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Thread: universal life church scam?

  1. #1
    consolidation is offline Godwin's is straw
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    universal life church scam?

    hi all,
    the ULC ordained my refridgerator for 29$, it can now perform weddings (easier still ... if I buy the ulc celebrant pack) in California.

    Dont stress if you have no background or knowledge in the field, even dead people can be ordained which is quite a accomplishment ( see third link)

    This scam was started orignally as a tax dodge in the late 90's but when outed just splintered and now ULC novetly product company ordains anyone or anything dopy enough to part with 29$

    Last year I had my fridge Ordained, I am pretty sure it did not read or understand any of the non-existant supposed learning packs......this sort of proves they are really just novelty certificate providers but claim to be so much more!........ beware!


    here ae some more interesting links for this fake church and scammers

    Universal Life Church?? - Catholic Answers Forums :

    Pet Weds: Pet & Animal Nuptials

    Tennessee State Attorney General's 1997 Opinion on ULC ministers
    Last edited by consolidation; 03-09-2011 at 06:50 PM. Reason: spelling as per

  2. #2
    littleroundman is offline Administrator
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    Re: universal life church scam?

    You too can get into affinity fraud for next to nothing:



    http://www.themonastery.org/
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  3. #3
    truthteller is offline Junior Member
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    Re: universal life church scam?

    Quote Originally Posted by consolidation View Post
    hi all,
    the ULC ordained my refridgerator for 29$, it can now perform weddings (easier still ... if I buy the ulc celebrant pack) in California.
    There are several problems with your analysis. First, the ULC will not ordain inanimate objects, pets, fish tanks, cartoon characters or refrigerators. If you submitted a bogus name, you are the one who committed fraud, not the ULC. A California judge made this observation years ago when a San Jose police officer tried to bring an action against the ULC, showing that he had his dog ordained. The judge admonished him for his fraud.

    If you got a Social Security number for your refrigerator, would you then claim fraud on the part of the SSA? Try filing a tax return for your refrigerator. Go on. I dare ya to try it! I'll even send you letters while you're in prison to keep your spirits up!

    Secondly, the real Universal Life Church has NEVER charged a dime for ordination, and never will. There are lots of scammers online now using the name of the church to bilk people out of money. The posting shown above is an example of one group that began using the name in 2006, operated out of a UPS Store in Seattle, and doesn't even have church services that are open to the public. Another in Florida is run by a three-time loser, a convicted criminal now claiming to be the President of the Universal Life Church World Headquarters. Neither of them has any connection to the famous church founded by Kirby Hensley in Modesto, CA in 1959.

    California "celebrant pack"? Total scam. There is no such package and nothing of the sort required in California. In those few states that require a minister to provide documentation for a legal purpose, the church headquarters will provide it at no charge (except if it must be notarized, the minister is asked to pay for the notary). If you doubt, call any county clerk in California and ask them!

    Federal courts have repeatedly held that ULC ministers are real ministers and entitled to the same status as any other, as have state courts, the City of New York, and others. The state of North Carolina passed a law specifically clarifying that ULC ministers are ministers, entitled to officiate marriage in that state. They did so because people like you were spreading lies and telling people their marriages were not valid because they used a ULC minister!

    You searched for legal cases, so you could not have found the irrelevant cases you cited here without also coming across those others that strongly affirm the ULC. Yet for some reason, you decided not to post anything that refuted your agenda. Not really honest of you.

    You can object to the Universal Life Church's doctrine of ordaining all who ask (including prisoners, as well as judges, police officers, nurses, fire fighters, EMT's, lawyers, doctors, and janitors). That is your right, to believe as you wish, and the ULC would be the first to defend your right on that score. But you have no basis to refute the ULC's status as a legitimate church, simply because they don't adhere to your restrictive view of religion and how a church should operate.

