Thread: TriVita: Develop a Relationship with God?

There is already a thread on TriVita here: http://www.realscam.com/f16/product-...al-b-12-a-260/

Not only is their main product prickly pear juice extract, a highly invasive plant that is basically worthless (never proven to have any medicinal effects), it's used as a food for the poor in Mexico and the USA. Now if you people feel that this product is something substantial and will cure your ailments, then by all means buy the ****. Better yet, become a distributor from our former forum contributor and proven liar, Iamwil. Afterall, he said he was going to AU to attend the launch, said he did go, and it's been proven that unless his IP extended from the USA to AU, he was sitting at home in front of his TV in his undies scratching his balls. Well, considering he has any left.

My thoughts(fuzzy though they may be)
There may be totally legal and ethical MLMs out there, but when humans intervene with a profit motive, the system becomes quickly subverted. Almost always a comparable product is available for less, so value for the money is absent. When the company and distributors make all these claims about how marvelous the product is, but then throw out the disclaimers, "These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA", or "this product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease." I choose not to deal with MLM's because even the"legal ones use tons of hype and BS to pull in members. Typical of MLM, the top tier sucks up all the money and the bottom distributor are busting their tails.

Originally Posted by laidback

My thoughts(fuzzy though they may be)
There may be totally legal and ethical MLMs out there, but when humans intervene with a profit motive, the system becomes quickly subverted. Typical of MLM, the top tier sucks up all the money and the bottom distributor are busting their tails.

I agree with your thoughts. (my thoughts may be fuzzy also) but I just don't trust anything in the MLM arena legal or not.

Originally Posted by A Life Aloft

Osh, take your blinders off for a second.

I don't have blinders on but you clearly do...

You could not have possibly read through the material on all the links that I have provided for you, digested any of it and not seen the red flags.

Yea I read most of your long winded stuff but like I said b4...I work on fact and not your opinion....
When you can show me what Trivita is doing illegal here then you'll gain some credibility....
Till then you just got an opinion and a bea in your bonet....

That's obvious by your continued comments which seem to focus solely on the commercial you saw, and the fact that Trivita has been let into your country to do business and nothing else. Nothing else. Not one single comment on all the material which I provided for you to read. Not one. You never read any of it did you? And if you did, you dismissed ALL of it. Why is that, Osh? You have no acomments to any of the other members here who commented on Trivita either. Why is that?

I'm not interested in what Trivita did in America....Only what they do here....

I don't plan to follow what Trivita does in your country in case you thought that I would. (I have no idea why you assumed that I would in the first place- like it's my job or something lol) I have better things to do with my time and I have already been involved in the discussions here and on Scam regarding Trivita. I have studied their products and if you had bothered to do fifteen minutes of a google search, you would have seen hundreds of affiliates on various forums, blogs and sites making phony medical claims about their products. Apparently you are too lazy to do this.

Then you have nothing more to add here

I think you should sign up and join and let us know just how much money you make. You can be our own little reporter here.

LOL...You got some nerve being critical of me and your claim that I didn't read what you posted....
Clearly you did not read what I posted....
I said I was not involved in it and only looked into it cos someone asked me to....

So thanks to "A Life Aloft" we seem to have the answer....
Trivita may be a **** investment and you'll be unlikely to profit from it but it's not a scam....

Thanks A Life Aloft for your help

Frankly Osh, I couldn't give a **** less what you think about me or Trivita. You're just another anonymous asshole on the internet. Nothing less and nothing more.

Originally Posted by A Life Aloft

Frankly Osh, I couldn't give a **** less what you think about me or Trivita. You're just another anonymous asshole on the internet. Nothing less and nothing more.

Firstly the name is "okosh"....
And secondly the only asshole here is you

I don't believe this entire site was set up to satisfy the likes of the TalkGold and Adland fools that have invaded it. okosh, you have been duly warned about the evils of TriVita and their useless products. So join, use the stuff, pay an arm and leg for it, recruit, go broke again, and then come here and whine some more. You imbeciles actually deserve to get fucked. And why do I know that you will continue to do so?

