boat) advertises on TV, Radio, in Print and on the Web... they have extensive experience prior to the formation of TriVita in these venues working for other clients. They test market, retest, revamp etc. We provide funds and in return get customers which have purchased from the advertising, we followup with the customers and we have the right to future comissions based on their purchases. It is not required, but many folks utilize this system. Others use various methods of advertising on their own.

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    re: Why MLMs Never Release Their Financial Statements

    Quote Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
    Yes I have, and have got results...not enough for me to continue...

    Co-op advertising. Our company (I know you hate that...the company, the company I'm associated with..the company I have contractual relationship with....whatever floats your boat) advertises on TV, Radio, in Print and on the Web... they have extensive experience prior to the formation of TriVita in these venues working for other clients. They test market, retest, revamp etc. We provide funds and in return get customers which have purchased from the advertising, we followup with the customers and we have the right to future comissions based on their purchases. It is not required, but many folks utilize this system. Others use various methods of advertising on their own.
    You did not answer the part of my question where I asked you specifically what this costs you. What is the charge for this to you? Do you participate in this every month or what exactly is the term that you have to participate in this advertising? (length of time) Is there a minimum length of time? WHAT IS THE COST TO YOU for this participation and for how long?? Is participation mandatory? Is this part of a general monthly fee that you pay? If it is, how much are they taking out of every rep's monthly fee for this advertising and what proof do you have of this and/or that the money is being used for this?

    They advertise on tv and wherever anyways to garner business for themselves and not for you. What they have done in reality is not pay for this themselves then, but get the reps/members to pay for their advertising and chump them over a few customers here and there. lol

    Now let's say 100 people call in when they see one advertisement on television. And 500 reps are participating in these ads; that is sending in their little fee for these ads. How do they determine what members to give the sales to? What proof or numbers do you have in showing that all the reps get some customers form these ads and how many customers are dealing with Trivita directly and by passing all the reps? How many customers do they give each rep and is it equal and what proof do you have of this? How many customers do they keep for themselves and the proof of that as well. In a month of you paying for this advertising, how many new customers do you personally get? Details son, details.

    What "extensive experience prior to the formation of TriVita in these venues working for other clients" exactly do "they" have? Specifics. Not generalities. Names of who "they" are and who they worked for before.

    They certainly should also have the exact figures on how many customers that they get each month for each specific type of ad no matter how much it runs (print, radio, tv, web etc.,) What are those figures for each type of ad? They have to be tracking this. I'd like to see them.
    Last edited by A Life Aloft; 08-16-2010 at 06:36 PM.

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    re: Why MLMs Never Release Their Financial Statements

    You know its funny (well not really) how supporters of MLM try to say it is legal. Well I guess it is because lawmakers are not really enforcing the laws against a ponzi scheme. Some say they are only selling the product, not recruiting. Though if you have to purchase a certain amount of product each month at inflated prices, and then attempt to sell those said products at an even higher price. What do you call that? I call it what it is a scam. Who is going to buy something at an inflated price, when you can get the same damn thing at a lower price in the store?

    When you HAVE to buy product every month to be in the "business" it is a ponzi scheme period. MLM has always been about recruiting for profit.

    Good doctors for years have said you can get the best nutrition by simply eating healthy. There is no magic pill. To be healthy you simply have to eat healthy foods.

    So what does it always come down to with MLM's. They say no one has what we have, the product will sell itself. It's a government cover-up against us being healthy, so with your help we can stand against the government and provide products that will benefit everyone. You will be helping people, and making a PROFIT in the mean time. All because you cared enough about your fellow man, and BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.

    If you look at ALA posted, and I have seen that before though could not find it again. Those posts show clearly what all MLM's are, and I mean all MLM's. They are a scam.

    No one makes money except for the few who are involved at the top of the MLM (scam). What, some might make $400.00 to 500.00 a month after ripping off a lot of people and lying to them.

    How about the facts of the taxes of people in Utah who did MLM. Did I see that correct? One person who made a lot of money only to go bankrupt the next year.