    You certainly can't call it a scam, when they give away ordination and all needed documentation to support it, and NEVER solicit donations or even pass the plate at services. Oh yes, they have services. In a real church building, every Sunday morning, and it is open to the public. If you giving things away without charge a scam, then please tell me what you call it when churches demand that members give 10% of their income to the church or be told that they are "robbing God"!
    Last edited by truthteller; 08-11-2012 at 11:42 PM. Reason: To provide external links to legal citations.

  4. #4
    consolidation is offline Godwin's is straw
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    Re: universal life church scam?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthteller View Post
    There are several problems with your analysis. First, the ULC will not ordain inanimate objects, pets, fish tanks, cartoon characters or refrigerators. If you submitted a bogus name, you are the one who committed fraud, not the ULC. A California judge made this observation years ago when a San Jose police officer tried to bring an action against the ULC, showing that he had his dog ordained. The judge admonished him for his fraud.

    If you got a Social Security number for your refrigerator, would you then claim fraud on the part of the SSA? Try filing a tax return for your refrigerator. Go on. I dare ya to try it! I'll even send you letters while you're in prison to keep your spirits up!

    Secondly, the real Universal Life Church has NEVER charged a dime for ordination, and never will. There are lots of scammers online now using the name of the church to bilk people out of money. The posting shown above is an example of one group that began using the name in 2006, operated out of a UPS Store in Seattle, and doesn't even have church services that are open to the public. Another in Florida is run by a three-time loser, a convicted criminal now claiming to be the President of the Universal Life Church World Headquarters. Neither of them has any connection to the famous church founded by Kirby Hensley in Modesto, CA in 1959.

    California "celebrant pack"? Total scam. There is no such package and nothing of the sort required in California. In those few states that require a minister to provide documentation for a legal purpose, the church headquarters will provide it at no charge (except if it must be notarized, the minister is asked to pay for the notary). If you doubt, call any county clerk in California and ask them!

    Federal courts have repeatedly held that ULC ministers are real ministers and entitled to the same status as any other, as have state courts, the City of New York, and others. The state of North Carolina passed a law specifically clarifying that ULC ministers are ministers, entitled to officiate marriage in that state. They did so because people like you were spreading lies and telling people their marriages were not valid because they used a ULC minister!

    You searched for legal cases, so you could not have found the irrelevant cases you cited here without also coming across those others that strongly affirm the ULC. Yet for some reason, you decided not to post anything that refuted your agenda. Not really honest of you.

    You can object to the Universal Life Church's doctrine of ordaining all who ask (including prisoners, as well as judges, police officers, nurses, fire fighters, EMT's, lawyers, doctors, and janitors). That is your right, to believe as you wish, and the ULC would be the first to defend your right on that score. But you have no basis to refute the ULC's status as a legitimate church, simply because they don't adhere to your restrictive view of religion and how a church should operate.

    You certainly can't call it a scam, when they give away ordination and all needed documentation to support it, and NEVER solicit donations or even pass the plate at services. Oh yes, they have services. In a real church building, every Sunday morning, and it is open to the public. If you giving things away without charge a scam, then please tell me what you call it when churches demand that members give 10% of their income to the church or be told that they are "robbing God"!
    Wow ...the really scary part is that you think you have provided some form of justification for your online divinity scam. The issue is not who is fake ordained...but who is actually intellectually prepared or trained to competently handle the role. A certificate via the Internet that my fridge or the dog has just does not seem proper preparation to ensure caring and informed grief counselling etc.. Time to wake up and smell what you are shovelling.
    Find the light and leave the dark side ...oh money worshiper. Remember he cast them out.
    That'll do.

  5. #5
    truthteller is offline Junior Member
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    Re: universal life church scam?

    Quote Originally Posted by consolidation View Post
    Wow ...the really scary part is that you think you have provided some form of justification for your online divinity scam. The issue is not who is fake ordained...but who is actually intellectually prepared or trained to competently handle the role. A certificate via the Internet that my fridge or the dog has just does not seem proper preparation to ensure caring and informed grief counselling etc.. Time to wake up and smell what you are shovelling.
    While you are certainly entitled to hold a contrary religious belief, you are not entitled to redefine the word "scam."