Originally Posted by Unsaved Trash

I don't believe this entire site was set up to satisfy the likes of the TalkGold and Adland fools that have invaded it. okosh, you have been duly warned about the evils of TriVita and their useless products. So join, use the stuff, pay an arm and leg for it, recruit, go broke again, and then come here and whine some more. You imbeciles actually deserve to get fucked. And why do I know that you will continue to do so?

Who said anything about joining, recruiting buying or anything else??....Just trying to learn more about this one that is being launched here in Aus....
And what's with the name calling and insults??....Is asking questions not allowed here??....

I think I get it now....You're "A Life Aloft" under another user name

Originally Posted by Unsaved Trash

I don't believe this entire site was set up to satisfy the likes of the TalkGold and Adland fools that have invaded it.

A bit over the top there don't you think.

Originally Posted by okosh

Who said anything about joining, recruiting buying or anything else??....Just trying to learn more about this one that is being launched here in Aus....
And what's with the name calling and insults??....Is asking questions not allowed here??....

You did ask the questions and you were given answers. You choose to argue about an established MLM sleazebucket company that is based out of the US with totally worthless and overpriced products. Let's put it this way, an alligator that is exported from the US to AU is still going to bite. Just because it's in a different country doesn't make it a different animal.

The biggest problem is that the US doesn't enforce or investigate much of anything and that's why these types of companies can rip off the public and expand. If you actually read both of the threads on TriVita and their product Nopalea, you're still asking questions, well then I don't know what to tell you except try it out yourself and then get back to us.

I think I get it now....You're "A Life Aloft" under another user name

You would be massively incorrect. Disagree? Ask a mod or an admin. My history is well known.

Okay, I think both sides need some clarification here. Okosh is not being taken in by or promoting this scam. What is being sought is something that actually violated the letter of the law down under. Unlike the U.S., other countries and jurisdictions actually do shut down and prosecute the promoters of deals like this. If we can give Okosh something concrete to take to the authorities that is what is requested.

In the U.S. it is a veritable scammers paradise. The vast majority of scams fly under the radar and are not shut down as the authorities are underfunded and understaffed. Only the biggest scams that make the national news shows are gauranteed to be prosecuted. So, we American scambusters are certainly not thinking along the same lines that those of you from other places are thinking. We are often too quick to conclude that one inquiring about a scam is openly soliciting it or secretly involved.

Now, I am going to request that everyone here be more supportive of one another. We are a community. I also suggest that folks remember we are all adults and though the 2 admins and 2 mods do our best to keep an eye on things it does not always stay as civil as might be desirable. There is no way the site can meet the expectations of everyone involved as it is a very diverse group of people who have very different, goals, backgrounds, experiences and objectives etc. Many of us our very passionate about our
online posting, myself included.

The site should not be judged by a handful of its members actions, but by the overall content and atmosphere of the site itself. Obviously, folks who violate the rules and are a detriment to the site will be banned, but if I banned everyone here who had someone complaining about them there would be virutally no one posting here. So, I will again recommend the ignore poster button. I also suggest folks do keep these upstairs of the forum a little more friendly. A good fight can always be moved to the rant section. That is exactly why we have one.

My best to all our posters here.

Soapboxmom

I have been reading this thread with incredulity. First just because it is a MLM Program does not make it a "scam." What makes it a "scam," or an illegal pyramid scheme is when there is no product, and the only revenue is from selling memberships, i.e. MPBToday.

I do detest MLM's business model, but as long as at least 51% of their income comes from "retail sales," and there are viable products to "sell," they are legal. It is up to the FTC to regulate this industry.

While TriVita is scummy it is not a scam, even here in the US. The FTC could fine them for false advertising, but I seriously doubt they would close the company down. They would just fine them and make them clean up their marketing and sales pieces to comply with the law.