    I guess he was expecting the pyramid to not fall, and bought himself all kinds of goodies on credit, and then the pyramid fell.

    There is nothing good nor redeeming about MLM, it is simply a scam IMHO.
    Last edited by Theophilus; 08-16-2010 at 10:59 PM.

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    re: Why MLMs Never Release Their Financial Statements

    Quote Originally Posted by A Life Aloft View Post
    You did not answer the part of my question where I asked you specifically what this costs you. What is the charge for this to you? Do you participate in this every month or what exactly is the term that you have to participate in this advertising? (length of time) Is there a minimum length of time? WHAT IS THE COST TO YOU for this participation and for how long?? Is participation mandatory? Is this part of a general monthly fee that you pay? If it is, how much are they taking out of every rep's monthly fee for this advertising and what proof do you have of this and/or that the money is being used for this?

    They advertise on tv and wherever anyways to garner business for themselves and not for you. What they have done in reality is not pay for this themselves then, but get the reps/members to pay for their advertising and chump them over a few customers here and there. lol

    Now let's say 100 people call in when they see one advertisement on television. And 500 reps are participating in these ads; that is sending in their little fee for these ads. How do they determine what members to give the sales to? What proof or numbers do you have in showing that all the reps get some customers form these ads and how many customers are dealing with Trivita directly and by passing all the reps? How many customers do they give each rep and is it equal and what proof do you have of this? How many customers do they keep for themselves and the proof of that as well. In a month of you paying for this advertising, how many new customers do you personally get? Details son, details.

    What "extensive experience prior to the formation of TriVita in these venues working for other clients" exactly do "they" have? Specifics. Not generalities. Names of who "they" are and who they worked for before.

    They certainly should also have the exact figures on how many customers that they get each month for each specific type of ad no matter how much it runs (print, radio, tv, web etc.,) What are those figures for each type of ad? They have to be tracking this. I'd like to see them.
    Please allow me to answer for Wil from another one of his valued posts which covers the subject of him answering another one of your questions. I'm sure I'll just save him the time of posting the same response and a canned typical one that I read a million times from the MLMers when cornered.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamwil View Post

    But somewhere along the line... I don't have to explain everything to you...you ain't buying the product, you ain't buying the opportunity, I don't need to open my books for you.
    Insightful, huh?
    GEORGE DRANICHAK - OWNER OF SCAM.COM, PORN MOGUL AND KING OF THE PORN SPAMMERS

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    re: Why MLMs Never Release Their Financial Statements

    In other words iamwill is saying he is showing no profit what so ever, or any profit worth mentioning.

    The facts do not lie, MLM is a scam, anyone involved in it is a scammer period.

    There is nothing good, nor redeeming about MLM.

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    re: Why MLMs Never Release Their Financial Statements

    It's only "good" for those at the top of the scam and the owners/founders of the scam who sign up morons like Will to pay them for nothing every month. It's real good for them. For Will and the rest of the sheeple like him........not so much! lol

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    re: Why MLMs Never Release Their Financial Statements

    Quote Originally Posted by Theophilus View Post
    In other words iamwill is saying he is showing no profit what so ever, or any profit worth mentioning.

    The facts do not lie, MLM is a scam, anyone involved in it is a scammer period.

    There is nothing good, nor redeeming about MLM.
    Not according to Wil. He says his MLM business has not generated a profit in 11 years yet he can sell it for over 50K. Now that is MLM math for you. I've asked to see any proof of the claim and I get brushed off each time. More MLM math. But hey, it's his money, his loss, his time, and he deserves to be screwed over. Anyone that ignorant is very deserving. However, he continues to hawk this bullshit in the hopes of screwing someone else and that's where I have a problem.