    Either you did not read what I posted, or else you simply chose to ignore whatever didn't fit with your agenda. The ULC does not ordain dogs or refrigerators, and if you submitted your dog or refrigerator's name for ordination, you committed a fraud, similar to if you had applied for a Social Security card or Taxpayer Identification Number for them.

    You can't call something a scam simply because it doesn't conform to your restrictive view of religion. There is no charge for ordination, and the ULC provides all required documentation whenever it is required to perform a legal function, such as marriage. The church maintains a full-time support staff, providing help and guidance to all who ask, without any discussion of money. The church does not solicit donations, and the only source of support for the church's considerable operating expenses are the completely optional degrees, courses, certificates and ceremony books which are available to those who want them. If you have found a church which does not offer any books or materials for sale, does not solicit donations (or perhaps even compel them as a condition of membership), then I congratulate you. However, I suspect that you simply choose to ignore (or "justify" as you say) the substantial income generating activities of your preferred religion. If you are going to claim that there is a scam, you have to show where the scam occurs and offer some explanation for your accusation if you expect your charge to be considered seriously.

    As to the "proper preparation" you reference, the ULC requires the same preparation that Jesus required of his disciples. If you wish to require specific training your minister, that is your right. But you want to require everyone else to follow the rules you have established for yourself. That is not freedom.

    Indoctrination is often counter-productive. If your church wishes to follow such a path, go for it! Although I assure you that many good and qualified people have been kept from the ministry in such churches, because of their gender, unwillingness to accept 100% of the church's dogma, or lack of funds to attend an expensive seminary.

    Newspapers are filled with accounts of ministers who, having been "properly prepared", selected and indoctrinated, have proceeded to embezzle, molest, and abuse their congregations. The fact that they were endorsed by their church made them even more dangerous, because it implied that they could be trusted.

    If you wish to debate the merits or fallacies of a religion, take it to a religious forum. You posted that the church is a scam, yet you offered no evidence of that, simply that you don't like the open and free nature of the way the church ordains ministers. You believe that before offering comfort and support to others, they must first be properly indoctrinated. So choose your personal minister on the basis of those qualifications. You have no right to choose for others what qualities they ask for from their minister. And certainly nothing you have offered has any bearing on the topic, which is whether or not the ULC is a "scam".

    "Neither this Court, nor any branch of this government, will consider the merits or fallacies of a religion. Nor will the Court compare the beliefs, dogmas, and practices of a newly organized religion with those of an older, more established religion. Nor will the Court praise or condemn a religion, however excellent or fanatical or preposterous it may seem. Were the Court to do so, it would impinge on the guarantees of the First Amendment."

    James F. Battin, U.S. District Judge
    Universal Life Church vs U.S.A. (1974)

  6. #6
    scratchycat's Avatar
    scratchycat is offline Elite Scambuster
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    Re: universal life church scam?

    Universal Life Church

    601 3rd Street, Modesto, CA

    Google Earth shows a building with sign on side showing Universal Life Church.

    ULC_church_building.jpg

    Read carefully before applying for ordination

    Please do NOT use this form to report address or name changes - to report record changes, click here

    Please avoid using the same email address for more than one person if at all possible. The email address is used as a record identifier and must be unique for each person. Do not submit someone for ordination without their permission and approval.

    Each request is reviewed for completeness. You must include a complete, legal name. Spiritual names and initials only are unacceptable for ordination records. If your legal name is initials only, or your legal name is one word only, include this information in your application, or it will be rejected. Do not include a title or any postnominals on your application. Frivolous names will be rejected whenever we notice them. If your parents had a sense of humor when naming you, we may reject your application initially, but upon explanation, we will reconsider. No one is rejected because of their name, but we must protect the integrity of the records against those who fraudulently submit requests for pets, obscene names, etc. Applying for ordination in the name of a fictitious person or animal, or the submission of a person's name without his or her permission is fraud.