From what I have read, they have filed the proper paperwork with the Australian authorities and the authorities have licensed them to do business there. A point that Okosh has pointed out in several posts. What Okosh has said has been 100% correct, but he has not said he "supports" the company, or is rushing to sign up as a member or distributor. He has also said that if given "proof" they are a scam, he would report them to the proper Australian authorities immediately.

There is no doubt that "all" of us do not like the MLM industry, but that does not make every MLM a scam. We just don't like their business model or marketing of their products. For if all MLM's were scams/illegal pyramids, none of them would be in business today. The entire industry would be banned by the FTC.

There are true "MLM Scams" that are an illegal pyramid, and they need to be shut down. They deserve our attention to do as much as we can to get them shut down. If we believe that TriVita is not selling enough retail product by the members and distributors to classify as 51% of their income, then we need to report it to the FTC, and let them investigate.

Just adding my two cents worth.

Excellent points. I would still contend that all MLMs are scams because there is such a huge failure rate that the companies and reps always gloss over that and leave recruits with the impression they have an excellent chance of profiting when they are in fact mathematically doomed.

Trivita might have more than 51% of the products go to retail customers, but even if that makes it technically legal in some jurisdictions it would still doom the vast majority of reps to losing money. I love what Quatloos titles its MLM forum -- MLM Scams Forum (as if any of them aren't). I think that says it all!

The SEC shut down that scam PAS. Occasionally the Attorney General's office in a state (even the one in Texas on very rare occasion) shuts these deals down. So, there is always slight hope this deal will get shut down. Unfortunately, judging from the numbers I can find it is quite small and insignificant so it may well limp along for a while until it implodes on its own as Eiro and many others have done as the recruiting and sales dwindle.

Trivita | Financial Seminar

The Efficiency Percentage represents the percentage of customers and Business Affiliates within the model that place a monthly commissionable order. Although the Efficiency Percentage is adjustable between 0% and 100% it should be noted that 100% efficiency (which indicates a business in which every customer and Business Affiliate is placing a monthly commissionable order) is not realistic and has never been achieved. Realistic Efficiency Percentages vary based on a Business Affiliate’s own skills, personal effort, and time devoted to the business as well as market conditions. Percentages beyond 40% are not considered average or typical. More realistic percentages are between 20% and 40%, with 40% being the high end.....

The model is intended to reflect the possible range of compensation for Business Affiliates who actively work his or her TriVita business. During the period from January 1, 2004 through November 30, 2006 the top 10% of Business Affiliates (764 out of 7,640 Business Affiliates) who actively worked his or her business earned average compensation of $1,475 per month, the top 5% of Business Affiliates (382 out of 7,640 Business Affiliates) earned average compensation of $2,438 per month and the top 2% (153 out of 7,640 Business Affiliates) earned average compensation of $4,471 per month. These segments represent Business Affiliates who have put the most time and effort into their business and have the greatest number of customers within their organizations.

Well, now we know the reorder rate is abysmal. We also know there were very few active reps. And, knowing that many unsuccessful reps are morphed out of those figures we can be sure the paychecks are minicule and few and far between.

Trivita | MLM Training - MLM Leads | Group Reign

MyLeadSystemPRO® is primarily an educational services company that focuses upon giving our customers knowledge. Our most successful customers have applied this information to their primary business, whether that is selling nutritional supplements, diet products, or any other direct marketing or multi-level marketing endeavor. Information regarding our customer’s success is both difficult to quantify and proprietary to their businesses. Consequently, we do no have any empirically valid data indicating the amount profit growth, if any, that our customers achieve from applying our information and techniques to their primary businesses. Only some of our members receive revenue from MLSP®-related affiliate-marketing activities. For the month of October 2010, we sent checks to 34% of affiliates with had an active account. The average amount of each check was $168.
This income disclaimer was last updated on November 5, 2010.

These clowns barely averaged enough to cover autoship. Though they were teased with

This FREE Presentation is for serious Trivita Business owners ONLY who are 100% dedicated to reaching a $10,000+ Per Month Income with their Trivita Business. If that is not you, please leave this page now.

