I'm seeing a lot of these gifting programs being pimped by known hyip players....
From what I can gather they are just cyclers under a new name...
So what's the deal with these??....How do they work??...
Most importantly are they legal??....
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I'm seeing a lot of these gifting programs being pimped by known hyip players....
From what I can gather they are just cyclers under a new name...
So what's the deal with these??....How do they work??...
Most importantly are they legal??....
Not in a month of Sundays are they legal:Quote:
Originally Posted by okosh
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/alerts/alt056.sht
In fact, they are perfect examples of an illegal "Pyramid Scheme" and what virtually every LE agency in the world considers fraudulent.
Read HERE for the relevant laws in each US state.
In Oz, they are considered to be pyramid schemes: ACCC ScamWatch website
Nope. Not legal at all. Tons of them have popped up over the last 6 months or so. My take is that they are devised to pull in the non traditional hyip players. Now, they will tell you they are legal saying you can give up to 10K or what ever it is per year under IRS regulations but that just a smoke screen to make the suckers feel good about what they are doing. Whats illegal is that they are nothing but pyramids. There is no disputing that.
There are some good U tube vids on this. I will try to find them. The reason you see so many of these is that they can easily spread to the unsuspecting that dont frequent the ponzi boards. The players know what the hell they are doing and it must be getting harder for them to steal money from newbies so they need to tap a new market. They can steal from each other till the cows come home for all I care.
Here is a dumb scammer that showed up on TV. The sad part is the idiot still has a website. This guy is there for the taking if the Feds want him.
YouTube - Cash Gifting Pyramid Schemes Identity Theft Expert Speaker www.IDTheftSecurity.com
The scammers website. What a joke.
Official Site of Ray Napier and Christian Kinney The Kings Of Automation!! Live Free or Get a Boring J.O.B
Thanks for the great links :RpS_smile:
I've been looking into the latest program being pimped by Ken Russo....
newvisions2011(dot)info....
Ken says that "for a one time gift of $10 could change your financial situation
starting NOW!....Get started NOW and SHARE with people who need to be blessed."
I visited the site and they seem to be doing their utmost to claim that this is legal....
From the tos....
This part I found most interesting....Quote:
Anyone seeking to profit from these endeavors is encouraged to investigate other opportunities available today - no such program is offered here. Participants give freely of themselves and expect nothing in return.
Guidelines have been established to maintain the integrity and high standards of this activity and to encourage respect for all other participants.
Participants are prohibited from representing the activity of New Visions 2011 as anything other than as stated above. Maintaining the integrity of this activity and the privacy of its participants are foremost to ensure that this activity remains viable for the long-term. It is our sincere wish and hope that all who join us will be visited by abundance by their attitude to giving.
New Visions 2011 reserves the right to modify the Activity and it's Guidelines at any time.
New Visions 2011 has a zero tolerance for spam. Any participant violating this will automatically be terminated from our activity.
No public meetings. Violation of this will result in automatic termination.
Members shall not give income projections or falsely misrepresent the New Visions 2011 activity as income producing.
They keep stating over and over that this is not an investment....Quote:
TERMINOLOGY
In communicating with others, it is VERY IMPORTANT that the appropriate terminology be used in order to maintain the ethics of this private activity.
PARTICIPANTS SHOULD ALWAYS use the following terminology in relation to this private activity:
Gift
Give
Giving
Gifter
I gave
I have gifted
Receive
I have received
I participate
Invitation
Invited by
Sharing an opportunity
Participant
Helping others
Register your gift
Kindness
Caring
Activity
Community
But Ken says "I have selected this activity because of the low cost to get started"
And...
"As you will see, the feeders are designed to
move very quickly."
So it's not an investment but clearly Ken has an expectation to see a return on the one off $10 spend....
I need to dig more into this cos there is got to be something I'm missing :RpS_unsure:
Ken's use of the "don't call it an investment" B/S is nothing more than a diversionary tactic.
It keeps the usual suspects quiet, nothing more.
