Thread: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam

Looking to BB members who also have an account with Paypal. Could you compare the fees involved in transfering money between the likes of the BB accepted processors(STP etc) and Paypal. Thanks in advance.

Originally Posted by noname999

Looking to BB members who also have an account with Paypal. Could you compare the fees involved in transfering money between the likes of the BB accepted processors(STP etc) and Paypal. Thanks in advance.

Sent you PM with some information in. Vector/paypal only.

Originally Posted by noname999

Looking to BB members who also have an account with Paypal. Could you compare the fees involved in transfering money between the likes of the BB accepted processors(STP etc) and Paypal. Thanks in advance.

noname, I use paypal and have for years. I regularly transfer >$10k out of my account. The transfer fee is exactly $0. I've never had to provide them who any sort of identification, just registered my corporation bank account with them and my federal employer identification number.

This is all within the USA, although I take payments from several countries. I never send money out of my account internationally, but I just checked and depending on destination country the fee is from 0.5% to 2%.

This whole PayPal question and defense by Terry is kind of silly. If I were an international company the size if BB it would be very simple to set up a legal entity in each country I do business in, have a Paypal account for each of those entities, and do the Paypal transfers totally in-country, and avoid all international fees. I could fund the PayPal accounts from my central bank account (wherever it is) for zero fees other than currency exchange.

Not to change the subject but I was wondering if anyone in the USA could comment on this. I just received my 1099 from PayPal for 2012. I had heard in the past that BB was going to be issuing 1099s to USA members. Did that ever happen? I'd be very curious as to what name, address, and federal ID number they used to issue that 1099?

@samuel

What's a 1099?

I've sent noname some stuff from paypal.co.uk and fees vary depending on how much business you do.

In reality, using Paypal would have been the best way forward. Only drawback is the legitimacy of the business - but feel free to tell me I'm wrong.

Originally Posted by AshKen1

@samuel

What's a 1099?

I've sent noname some stuff from paypal.co.uk and fees vary depending on how much business you do.

In reality, using Paypal would have been the best way forward. Only drawback is the legitimacy of the business - but feel free to tell me I'm wrong.

The nonsense about fees is just that, nonsense. The real reasons that BB won't do business with Paypal is because they'd a) come under the scrutiny of the US authorities and b) Paypal will clawback or hold any funds they consider as being funds for or the result of, criminal activity.

If the best that BB, sorry BBI can come up with is Terry Stern I don't think they'd stand a cat in hell's chance of convincing any kosher financial institution, or government department that they are a legitimate business.

Originally Posted by AshKen1

@samuel

What's a 1099?

I've sent noname some stuff from paypal.co.uk and fees vary depending on how much business you do.

In reality, using Paypal would have been the best way forward. Only drawback is the legitimacy of the business - but feel free to tell me I'm wrong.

And that's the only reason they won't use it. Or direct bank transfers for that matter.

Originally Posted by samuel.r

noname, I use paypal and have for years. I regularly transfer >$10k out of my account. The transfer fee is exactly $0. I've never had to provide them who any sort of identification, just registered my corporation bank account with them and my federal employer identification number.

This is all within the USA, although I take payments from several countries. I never send money out of my account internationally, but I just checked and depending on destination country the fee is from 0.5% to 2%.

This whole PayPal question and defense by Terry is kind of silly. If I were an international company the size if BB it would be very simple to set up a legal entity in each country I do business in, have a Paypal account for each of those entities, and do the Paypal transfers totally in-country, and avoid all international fees. I could fund the PayPal accounts from my central bank account (wherever it is) for zero fees other than currency exchange.

Not to change the subject but I was wondering if anyone in the USA could comment on this. I just received my 1099 from PayPal for 2012. I had heard in the past that BB was going to be issuing 1099s to USA members. Did that ever happen? I'd be very curious as to what name, address, and federal ID number they used to issue that 1099?

They have until Jan 31 to get the 1099s out to whoever needs them in the States.

The fees with Paypal would be about the same as the other processors and NOT substantially more as indicated my Mr. Stern.

Also @ littleroundman regarding the posts from MMG: there actually HAVE been some payouts reported since the beginning of the year but they have been sparse. So Slarv is incorrect on that one.

We can be critical but we should be accurate.

Mark

Originally Posted by marsh56

Also @ littleroundman regarding the posts from MMG: there actually HAVE been some payouts reported since the beginning of the year but they have been sparse. So Slarv is incorrect on that one.

We can be critical but we should be accurate.

Mark

Yep,

that's another thing newbies to HYIP ponzis can only learn through experience.

They're what's called "selective payments" by regular HYIP ponzi players.

All the HYIP fraudsters have to do is make occasional payments to members and "monitors" they KNOW will report they've been paid on the usual suspect forums, and they can keep a dead HYIP running for months.

