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Thread: The mind of a scam victim

  1. #1
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    The mind of a scam victim

    Just wanted to post a discussion piece here.

    On several occasions scammers or people who have been lured into an illegal scam are very defensive to the facts presented to them. Is it the fact that they don't want to believe that they got suckered into something?

    I have encountered a few people who are willing to listen to the facts and take it for what it's worth but the vast majority go into defense mode and start cursing you.

    What are your thoughts?

  2. #2
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    Re: The mind of a scam victim

    I have been a long term admirer of the works of Elizabeth Kubler-Ross when it comes to recognizing the after effects of fraud on victims.

    The Kübler-Ross model commonly referred to as the "five stages of grief" or "On loss and grief" describes the stages through which many / most people pass after being defrauded as being:

    1) Denial

    2) Anger

    3) Bargaining

    4) Depression

    5) Acceptance

    I find it enormously helpful to approximate where a fraud victim sits on the scale before attempting to engage with him / her.

    Each "stage" is rarely standalone.

    In the situation you've described, for example, I would guess the person/s involved sit somewhere between the "denial" and "anger" stages.

    Once having recognized that fact, it doesn't take a genius to work out "logic" is not going to be a particularly helpful tactic to use in attempting to deal with the situation.

    As a real world example of Ms Kubler-Ross model in action, IM(very)HO a great many of the remaining Banners Broker members are heavily in a "denial" phase, in which case "logic" will play no part in influencing their behaviour/s.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  3. #3
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    Re: The mind of a scam victim

    Quote Originally Posted by BoBosworth56 View Post
    Just wanted to post a discussion piece here.

    On several occasions scammers or people who have been lured into an illegal scam are very defensive to the facts presented to them. Is it the fact that they don't want to believe that they got suckered into something?

    I have encountered a few people who are willing to listen to the facts and take it for what it's worth but the vast majority go into defense mode and start cursing you.

    What are your thoughts?
    As far as people who have been 'lured' into a scam, I can only tell you from my POV (Point of View). Not only do 'we' not want to believe we've been 'suckered' into something, because we all want to believe we are smarter than that, but we are pinning our hopes/dreams/wants/desires on something...anything...Anything that is something more than what is offered out 'there' in 'society'.

    We want more than, we want the 'fantasy' vacations, the 'fantasy' lifestyles, the 'dream life'. We want what we 'think' we want because 'society' says that is what we should want...what we should strive for. We want something so far outside of ourselves that we are willing to 'be conned'...'be taken'...'be suckered into'...'be lured into'...

    They want the 'naive', the 'gullible', the 'dreamers', the 'hopeless'...They want those who are 'suffering', who are 'hurting'...the 'desperate'...'those who think they aren't enough'...'who think they don't have enough'...THEY FEED OFF THAT...

    It all boils down to (in my opinion) emotions, not logic, and what society tells us we should have/want, and we feel less than if we don't...So along comes an 'opportunity' to give us all that...And those who are the scammers know this...they are 'schooled' in this...They are PROS at this psychological warfare...and when it comes to those desperate for something more than, something better than what they are living, what 'society' tells them they should be livng..THEY, the ones who have been 'taken in', don't stand a chance against the Pros...they just don't...

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  5. #4
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    Re: The mind of a scam victim

    There are a wide range of emotions that a victim of a Ponzi goes through. LRM has identified the five stages, and yes many of them are in more than one stage at a time. Some never get past stage 3 and then end up back at stage 1 for a period of time.

    Initially most feel embarrassed, guilt, blame themselves for being so stupid, dumb, ignorant or any other word you want to use for falling for the Ponzi. Many are too stunned to know what happened or what they think as their mind is numb. Some are anxious not knowing what they are going to do next or what else will happen to them. Some are so totally devasted they can't act for a long period of time as if in a daze. Then they start to go through the five stages. They also don't want any friends and family knowing about it either, unless one of them got them into it. Some are afraid they will lose stature with their fellow peers, or they will lose their job. As you can see it runs the gabmit. And all before they start through the five-step process.

    I get phone calls all the time from victims of these Ponzi's. I have heard it all. Some sob stories will make you cry and I don't care how tough skinned you think you are; you're not. And I thought I had heard it all, and then I get a call that proves me wrong. Here are just a few:

    I have had to comfort widow's because their husband committed suicide for losing their life savings. Sadly far more than once.

    I have spoken to men whose wives divorced them because he lost their life savings to a Ponzi, and his wife is fighting him from seeing their children.

    I have talked to couples on the brink of divorce due to losing their life savings to a Ponzi. One gentleman told me his wife looked at him with more disdain than she did with the person who scammed them, and it was killing him because she had lost all trust in him.

    I have talked to families that have been ostracized from each other because a family member brought the rest of then into their Ponzi.

    I have talked to grandparents who cannot see their grandhildren because they lost their life savings to a Ponzi and their kids won't have anything to do with them.

    There are even more horror stories I could mention, but you get the idea. I do list some of these in my book, and everyone is a true story. Bottom line is there is not just one way that a victim of a Ponzi will react.
    EagleOne
    Author: "Robbing You With A Keyboard Instead Of A Gun - Cyber Crime How They Do It" available in soft cover and eBook at Amazon.com

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    Re: The mind of a scam victim

    There are people, even on this forum, who will be merciless in their criticism of "victims"

    It only takes a few "serves you right" and "you brought it on yourself" and "you're nothing but greedy and deserve everything that happened" and "it's impossible to defraud an honest person" type comments and even the most innocent of victims will not only start seeing themselves as being somehow complicit in what has happened, but, become even more unlikely to overcome their shame and embarrassment sufficiently to complain to the authorities.