    Please understand that there is no such thing as "instant online ordination." A computer cannot ordain you. Your request must be reviewed before your ordination can be done legally. You cannot be issued a credential automatically by a computer!

    If you do not have an email account, you may obtain one for free, which you can access via any computer on the Internet, from such services as msn.com or yahoo.com. Without a valid email address, you will not receive confirmation of your ordination.
    Never knew you could be ordained online, wow!

  7. #7
    path2prosperity's Avatar
    path2prosperity is offline Elite Scambuster
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    Re: universal life church scam?

    They can if they buy crap like Michael Clayton's "Letters from Christ"

    See post 273 about Michael Clayton's scam
    Last edited by path2prosperity; 08-13-2012 at 03:45 PM.

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    littleroundman is offline Administrator
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    Re: universal life church scam?

    truthteller, you can rationalize, justify and lay blame as much as you like but, tomorrow morning, consolidations' fridge will STILL have been ordained by your church, as will the thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of other equally ridiculous "ordinations" performed by The Universal Life Church under the guise of "religious freedom"

    Don't like the fact a great many thinking people consider The Universal Life Church at best a joke and, at worst, a scam ???

    Then tell it to stop acting like one.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  9. #9
    consolidation is offline Godwin's is straw
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    Re: universal life church scam?

    Truth teller, my old man used to say...who is the bigger fool the fool or the fool who argues with the fool?

    I have consulted the ordained fridge and found you self flagellating. As the fridge Mr Kelvin Ator is as sage as you proclaim I will abide by its verdict , Ulc is a novelty store dressed up as a religion.
    Hope you wake up soon, I will pray for yor guidance.

  10. #10
    truthteller is offline Junior Member
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    Re: universal life church scam?

    There is no record of a Kelvin Ator having been ordained by the real Universal Life Church (the one shown in the photo above). If it had been slipped past those who review the ordination applications, it would have been because they accepted in good faith that the person was submitting their genunine name, and you couldn't blame them for that. There are funnier names. Possibly you went to one of the bogus knock-off Web sites with your fraudulent application?

    It is telling that you keep repeating the charge, yet you have yet to provide any evidence of a scam, nor to refute any of the information I have supplied for you. I guess you consider that if you repeat a lie often enough it will become the truth?

    If you wish an honest debate, complete with facts and logic, I would consider this worthy of discussion. However since you only engage in schoolyard taunts and refuse to provide any support or documentation, I think your grandfather's counsel is wise and appropriate.

    Bottom line is that if you don't like the church, worship elsewhere, or not at all. If someone doesn't believe that Jesus turned water into wine, walked on water, and raised the dead, will you be content for them to call your church a scam for saying so?

    Religious freedom is the point here. If you don't believe that people have a right to worship in a way that you consider a joke, there is nothing left to discuss. That conversation has nothing to do with the claim you made here that the church is a scam.

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    littleroundman is offline Administrator
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    Re: universal life church scam?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthteller View Post
    There is no record of a Kelvin Ator having been ordained by the real Universal Life Church (the one shown in the photo above). If it had been slipped past those who review the ordination applications, it would have been because they accepted in good faith that the person was submitting their genunine name, To be more correct, that should read "it COULD have been any one of a squillion reasons, including the fact no one really checks and you couldn't blame them for that. Funny, I thought we just did There are funnier names. were we discussing funny names ?? Possibly you went to one of the bogus knock-off Web sites with your fraudulent application? And possibly we didn't

    It is telling that you keep repeating the charge, yet you have yet to provide any evidence of a scam, nor to refute any of the information I have supplied for you. I guess you consider that if you repeat a lie often enough it will become the truth? You're right, you're GUESSING

    If you wish an honest debate, funny, I must have missed the memo saying that's what we are wishing for complete with facts and logic, I would consider this worthy of discussion. What YOU consider is none of our business However since you only engage in schoolyard taunts Mate, I was never this conscious of nonsensical pseudo religions at school and refuse to provide any support or documentation, support and documentation are what courts require, this is the court of public opinion I think your grandfather's counsel is wise and appropriate.