Originally Posted by marsh56

The fees with Paypal would be about the same as the other processors and NOT substantially more as indicated my Mr. Stern.

Also @ littleroundman regarding the posts from MMG: there actually HAVE been some payouts reported since the beginning of the year but they have been sparse. So Slarv is incorrect on that one.

We can be critical but we should be accurate.

Mark

It was reported they got paid. The problem is that I can make up a false payment record from any of the payment processors, but that does not mean that "I got paid." Another problem is we know they all lie, so it is hard to know when they are telling the truth and when they are lying. And has LRM has said, they do make 'selective' payments to give the appearnces that it is paying.

Remember, they said "all" members got paid by the 23rd of December. I know that is not true. Mr. Stern even admitted that was not true. He said there were those who had issues with their BB mastercard, incorrect password, did not provide the required ID proof, in other words it was the members fault. You see the problem is we can't know if those reasons was really true or not. I'm sure some of then were, but "all" that didn't get paid?

Originally Posted by EagleOne

It was reported they got paid. The problem is that I can make up a false payment record from any of the payment processors, but that does not mean that "I got paid." Another problem is we know they all lie, so it is hard to know when they are telling the truth and when they are lying. And has LRM has said, they do make 'selective' payments to give the appearnces that it is paying.

Remember, they said "all" members got paid by the 23rd of December. I know that is not true. Mr. Stern even admitted that was not true. He said there were those who had issues with their BB mastercard, incorrect password, did not provide the required ID proof, in other words it was the members fault. You see the problem is we can't know if those reasons was really true or not. I'm sure some of then were, but "all" that didn't get paid?

there is also another important note, the vast majority of BB recruits are NOT looking to withdraw but doing as advised and waiting for panels blah blah before they attempt to take their money out. So, if you exclude this assumed huge number of BB members ( my recruiter being one) who believe that they are making it big time next year, the number of withdrawal requests overall must be a small, considering, the existing number of members, not requesting withdrawal, pending bigger payments down the road, newer members being told to wait, to let their panels complete first are the majority. Makes those not being paid, a drop in the barrel in terms of the overall membership?

So when blah blah gets on line and says wow, payout today etc, we are really speaking about a tiny number of members.

Get your point , but want to clarify that the 'all ' getting or not getting paid are not the majority. IMHO, the majority of BB members are not looking to be paid each and every time.

Originally Posted by noname999

Looking to BB members who also have an account with Paypal. Could you compare the fees involved in transfering money between the likes of the BB accepted processors(STP etc) and Paypal. Thanks in advance.

yeah, easy -

paypal - over 260$ it's free of fees less it's 2$, in my country.. (bank withdraw)
payza - no withdraw other then visa payza card.. you can't withdraw to any bank in the world right now and have been for almost a year and you can transfer to bank too.. you can't tansfer to debit/credit cards.. so just visa card that payza prints..

stp - you need to jump thru hoops to get stp to work for you, the site does not look professional, loads so slow and you need to complete those things that looks like missions to get access to withdrawing your money or even starting to think about it..

the only way to really get money is by getting banners broker visa card, and you know what does that mean? more info given to banners broker, like mothers name.. (wow..)

when I got my money to payza I had to pay to someone to transfer the money from payza to payal.. but it was better then waiting for payza to fix their stuff!

BB card limits from Vector's TOS:

"You can deposit additional amounts on your prepaid Card in US Dollars, which will be added to the existing Prepaid Card. The maximum reload amount per prepaid Card is $2,500.00USD with maximum per Prepaid Card per month of $10,000.00USD.

Your Prepaid Card allows you to access your funds from any MasterCard or Cirrus Automated Teller Machine (ATMs), MasterCard merchants that accept cards, on websites requiring payment via credit card or at any MasterCard issuer worldwide. The maximum daily ATM withdrawal amount is $1,000.00USD; however you may need to visit more than one machine to withdraw the maximum limit. The maximum daily POS purchase limit is $2,500.00."

perhaps Mr Stern is personally known at SP, or was headhunted . This is the only job app I can find for SP, note the address and company profile

[url=http://www.searchingtoronto.com/jobs/display_job/48329/PHP-Programmer.html]PHP Programmer Job Postings in Toronto | Search Classified

and this one from 7 days ago (?) for

BBhttp://www.simplyhired.ca/a/jobs/list/c-banners+broker


are they expanding or having probs keeping staff?

Originally Posted by Brenda

perhaps Mr Stern is personally known at SP, or was headhunted . This is the only job app I can find for SP, note the address and company profile

PHP Programmer Job Postings in Toronto | Search Classified Listings

Awwww they didn't take the time to fill out the company profile bit. What a shame, would have been interesting to see what was there

Originally Posted by Brenda

This is the only job app I can find for SP, note the address and company profile

PHP Programmer Job Postings in Toronto | Search Classified Listings

and this one from 7 days ago (?) for BB

Banners Broker Jobs | Simply Hired Canada

Nice find, Brenda... prompting me to sharpen my special dot-connecting pencil.