So, I am quite comfortable calling this deal a scam.

Soapboxmom

Originally Posted by Soapboxmom

Okay, I think both sides need some clarification here. Okosh is not being taken in by or promoting this scam. What is being sought is something that actually violated the letter of the law down under. Unlike the U.S., other countries and jurisdictions actually do shut down and prosecute the promoters of deals like this. If we can give Okosh something concrete to take to the authorities that is what is requested.

In the U.S. it is a veritable scammers paradise. The vast majority of scams fly under the radar and are not shut down as the authorities are underfunded and understaffed. Only the biggest scams that make the national news shows are gauranteed to be prosecuted. So, we American scambusters are certainly not thinking along the same lines that those of you from other places are thinking. We are often too quick to conclude that one inquiring about a scam is openly soliciting it or secretly involved.

Now, I am going to request that everyone here be more supportive of one another. We are a community. I also suggest that folks remember we are all adults and though the 2 admins and 2 mods do our best to keep an eye on things it does not always stay as civil as might be desirable. There is no way the site can meet the expectations of everyone involved as it is a very diverse group of people who have very different, goals, backgrounds, experiences and objectives etc. Many of us our very passionate about our
online posting, myself included.

The site should not be judged by a handful of its members actions, but by the overall content and atmosphere of the site itself. Obviously, folks who violate the rules and are a detriment to the site will be banned, but if I banned everyone here who had someone complaining about them there would be virutally no one posting here. So, I will again recommend the ignore poster button. I also suggest folks do keep these upstairs of the forum a little more friendly. A good fight can always be moved to the rant section. That is exactly why we have one.

My best to all our posters here.
Soapboxmom

Quoted for truth.

Thank you SBM for saying an important thing far better than I could. In a way I think I have a bit of an advantage, I've always been a forum junkie but for my first few years online (back when I had time for online games) I pretty much only hung out on game related forums where it was pretty much expected that you'd have arbitrary and frequently pointless animosity for a subset of the forum group. The upshot of this was to view arguments with fellow posters in terms of their entertainment value, if you were enjoying it have at it if not, refute their assumptions or facts then move on.

It bothers me to see some of my old and new friends not always getting along, but it happens and it isn't like there's much I can say about that. I (we) can however ask for a little more civility in the "upstairs" forum. As SBM pointed out we do have a rant forum, if your objection to an individual is personal in nature that's the perfect place to take it. If you disagree with an opinion by all means challenge it, if you question someones facts, that's what we're here for. In short, if you're attacking what a person has said it's very welcome here, if you're attacking the member who posted it, please take it to rants. Thank you.

sage words and I totally agree

Originally Posted by consolidation

sage words and I totally agree

Double Ditto here! Well said Glim

I would like to add another plea to members. PLEASE KEEP YOUR POSTS ON TOPIC. Some of these arguements have totally destroyed threads that are meant to be here to discuss scams. If I came here because I was looking for info on scams on Google and, when I got to the appropriate thread here, found a load of posts by people with off topic ramblings or name calling and attacking and defending each other I would wonder what the hell was going on and why it was called Real Scam.

A lot depends on how you define scam. If you use the narrowest definition it will mean illegal fraudulent. If you use the widest it may simply mean immoral but legal, insofar as you will never earn any money at it, but the product is legal and has value (even if it is not the value that any particular MLM might charge!)

Trivita certain falls into the second category. Their religious "cult" selling and training strategy is shameless, as is that of many many MLMs, legal or not. Their products are overpriced and very few people will ever make any money selling them, and that is without going into the detail of their compensation plan and selling of customer lists.

Whether it is illegal or not will depend on the old chestnut - are they selling enough product to non distributors? I dont know Australian law on the percentages required for an MLM to be legal. Perhaps one of our members from down under could clarify this.

What is almost certain is that, if they continue the way that they have done in the past in the US, they will be guilty of deceptive advertising, at very least. Selling false hope is a sickening way of earning a living. If they are selling customer lists of non-existent customers, they must surely run foul of the law.