    Bottom line is that if you don't like the church, worship elsewhere, or not at all. This is not about where, or, indeed whether people worship If someone doesn't believe that Jesus turned water into wine, walked on water, and raised the dead, will you be content for them to call your church a scam for saying so? Strawman

    Religious freedom is the point here. If you don't believe that people have a right to worship in a way that you consider a joke, there is nothing left to discuss. We're not discussing. We're using OUR freedom to ridicule and scorn what is, in OUR opinion is an absolute nonsense (poorly) disguised as a religious institution That conversation has nothing to do with the claim you made here that the church is a scam.
    Ain't the internet grand ??

    People can stand on their head in the corner of the room whistling the theme from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, call it a religious ceremony, baptize refrigerators and form a church, while others can give point out the absurdity of such behaviour all from the comfort of their chair.

    Mate, if you want to call what your institution does "religious freedom", go right ahead.

    Just don't expect to be able to do so free of ridicule when said institution engages in such nonsensical activities as are being carried out in the name of the Universal Life Church.

    Just think of scorn, ridicule and derision being natures' way of preventing the spread of serpent handling worshipers into the mainstream of religion.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  12. #12
    truthteller is offline Junior Member
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    Re: universal life church scam?

    You claim you went to the real Univeral Life Church with your fraudulent application. Then why don't you post the document of your refrigerator's "ordination"? I contacted church headquarters in Modesto and they said they have no record of anyone with the name Kelvin Ator in their files.

    Ridicule, scorn and derision are all fine. You may recall that Jesus Christ endured the same, so that is quite irrelevant to your claim here. You said the church is a scam. But when asked to back up your claim, you revert to ridicule.

    Do you still maintain that the church is a scam? Or do we agree that your claim is now simply that it is a ridiculous church? I hold the same opinion of many churches, as do lots of others. So that would be a moot point, and certainly not what this Web site claims to be about.

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    littleroundman is offline Administrator
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    Re: universal life church scam?

    See the thread title, truthteller ??

    universal life church scam?


    See that little ? at the end ??

    I don't know about where you are, but where I live, that's called a "question mark"

    As in: "the original poster is asking a question"

    See the logo in the top left hand corner of your screen ??



    Is it ? Or isn't it ? YOU decide

    Obviously, you HAVE decided.

    As have others.

    Personally, if I was serious about my church and someone pointed out its' practices were being misused and abused, what I'd do about it would NOT include arguing with the person who pointed out the incongruities between what I intended to happen and what is actually happening.

    The again, I happen to believe in such matters, it's more important to be "effective" than it is to be "right"

    YMMV
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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    truthteller is offline Junior Member
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    Re: universal life church scam?

    The original poster wrote: "This scam was started orignally as a tax dodge in the late 90's but when outed just splintered and now ULC novetly product company ordains anyone or anything dopy enough to part with 29$."

    You said that if the church doesn't want to be perceived as a scam, it should "stop acting like one."

    But neither of you have explained where you believe a scam is occurring. You have criticized the activites and operations of the church, since it does not conform to your restrictive view of how a church should operate, and who it should ordain. That is simply a different view of religion. The Universal Life Church has always been a staunch advocate of your right to have your own peaceful religious beliefs, even if one of them is that the ULC is ridiculous.

    You now claim you are just asking questions. But that is not honest. You and the OP have suggested there is a scam, but you both steadfastly refuse to explain what the potential "scam" is that you are merely asking questions about.

    Also, what are these practices that are being misused and abused, and what do you suggest be done? I honestly don't even know what you are getting at with that comment. It is a little hard to decipher your post through the fog of condescension and sarcasm.