The address in the first ad is...

Stellar Point Inc.
167 Church St.
Toronto, Ontario (Canada)

...and in the the second ad it says...

"This is a Full-time 9am-5pm job working out of our downtown Toronto office loft."

As I reported in a previous post, this is the address of a condo out of which Banners Broker/Stellar Point's DYZ Media arm operates. Knowing now that it has a loft, we can take a peek inside that very (or very similar) abode...

http://www.torontorentals.com/167Church/ (see the '2 Bdrm with Loft' tab)

Toronto Rentals must have known I was coming; the building's general description is given thus:

"A heritage-inspired building, Jazz is a grand 28-storey residence offering stunning views of the city and waterfront. Located in the heart of downtown Toronto, Jazz is situated only blocks from Ryerson University."

Call me a conspiracy nutjob, but mention of that by now familiar educational institution has sparked an idea:

Given that it's a residential, not commercial, block... given that Chris Smith is an 'IT guy', creator of the Silverline Club cycler website we now know... given that Emma Farquharson, producer of the Choice Network site content, works in the Jazz building... given that they're advertising for a programmer to work there, too... is the whole web development side of the scam actually being run out of Chris Smith's apartment?

Originally Posted by Julie Diligent

Nice find, Brenda... prompting me to sharpen my special dot-connecting pencil.

The address in the first ad is...

Stellar Point Inc.
167 Church St.
Toronto, Ontario (Canada)

...and in the the second ad it says...

"This is a Full-time 9am-5pm job working out of our downtown Toronto office loft."

As I reported in a previous post, this is the address of a condo out of which Banners Broker/Stellar Point's DYZ Media arm operates. Knowing now that it has a loft, we can take a peek inside that very (or very similar) abode...

Toronto Condo-Style Apartment For Rent | 167 Church Street | Condo-Style Apartment Rentals Toronto (see the '2 Bdrm with Loft' tab)

Toronto Rentals must have known I was coming; the building's general description is given thus:

"A heritage-inspired building, Jazz is a grand 28-storey residence offering stunning views of the city and waterfront. Located in the heart of downtown Toronto, Jazz is situated only blocks from Ryerson University."

Call me a conspiracy nutjob, but mention of that by now familiar educational institution has sparked an idea:

Given that it's a residential, not commercial, block... given that Chris Smith is an 'IT guy', creator of the Silverline Club cycler website we now know... given that Emma Farquharson, producer of the Choice Network site content, works in the Jazz building... given that they're advertising for a programmer to work there, too... is the whole web development side of the scam actually being run out of Chris Smith's apartment?

I've been holding off a bit on my research, waiting to see how things were going to pan out over the last few weeks. Truly thought it would be gone by now?!

@Julie

Your dot-connecting pencil seems to be working really well at the moment!!

Awesome stuff!!

Originally Posted by AshKen1

@Julie

Your dot-connecting pencil seems to be working really well at the moment!!

Awesome stuff!!

Thanks, Ash.

Here's something you can all connect the dots for. In fact it could even be a scambusters mascot:

connect_the_dots.gif

Need a clue?

Well... if it looks like one, walks like one, and quacks like one, then...

Originally Posted by Julie Diligent

Thanks, Ash.

Here's something you can all connect the dots for. In fact it could even be a scambusters mascot:

connect_the_dots.gif

Need a clue?



Well... if it looks like one, walks like one, and quacks like one, then...

hmmm, looks like a wild canadian goose (chase) to me lol

Samuel /Ash,
Posted this over on Finch's earlier:



SwissSkyBlue says:

January 19, 2013 at 6:00 am@Terry

I have asked you three or four times now:
Why do your paying organisations need certified copies of the affiliates passports in order to pay them when PayPay does not.
You have given me all sorts of waffle and nonsense, but you HAVE NOT ANSWERED THE QUESTION.
So let me ask you yet again Terry: You claim that your online paying organisations must have certified copies of affiliates passports in order to comply with international money laundering laws. PayPal do NOT need certified copies of affiliates passports in order to comply with international money laundering laws.
Without going into any other waffle or explanations, can you PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION?

I have openly stated that it is my opinion that BB will not use normal, reputable payment methods because it does not suit BB’s needs to use delaying tactics when pretending to make payments. It would be very, very difficult to make the ridiculous claims that you make about your payment organisations if you used PayPal or normal banks or cheques.
This is my opinion Terry, and nothing you have said in your several responses comes remotely close to answering this very simple question, so nothing you have said has come close to changing my mind about you and BB being a scam.