    Ethics in MLM? Nonexistent.
    GEORGE DRANICHAK - OWNER OF SCAM.COM, PORN MOGUL AND KING OF THE PORN SPAMMERS

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    re: Why MLMs Never Release Their Financial Statements

    Quote Originally Posted by Theophilus View Post
    In other words iamwill is saying he is showing no profit what so ever, or any profit worth mentioning.
    The revenue is worth mentioning, the benefits are worth mentioning, I'm completely appreciative of my time in MLM...and my current results...it is funny how disapointed you guys are, thanks for caring.

    I'll be using revenue to fly to Australia to market for two weeks in October...this will reduce most of the potential profit for this year... I'll enjoy the adventure, I've never been beyond North America...my travels have been restricted below Alaska/Calgary and below; Baja/Keys and above; east of Victoria Island/Olympic Penninsula/Baja and east of Newfounland and the Caribean... So Australia... not profit, but using revenue to build future business I consider a benefit.
    The facts do not lie, MLM is a scam, anyone involved in it is a scammer period.
    Interesting...according to you folks wouldn't actually 97% of them be scammed?

    How can there be 100% scammmers....it would mean no one was scammed therefor ZERO scammers...

    Your mlm math seems off again.

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    A Life Aloft is offline fled troglodyte invasion
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    re: Why MLMs Never Release Their Financial Statements

    And as usual Will, you lie, deflect, change the subject and never answer any direct and specific questions. You are a fool. You have the credibility of of lamb chop. I am waiting for the answers to all of my questions Will. All of them. Tom is right. You run your mouth but never say anything of any value or answer any questions with details and specifics. It's always some vague, off topic tired old generality with you. You are a typical MLM blowhard, slippery sheeple who is trying to convinve others that you are so well off and that everything is just peachy because of the MLM you are in. It's bullshit. Everyone can see it. Skip the bullshit. Tell the truth just once. I doubt you are capable of that however.

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    re: Why MLMs Never Release Their Financial Statements

    Quote Originally Posted by A Life Aloft View Post
    And as usual Will, you lie, deflect, change the subject and never answer any direct and specific questions. You are a fool. You have the credibility of of lamb chop. I am waiting for the answers to all of my questions Will. All of them. Tom is right. You run your mouth but never say anything of any value or answer any questions with details and specifics. It's always some vague, off topic tired old generality with you. You are a typical MLM blowhard, slippery sheeple who is trying to convinve others that you are so well off and that everything is just peachy because of the MLM you are in. It's bullshit. Everyone can see it. Skip the bullshit. Tell the truth just once. I doubt you are capable of that however.
    Somehow you think I owe you something?

    Yes I'm a typical MLM blowhard, telling you that I live on a yacht, commute from my bedroom to my computer, living in the lap of luxury, making huge MLM money?? Where do you see that? I tell you the truth....I work, I do mlm on the side...what a braggart I am...

    No I don't lie or deflect. You ask and I answer. However I don't have to answer all your questions nor live upto your expectations. You have your little visions of how I live my life, those are your dreams, not mine. You want to quit conversing with me...do so...but you can't...you are enamoured with me.

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    littleroundman is offline Administrator
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    re: Why MLMs Never Release Their Financial Statements

    Quote Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
    Somehow you think I owe you something?

    Yes I'm a typical MLM blowhard, telling you that I live on a yacht, commute from my bedroom to my computer, living in the lap of luxury, making huge MLM money?? Where do you see that? I tell you the truth....I work, I do mlm on the side...what a braggart I am...

    No I don't lie or deflect. You ask and I answer. However I don't have to answer all your questions nor live upto your expectations. You have your little visions of how I live my life, those are your dreams, not mine. You want to quit conversing with me...do so...but you can't...you are enamoured with me.
    No, no, wil,

    not "enamoured with you" at all.

    Determined to keep you posting, perhaps.

    Giving you enough prompts to enable the "truth" to be revealed to readers , more likely.

    It would be a sad day, indeed, if those who find MLMers in general to be less than ethical were forced to do their own "dirty work"

    Far better to continue to push buttons and allow the MLMers to do the deed on themselves.

    Keep it up, wil, you're doing a simply sterling job.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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