    There will always be those who abuse freedom. We have seen this demonstrated clearly in geopolitics recently, and in some cases there is nothing that can be done. If we are to enjoy freedom, we must extend it to others, and accept that some may abuse it.

    You can split hairs as to the definition of the purpose of this Web site, but either way, the question remains, "Where is the scam?"


    By the way, the church did not begin in the 1990's, it was founded in 1959, and has been registered with the California Secretary of State as a not-for-profit corpration in good standing since 1962:

    ulcsos2.jpg

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    consolidation is offline Godwin's is straw
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    Re: universal life church scam?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthteller View Post
    The original poster wrote: "This scam was started orignally as a tax dodge in the late 90's but when outed just splintered and now ULC novetly product company ordains anyone or anything dopy enough to part with 29$."

    You said that if the church doesn't want to be perceived as a scam, it should "stop acting like one."

    But neither of you have explained where you believe a scam is occurring. You have criticized the activites and operations of the church, since it does not conform to your restrictive view of how a churh should operate, and who it should ordain. That is simply a different view of religion. The Universal Life Church has always been a staunch advocate of your right to have your own peaceful religious beliefs, even if one of them is that the ULC is ridiculous.

    You now claim you are just asking questions. But that is not honest. You and the OP have suggested there is a scam, but you both steadfastly refuse to explain what the potential "scam" is that you are merely asking questions about.

    Also, what are these practices that are being misused and abused, and what do you suggest be done? I honestly don't even know what you are getting at with that comment. It is a little hard to decipher your post through the fog of condescension and sarcasm.

    There will always be those who abuse freedom. We have seen this demonstrated clearly in geopolitics recently, and in some cases there is nothing that can be done. If we are to enjoy freedom, we must extend it to others, and accept that some may abuse it.

    You can split hairs as to the definition of the purpose of this Web site, but either way, the question remains, "Where is the scam?"


    By the way, the church did not begin in the 1990's, it was founded in 1959, and has been registered with the California Secretary of State as a not-for-profit corpration in good standing since 1962:

    ulcsos2.jpg
    I suggest you go over to scam.com......this has been interesting but you present straw men...In your own quote of me ...read it....the scam orginally started in the 90's ....and before that it was just a quaint little gathering of like minded people...probably good people till their leader went down the scam and tax dodge path....I won't argue with you any more , please readers do some of your own research which is all we ty to provide here...some food for though on topic that are designed to allow readers to make up their own minds. Trutheller uses the old trick of post 3-4 post in a row in order to remove easy access to any post disagreed with. It works well I suppose but doesn't stop this fake church being what it is....a novelty certificate provider that represents itself as a religious organisation....post away trutheller . Ps if you had actually contacted them you would know my address.. Ie where they posted it too .....as well as our very reverend dog.
    Last edited by consolidation; 08-16-2012 at 08:51 PM.

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    truthteller is offline Junior Member
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    Re: universal life church scam?

    You have yet to explain what the scam is.

    It is you who keeps posting the same thing repeatedly without ever one addressing the question this Web site purports to be about.

    What is the scam? Who gets defrauded, bilked or swindled by the ULC, and how?

  17. #17
    consolidation is offline Godwin's is straw
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    Re: universal life church scam?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthteller View Post
    You have yet to explain what the scam is.

    It is you who keeps posting the same thing repeatedly without ever one addressing the question this Web site purports to be about.

    What is the scam? Who gets defrauded, bilked or swindled by the ULC, and how?
    Just had my goddaughter ordained, took 4 days via an eBay ad from the ULC! As soon as she is old enough to talk ( only 7 months old) I will start her learning the marriage rites...Lol ULC the novelty product provider that keeps on giving! See the links in the first post or a few more for those who have trouble with reality.

    Become Ordained by the Universal Life Church

    Universal Life Church?? - Catholic Answers Forums

    http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-9th-circuit/1233516.html

    http://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=19283

    Or just do a simple wiki check for the tax fraud stuff , they used it in the 60's and 70's to try to dodge the draft as well ...one hour ordinations....quite clever really.