I have seen several comments here and elsewhere in resonse to my questions and your replies that affiliates would gladly pay the PayPal fees if this meant that they would actually get some real money into their real bank accounts.

And of course, your replies mislead people about fees because in fact the total cost of transferring money through your current systems exceeds any PayPal fees, but cost is really not relevant at all, becauseof course, any such fees would be peanuts in comparison to the humungous amounts of money BB is making for their affiliates, so affiliates will gladly pay PayPal or cheque fees if it means they really get their money.

If an affiliate was to say to you – yes, please, please, please pay me through PayPal and I will gladly pay any extra fees that might involve, will BB do that? If an affiliate said please, please do send me a cheque for my money and I will galdly absorbe any additional costs involved, will BB do that?
You know as well as I do that BB could and should do exactly that, but my opinion Terry is that BB will not do that because they have no intention of paying most of the people owed money by BB, so BB will not use any standard, normal, reputable payment methods where they cannot claim all the problems that are “delaying” the payments for so long.

Believe me, I would like to be proved wrong as your organisation has dragged in a family member of mine and I would like to see him at least get his money back, so please give me something to make me believe you are not a scam and you are not evil repeat criminals out to scam the people who can least afford it.

So Terry, what I am asking is very, very simple. Are you going to provide a proper answer or not?


There is a logical reason that I keep on hammering on about this. It is surely one of the classic ploys of scams that they do not use normal payment methods as they are then not able to use the payment delaying tactics they have to use to run their scams and keep their money.
I therefore want anyone thinking of investing in these scams to realise that they are using these alternative payment schemes for nefarious purposes, and I further want them to see that the scammers are not able to give a sensible answer as to why they will not use normal and reputable payment methods.
I know I am not going to get a sensible answer out of BB, because there is no sensible answer they can give. They use disreputable payment services because the disreputable payment services will do their bidding and serves their payment delaying tactics, whereas reputable payment services would not (quite apart from the fact that I believe that reputable payment services would simply refuse to do business with BB and their ilk).
I mean, can you imagine BB trying to convince their affiiates that payments were delayed for weeks because PayPal or Bank of America servers were being changed and that it would take days or weeks for them to get back online? Not even the BB drones are that stupid.
Hence, I push the payment services issue and will keep on doing so as it is a visible disparity to any potential investor. After all, what any potential investor is after is money, and if there is doubt from the outset about ever getting your money out (unless you get into the scam early), then an investor is less likely to invest.

1099 is a USA Internal Revenue Service (IRS) form that anyone doing business in the USA where they are paying someone in the USA for any type of service must document the compensation paid. For example, you work for me occasionally to do some website development as a freelance programmer. I pay you $2500 over the course of the year. At the end of the year I file a 1099 with the IRS and I send a copy to you. When you do your personal income taxes the IRS will be looking for you to show the $2500 in income that matches up with the 1099.

I have a feeling there will be no 1099s from BB and the reason given will be that this is not an independent contractor or hired services relationship...it's simply a small business where the member is buying and selling a product (colored panels).

I just asked because BB had definitely said they would issue USA 1099s in the past, and wondered if it actually happened. I'm not holding my breath...

On the PayPal point, here is what I would have done if I were a business the size of BB:

Establish a legal entity in each country I do business in.
Set up a bank account in each country.
Tell my affiliates if you want to get paid, set up a direct-deposit to your own bank account.

Zero fees, period. This is exactly how Google does it. You are an Adsense affiliate, you get paid directly to your own bank account from them, in-country. They say they pay you by the 25th of each month and you can set your watch to it, without fail. Google would never screw around with PayPal, stp, MasterCard or whatever.

can someone tell me how to screenshoot a page?

Samuel,

Setting up a legal entity in each country only works if you want to pay taxes in that country, which can get very hairy indeed. The problem with that is, you are creating a PE (Permanent Establishment), and as any international accountant or tax specialist will tell you, you do not want to start creating PE's all over the world unless you want to start spending serious money on lawyers, tax advisors, auditors, paying taxes, filling in forms, explaining to some local tax authorities why you don't want to pay them taxes on your world-wide income, getting into the intricacies of multiple double-taxation-treaties etc. Even if BB were a legitimate business, setting up PE's in every country is quite legitimately the last thing they would want to do.
Google I assume does business in all of the countries they set up PEs in, plus they have the money and kudos to employ top consultants to make top deals with tax authorities, maybe getting exeptions as "representative offices" as opposed to in-country businesses etc. etc.
Believe me, your response would be the wrong answer for most organisation.

For Swiss & Sam inc. you are correct, but we are talking about a supposed $200m or more company. With those resources and revenue in play it is not wrong to do exactly what I said. Google deals with corp taxes pretty creatively:

Google avoids $2B in global taxes with Bermuda shelter

No reason BB couldn't put transfer pricing in place just like their big brother, Google.