The SEC doesn't trouble itself with "cash gifting" so there's absolutely nothing to be gained by not using the word "investment"
As shown in the links I posted, "cash gifting" scams are dealt with by the FTC(Federal Trade Commission) and states attorneys' General, under the banner of them being "pyramid schemes" NOT "securities fraud"
Likewise, In Australia, cash gifting and pyramid schemes are dealt with by the ACCC (Australian Competition and Consumer Commission) and NOT ASIC (Australian Securities and Investment Commission)
One of the "gifters" other favourite tricks is to give a different name to their particular scam, i.e. Circle of Friends," "Women Helping Women", the "Gifting Club", "Heart to Heart", "Gifts for Charity", "Renewal Celebration", "Women Empowering Women," "Women's Empowerment Network", "Women for Women," and the "Dinner Party, or "Dinner Clubs" or "Women Empowering Women Gifting Clubs" Crimes of Persuasion
In Oz, they have been variously known as "The Aeroplane Game" and "Original Dinner Party"
Dont forget Freedom Ring America which clearly played on patriotism. I joined that one before it got off the ground to stir up some doubts and did. It was so poorly run Im not sure what ever happened to it. They threw me out but there were two lady pimps from Kansas I think who still send me news letters. Some guy from Idaho was the kingpin.Quote:
One of the "gifters" other favourite tricks is to give a different name to their particular scam, i.e. Circle of Friends," "Women Helping Women", the "Gifting Club", "Heart to Heart", "Gifts for Charity", "Renewal Celebration", "Women Empowering Women," "Women's Empowerment Network", "Women for Women," and the "Dinner Party, or "Dinner Clubs" or "Women Empowering Women Gifting Clubs" Crimes of Persuasion
I specifically remember them saying to send cash only in the mail. They didnt want any paper trail.
These deals are just like cyclers basically. When the new recruiting IE money stops it will collapse from the bottom up but by then the key pimps have already made theirs and move on to the next.
That's something that always amuses me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Haskell
Cash gifting, by it's very nature ensures there IS a paper trail.
There has to be a name and address attached to each "gift" to make sure the money arrives at its' intended target, thus making the job of any investigator relatively easy.
Anyone who reads up on the prosecuted clubs I posted above will quickly realize it wasn't just those at the top who were prosecuted.
As LRM and others have already posted to this thread, these are all unlawful pyramid schemes. How could they not be? Where does the money to pay people come from, if not from new members? The definition of a ponzi is a scheme that requires new members' money to pay old members. All of the rest of the BS is just lipstick on a pig.
There is a lengthy thread on Quatloos which lays all of this out in the context of a scam called "Connecting Us All", which itself was a morph of an adjudicated ponzi called Elite Activity (whose founder went to jail). Certain major players here - SBM, Doc Bunkum, LRM - contributed, along with ProfHenryHiggins, who follows gifting scams pretty closely on several fora. A nice feature of that thread - a leader of Connecting Us All, one Valerie Lambert, actually participated. In my experience, that's unusual but welcome - after their toothless threats of lawsuits fail, the scammers generally just shut up in the hopes the discussion will burn itself out and slip off Google. But when a scammer participates, you get every smokescreen in the book - no one has to belong, the IRS permits gifting (hint: it's not an IRS matter), folks join out of altruism, no one expects to receive (yeah, right), etc. It also makes it clear that these guys will never answer the questions that matter.
So why aren't they shut down? Well, some of them (Elite Activity, for example) are. Generally speaking, though, these things are just not high LE priority. If you're dumb enough to believe that these guys can pick money from trees, you get what you deserve.
Who says there's no such thing as "coincidence" ????
Patrick Prettys' blog for Sunday 23 January is quoting this story about "cash gifting scams" from the New Haven Register:
Read the full story here: New Haven RegisterQuote:
WOMEN'S GIFTING TABLES TARGETED: Conn. authorities, feds zero in on popular pyramid scheme
Published: Sunday, January 23, 2011
By Susan Misur, Register Staff
smisur@nhregister.com
Women’s Gifting Tables — described by state law enforcement officials as illegal pyramid schemes — are quietly continuing, but investigators plan to turn up the heat soon.
New Attorney General George Jepsen has pledged to take a hard look at the gifting tables. The former attorney general, U.S. Sen. Richard Blumenthal, D-Conn, started the investigation.
And a source with knowledge of a federal probe says that some women involved are set to be questioned before a grand jury in early February.
The Women’s Gifting Tables caught the eye of authorities because most who participate put in thousands of dollars when they join and a few at the top rake in $40,000 in profits or more.
“Pyramid schemes are bad for the public,” Jepsen said recently. “This looks like any other pyramid scheme we’ve ever seen.”