  18. #18
    NaturalSpiritism is offline Junior Member
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    Re: universal life church scam?

    I'm sorry to tell you this but Universal Life Church is not a scam. Due to freedom of religion in the USA, one is able to be ordained a minister just as ULC offers. Universal Life Church offers a great opportunity for those who can't get a certification otherwise. You can get a degree in Theology at college, but you can't get a degree in smaller religions, and then ULC is the only way.

    What ULC is doing is absolutely great! Not only are they exercising their freedom of religion, but they're inviting us to do the same.

    You just can't accept this, so you keep ordaining things inappropriately (in other words, YOU are committing fraud) to prove an invalid point. Why are you arguing with ULC when you KNOW they're not a scam, even if you disagree with their system?

    Find a better argument. Universal Life Church is not a scam, so your argument here is invalid. If you hate them so much, why don't you think of a better way to attack them without making yourself look like a hateful idiot?

  19. #19
    littleroundman is offline Administrator
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    Re: universal life church scam?

    Welcome to REALSCAM.com NaturalSpiritism.

    When it comes to people hiding behind religion to deceive and profit from others, there's no "making myself look like a hateful idiot"

    I AM a "hateful idiot.

    You may like being a member of a group which calls ordaining a fridge "religious freedom" and good luck to you.

    Others don't.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  20. #20
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    Re: universal life church scam?

    Quote Originally Posted by consolidation View Post
    hi all,
    the ULC ordained my refridgerator for 29$, it can now perform weddings (easier still ... if I buy the ulc celebrant pack) in California.

    Dont stress if you have no background or knowledge in the field, even dead people can be ordained which is quite a accomplishment ( see third link)


    LOL - I always just thought that this type of stuff was a novelty/gag thing.........

    ......and then you start this thread and people actually come here defending the honor of the business by citing religious freedom.

    Wow.

    We should start a side business selling magical invisible fairy dust. It wouldn't be a scam....if we say we "believe" in the fairies, right?

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    Whip is offline Anonymous. As are you all
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    Re: universal life church scam?

    Quote Originally Posted by oldfriend View Post
    LOL - I always just thought that this type of stuff was a novelty/gag thing.........

    ......and then you start this thread and people actually come here defending the honor of the business by citing religious freedom.

    Wow.

    We should start a side business selling magical invisible fairy dust. It wouldn't be a scam....if we say we "believe" in the fairies, right?
    The amega wand us close enough.

  22. #22
    oldfriend's Avatar
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    Re: universal life church scam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Whip View Post
    The amega wand us close enough.


    Heheh - Reminds me of those little "balance bracelets" they sell in Mall kiosks.

    Restoring energy and creating vibrational peace in your system.........or something like that.


    All stuff and nonsense.....

  23. #23
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    Re: universal life church scam?

    Regarding the ordination of a layperson upon request simply by filling out a form...with no real training or experience, this seems more a money grabber than anything.

    Pay me some money and I'll give you a piece of paper that says you are a minister.


    This isn't really about religious expression; but rather a church figuring out a way to turn a buck.

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    consolidation is offline Godwin's is straw
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    Re: universal life church scam?

    I wonder if I pay a bit of extra money and have my refrigerator or god daughter pay for a ordination course...could I make some dollars by having people read rubbish provided by ULC and then staring At my refrigerator for a weekend?

    ULC= novelty tax evading toilet paper scam...or just a few foolish, easily led and easily fleeced customers.

  25. #25
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    Re: universal life church scam?

    Quote Originally Posted by consolidation View Post
    I wonder if I pay a bit of extra money and have my refrigerator or god daughter pay for a ordination course...could I make some dollars by having people read rubbish provided by ULC and then staring At my refrigerator for a weekend?

    ULC= novelty tax evading toilet paper scam...or just a few foolish, easily led and easily fleeced customers.


    Better yet, you could have your fridge grant ordinations.........you could live like KINGS!!!

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