Lets hope the Australian authorities keep a beady eye on Trivita's activities in their country and that their stay in Australia is brief

Nice props for realscam on investingideas (Post: #582 RE: TriVita Business Model ):

However, in review of two threads on Trivita at realscam, the discussions were mostly intelligent and documented posts both pro/con TV and its products, but was not conclusive in identifying TV as a scam. It's worth noting that most of those participating in the "con" discussion are known naysayers on other money making opp forums who mostly questioned or were critical of the compensation model, products and regulatory enforcement by the FDA and FTC especially in comparing market opportunity between the US and OZ. I recommend reviewing the threads at realscam to anyone who is interested in TV, for some critical commentary.

Originally Posted by Doc Bunkum

Nice props for realscam on investingideas (Post: #582 RE: TriVita Business Model ):

Ha ha ha ha. Unfortunately, they are trying to use it to legitimatize their scam......not give props to real investigative work by unbiased individuals.

http://www.bbb.org/central-northern-western-arizona/business-reviews/vitamins-and-food-supplements/trivita-inc-in-scottsdale-az-15002905/

TriVita.Inc members are reporting they have received the following email from TriVita CEO, Michael R Ellison:

Originally Posted by Michael R Ellison

“I am pleased to announce we have reached a resolution and a settlement agreement of a private and confidential investigation by the FTC over the past 15 months.

The investigation focused on the claims being made for Nopalea by the ITBOs, external call centers and the company. We were given the option to defend ALL claims made by ALL parties with our supporting science through litigating against the federal agency or to settle in a consent agreement.

We were able to reach a settlement agreement that would bring an end to the investigation and the legal expenses and to ensure the outcome for Trivita to continue to go forward in its mission of helping people experience greater wellness.

The settlement agreement while written in legalese has four major considerations:

1. No admission of harmful or wrongful doing.
2. No health claims to be made by all parties for Nopalea without additional Clinical Studies to support the claims.
3. Nopalea will continue to be sold for those who desire its health benefits.
4. Trivita will pay a 3.5 million dollar settlement fee.

All parties subject to the agreement in representing Nopalea must read and acknowledge they have seen the agreement and to ensure the claims are restricted to the points of the agreement.

You will find the agreement posted in your Back Office for both your reading and acknowledgement signature. Your signature is required by the FTC within ten days. Clicking the appropriate box after reviewing the agreement, will constitute your signature electronically. If Trivita does not receive your signature within ten days your compensation will be withheld and accrued until signature is completed. Please go to your back-office to read and acknowledge receipt of the settlement agreement and click where appropriate to give us your acknowledgement.

Again I am pleased for the favorable outcome for our company and to have the opportunity to make the improvements where needed as revealed by the very intense investigation but also to continue to offer the strengths of the quality products we represent and the health benefits they offer our customers.

While the company is committed to wellness for all people, we will also remain vigilant to ensure that none of our products is misrepresented in any way. We are in an important and exciting business; there is no need to exaggerate or over-promise any product and we will work hard to make sure that this does not happen.

I believe Trivita will be a stronger company and will look back on this time as an important phase of our development as a company committed to the mission of wellness in a highly regulated business environment which we recognize and respect.

Please go to your back office and complete the process.
Sincerely,

Michael R. Ellison
CEO
TriVita, Inc.

(bolding added by poster)

OzSoapbox over on his BehindMLM blog has the "FTC vs Trivita Inc, an Arizona Corporation; Ellison Media Company, and Arizona Corporation; Michael R Ellison, individually and as an officer of Trivita Inc; and Susan R Ellison, individually and as an officer of Trivita Inc" story featured in an article entitled Trivita fined $3.5 million for bogus Nopalea health claims

The outcome of the FTC action makes interesting reading when it's stripped of company spin doctoring,

Mlm, a corrupt system, selling bogus products. All makes sense now.

Judging by the recently released FTC Press release someone in the FTC press department has a good sense of humour:

FTC blog