Women are typically invited by trusted friends to attend introductory meetings where they meet other members. To join, each woman must pay $5,000 to the person at the top of the pyramid; once the person at the top receives a total of $40,000, someone else moves up and begins receiving money from newcomers.
The women gather weekly with members of their tables, bring new recruits, or share plans and ideas for their payouts. They insist what they’re doing is legal and say the tables are support systems, calling each other “sisters.”
However, Blumenthal and a national expert on pyramid schemes have said the tables are illegal and can’t continue indefinitely and exponentially because they will eventually run out of new members. And those at the bottom of the pyramids are left with nothing.
Jepsen said he hasn’t spoken to anyone who was invited to join or involved with the tables and that it was his own decision to continue trying to help unhappy participants.
The attorney general’s office is in the middle of its investigation, according to Susan E. Kinsman, director of communications
Edit:
I didnt see LRM's post above.
How is it that scammers like this Scott Miller, one of the largest gifting con artists around, are still able to continue to peddle their wares. He's even advertising in a Home Business Magazine published by Cutting Edge Media.
Which brings up another question: What is the responsibility of publishers and websites to check out the legality of what is advertised. I mean, if your local cocaine dealer wanted to advertise your local paper or on the radio, he surely couldn't, right?
Why do publishers let something as obviously illegal as cash gifting continue. And, with such a high profile scam artist as Scott Miller, why aren't the authorities on him like fleas on a dog.
Just baffles me . . .
ARWR
BBB Warns Cash Gifting Pyramid Schemes Flourishing Online
Online promotions promising easy wealth by joining a cash gifting program or gifting club are flourishing on the Internet. With many families struggling to make ends meet in the current economy, Better Business Bureau warns that cash gifting is not a legitimate way to make a few extra dollars, and in fact, is nothing more than a pyramid scheme.
Like most pyramid schemes of the past, cash gifting operations are targeting people with some form of an affinity – such as women’s clubs, community groups, church congregations, social clubs and special interest groups. But in keeping with the digital age, schemers have moved operations to the Internet and are now marketing their programs as easy ways to make money in a tough economy through videos on YouTube, paid ads on Google and attractive Web sites that engage victims.
According to TubeMogul, an online video analytics company, currently there are 22,974 “cash gifting” videos on YouTube, adding up to an astounding 59,192,963 views. While the creators of the videos vary, the content is usually the same. Typically, the person in the video explains—in vague terms—that they’ve discovered a new program to help people make money through cash leveraging or cash gifting and might even open a FedEx envelope with cash inside to prove the effectiveness of the program.
“Bernie Madoff isn’t the only guy with a ponzi scheme; money-making opportunities promising big returns for little work are all over the Internet and are extremely enticing to millions of people struggling with today’s economy,” said Steve Cox, BBB spokesperson. “Anyone tempted by slick cash gifting marketing appeals should run in the opposite direction, or they run the risk of being the next person ripped off by a pyramid scheme.”
Some cash gifting schemes are touted as fundraisers for a good cause or as an empowerment program to help people help themselves. In order to take part, the participant must pay anywhere from $150-$5,000. After making the contribution, which is funneled to people farther up the pyramid, the participant must then convince more people to join in order to start making money themselves.
Recruiters may claim that the operation is legal and often allude to IRS laws regarding gifting. However, almost every state has laws prohibiting pyramid schemes and/or assesses penalties on those who participate, and the Federal Trade Commission and many State Attorneys General have issued warnings about cash gifting clubs.
BBB advises people to ask themselves three questions in order to evaluate dubious money-making opportunities:
Do I have to make an “investment” or give money to obtain the right to recruit others into the program?
• When I recruit another person into the program, will I receive what the law calls “consideration” (that usually means money) as a result?
• Will the person I recruit have to make an “investment” or give money to obtain the right to recruit and receive “consideration” for getting other people to join?
If the answers are “yes,” BBB warns people to steer clear of the scheme, don’t give in to tempting claims online and never buckle under to high-pressure sales pitches, even when they come from the mouth of a trusted friend, co-worker, neighbor or church member.
For more guidance from your BBB on avoiding scams and other money making scams, go to www.bbb.org.
BBB Warns Cash Gifting Pyramid Schemes Flourishing Online - BBB News Center
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