    It's not by accident HYIP ponzi shills and pimps come out after a HYIP ponzi collapses and start subtly inferring and implying the victimized member has somehow contributed to his/her losses.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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  9. #6
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    Re: The mind of a scam victim

    Quote Originally Posted by littleroundman View Post
    There are people, even on this forum, who will be merciless in their criticism of "victims"

    It only takes a few "serves you right" and "you brought it on yourself" and "you're nothing but greedy and deserve everything that happened" and "it's impossible to defraud an honest person" type comments and even the most innocent of victims will not only start seeing themselves as being somehow complicit in what has happened, but, become even more unlikely to overcome their shame and embarrassment sufficiently to complain to the authorities.

    It's not by accident HYIP ponzi shills and pimps come out after a HYIP ponzi collapses and start subtly inferring and implying the victimized member has somehow contributed to his/her losses.
    How right you are LRM. I was conned in the pre Internet era when I let some office space to a fine art thief. He conned me into believing that he was a fine art dealer. I allowed him to operate from my office for a few months. To make matters worse he claimed that, he was selling his house in France and looking for rented rooms. He conned both me and my husband and we allowed him to share our home as a paying guest. He did not steal from us but he got arrested and we were suspected of being his associates for a time. The police were wonderful once they had finished their investigations and they thanked us for coming forward as we had provided information which helped them recover some items and get the man behind bars for five years. They told us that very few people co-operated because of the mixed emotions which you and Lynne have mentioned in this thread.

    The worst was when depression hit me and I agreed to go to a psychiatrist. That man nearly wrecked my life for trying to blame me for having been conned. I can remember the relief when I spoke to my bank manager and told him what the psychiatrist was suggesting. The bank manager laughed and said, that if victims of con artists needed psychiatric treatment for becoming victims then almost every every bank or building society manager in the country would be under a psychiatrist.

    I understood the questions that the police were asking me and answering them was no ordeal but I did not understand the questions and suggestions that the bloody psychiatrist put to me, so he made my depression far worse. Fortunately I refused to swallow his pills for more than a few months as I had an excellent family doctor who told me that he had not believed the psychiatrist's diagnosis. He prescribed something different which I took for a few months and I got through the worst of a very bad spell..

    In short. Victims of ponzis and financial crime go through bad times but I know that all victims in any financial fraud including non ponzi type frauds have a tough time. Psychiatrists are not trained to treat financial fraud victims so it was his "it was all your fault" insinuations which caused me the worst distress. That psychiatrist set me on a downward spiral. I was going through the menopause at the time so my feelings were very mixed indeed and a psychiatrist was the worst "medicine." which I have ever taken. Never again.

    I was being pulled in two different directions. The police, bank manager and family doctor thought I was “not guilty “ but the psychiatrist thought my mixed emotions were based on guilt. The menopause made mood swings worse but I got through the depression and the menopause and emerged as a stronger person. Unfortunately the whole process took about two years.

    .
    Last edited by path2prosperity; 01-19-2013 at 03:05 AM.

  10. #7
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    Re: The mind of a scam victim

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleOne View Post
    There are a wide range of emotions that a victim of a Ponzi goes through. LRM has identified the five stages, and yes many of them are in more than one stage at a time. Some never get past stage 3 and then end up back at stage 1 for a period of time.

    Initially most feel embarrassed, guilt, blame themselves for being so stupid, dumb, ignorant or any other word you want to use for falling for the Ponzi. Many are too stunned to know what happened or what they think as their mind is numb. Some are anxious not knowing what they are going to do next or what else will happen to them. Some are so totally devasted they can't act for a long period of time as if in a daze. Then they start to go through the five stages. They also don't want any friends and family knowing about it either, unless one of them got them into it. Some are afraid they will lose stature with their fellow peers, or they will lose their job. As you can see it runs the gabmit. And all before they start through the five-step process.

    I get phone calls all the time from victims of these Ponzi's. I have heard it all. Some sob stories will make you cry and I don't care how tough skinned you think you are; you're not. And I thought I had heard it all, and then I get a call that proves me wrong. Here are just a few:

    I have had to comfort widow's because their husband committed suicide for losing their life savings. Sadly far more than once.

    I have spoken to men whose wives divorced them because he lost their life savings to a Ponzi, and his wife is fighting him from seeing their children.

    I have talked to couples on the brink of divorce due to losing their life savings to a Ponzi. One gentleman told me his wife looked at him with more disdain than she did with the person who scammed them, and it was killing him because she had lost all trust in him.

    I have talked to families that have been ostracized from each other because a family member brought the rest of then into their Ponzi.

    I have talked to grandparents who cannot see their grandhildren because they lost their life savings to a Ponzi and their kids won't have anything to do with them.

    There are even more horror stories I could mention, but you get the idea. I do list some of these in my book, and everyone is a true story. Bottom line is there is not just one way that a victim of a Ponzi will react.
    EagleOne, I want to share this over in the thread

    http://www.realscam.com/f9/scamlandp...6/index44.html

    and I hope you don't mind. These people that come in to read that thread are mainly concerned with what we say about adlandpro. Perhaps this could shed some light on the reason we continue to expose the trash on that site.
    Don't get ripped off!! Stay informed!

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